Talk:Charlie Brown/Archive 1

Charlie Brown based on historical character?
I've heard tales that Charlie Brown is based on a real historical character (a loser, indeed, a young organized crime gangster). The tale involves Blackwater USA-style paramilitary security services out of St. Louis, Missouri, that were operated by the Teamsters. A friend of mine has a picture of his grandfather wearing a Charlie-Brown-style sweater in honor of his long dead partner-in-crime named Charlie Brown while he's receiving his retirement watch from Jimmy Hoffa (at the end of his grandfather's career, events with Charlie Brown being at the beginning of his career). This Charlie Brown was killed in a shoot-out outside of St. Louis, and my friend's grandfather was Charlie Brown's partner who married Charlie's 19-year-old wife after his death and raised what is thought by some to be Charlie Brown's son, my friend's father (the grandfather had other children also by Charlie Brown's widow). I wish I could use real names, but the grandfather changed the family name for purposes of hiding and going "underground".

My friend is looking to have genetic tests done to compare his Y chromosome to the Y chromosome of another uncle in an attempt to determine if he is Charlie Brown's issue. Can anyone else substantiate this tale which would have taken place sometime in the 1930s or 1940s? Jizzbug (talk) 18:58, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Charlie Brown and Kicking the Football
The article (as it stands now) states that Charlie Brown kicked the football *one* time. Can someone give an exact reference? Schulz remarked in his 60 Minutes interview that Charlie Brown had never kicked it (when Lucy held it for him.)

According to Derrick Bang's fabulous "Peanuts FAQ",, Lucy never let CB kick the ball in the entire run of the "Peanuts" comic strip. In 1979, after CB had been ill, she did not pull the ball away, but he accidentally kicked her in the hand. Twenty years later, in the final football strip, Lucy is called in to lunch and trusts her brother Rerun to hold the ball. When Rerun comes into the house, Lucy asks him if CB kicked the ball or if he pulled it away. Rerun replies "You'll never know!" Now in the TV special It's Magic, Charlie Brown, CB does kick the ball while he is invisible, but "Peanuts" fans rarely consider the TV specials to be canon. Rockhopper10r 20:02, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well, I don't really think so. When Schulz was asked if he'll let Charlie kick the ball by his final strip, he said something along the line of "Oh no, I could never do that, it would not be fair to him"Vicius 00:36, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

There actually is a strip where Charlie Brown is allowed by Lucy to kick the football. It's when he got out of the hospital. She promised if he got better from his illness, she would even let him "actually kick the football." The opportunity arose, but he accidentally kicked Lucy's fingers instead. This is from a comic strip in the late 60s/early 70s. I'll work on a proper citation.

Charlie Brown's Homerun
From what I could find, Charlie Brown only hit one home run, on March 30, 1993. I have changed the article to reflet this. Does anyone have any information regarding the second home run the article used to refer to? I think the previous editor may have been confused by this time line where the home run is refered to as his "first". -- TomPreuss 13:41, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * Shortly after his first home run, Charlie Brown scored another one off the same pitcher. Later, the pitcher admitted she let him hit both home runs because she thought he looked cute.

Charlie Brown's second home run was hit in a three-day series from June 29 - July 1, 1993, off of the same pitcher. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.91.126.246 (talk) 13:37, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Fresh Prince?
Is the sentence referencing The Fresh Prince of Bel Air really necessary? --Frank Burdett 15:20, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * No. --Paul A 00:53, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Name Charlie is called by
Should we mention that when his mother is "heard" calling him in an early strip, it reads "Charlie! Charlie Brown!"? If no-one else does, at least she calls him Charlie. Aliter 17:27, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * That's true, but that seems to be the only time he ever is called "Charlie" (except in Lucy's "Look, Charlie, we all know Christmas is a big commercial racket." comment in A Charlie Brown Christmas). I remember a strip from the late '50s where CB asks his mother a question and she responds calling him "dear". rockhopper10r 00:12, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Can't recall ever seeing that one. Can you recall what it was about? Aliter 18:27, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * CB is writing to his "Pencil-Pal" about what he got for Christmas (I think--it may have been his birthday) and asks his mother how many gs are in the word "goggles". She replies "two, dear". In the last panel, CB writes that he received "ggogles".rockhopper10r 21:36, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It was Christmas. It was the Jan. 26, 1959 strip. Page 12 of The Complete Peanuts 1959-1960. Enki Nabu (talk) 06:04, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Good grief! I read it, but I didn't notice. (Christmas) I expect few people would use a first name at that point in such a conversation, though. But we could leave it at a mention of the time she did use a name. Aliter 18:10, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Also I remember one or two strips where Schulz slips and has his sister Sally call him Charlie Brown. Mostly she calls him Big Brother, which I suppose is amusing if you're an Orwell fan.
 * I believe Sally calling her brother "Charlie Brown" occurs fairly early on, when Sally is very little ("Can you bring me an ice cream cone too, Charlie Brown?" leaps to mind). I think Schulz thought a member of CB's own family addressing him by his full name sounded awkward, so Sally went to calling him as "Big Brother" from about the mid-'60s on. Rockhopper10r 19:16, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I believe it was in "Merry Christmas, Charlie Brown" that Violet said to him "Of all the Charlie Browns, you're the Charlie Browniest!" 10:50 PST, June 6, 2007

Parents
Mrs. Brown does not get very many mentions in the comic, but occasionally her name does come up. For instance, when Mrs. van Pelt gets a tangerine pool table, we learn that Mrs. Brown usually makes Charlie Brown a brown bag lunch, that she now goes to play pool at the Van Pelts every morning, and that, according to Linus, she's the only mother who can put back-spin on the cue ball. Aliter 17:27, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I've now found a strip where Charlie writes to his pencil-pal: "My dad is a barber". My mother is a housewife." I guess that makes the parents' roles a bit more certain than the current "His father is said to be a barber." suggests. Aliter 18:27, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Goodness, yes. There's a series of strips going on for probably a week where Charlie Brown gets nasty when Schroeder says his Dad is thinking of cutting the family's hair himself because the price of haircuts is going up. Charlie Brown's father is definitely a barber.

Peggy Jean & the little red-haired girl
I thought Peggy Jean was the same as the little red-haired girl. IIRC, she had red hair in the Sunday strips. I felt heartened that Charlie Brown had worked up the courage to meet her, that she was shown "on stage", and that she displayed an interest in him rather than obliviousness to his existence. But this article seems to say they are separate characters. Say it ain't so! LeoO3 04:51, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The Little Red-Haired Girl continued as an unseen character long after Peggy Jean appeared. LRHG also was still only referred to as "The Little Red-Haired Girl" throughout the run of the strip. The only time we came close to seeing her (the infamous TV special notwithstanding), was in 1998 or 1999, when LRHG is seen in silhouette only. Peggy Jean reappeared in the final year of "Peanuts" at summer camp when she told "Brownie Charles" that she had a new boyfriend. Rockhopper10r 17:55, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Movie References
I removed the fact about 21st Century movie references from the Trivia section. Hope no one minds, I thought it wasn't important, as Charlie Brown has been referenced hundreds of thousands of times, in every form of media.

The Little Red-Haired Girl's Name
Although the TV special It's Your First Kiss, Charlie Brown shows the Little Red-Haired Girl on camera and calls her Heather, this was not considered canonical by Charles Schulz and is not her "official" name.  Rockhopper10r 01:12, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Dear Pencil Pal
Actually there is a strip in which Charlie Brown reads a letter from his Pencil Pal out loud to Lucy. Pencil Pal says something along the lines of, "I read your last letter to friends of mine, and we all agreed that you were a fascinating person whom it would be pleasant to know." Charlie Brown startles Lucy with a loud, "HA!"

Birth date footnote
There seems to be a broken link to a footnote that's either been removed or was never added. Birthdate is actually October 2, 1950 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.80.215.182 (talk) 10:47, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * October 2, 1950, was Charlie Brown's first appearance in the strip (and also the first publication of the Peanuts comic strip), but I don't see how it could be considered his birthdate, since he clearly isn't a newborn infant on his first appearance. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 23:59, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Absolute pitch
Was it ever established that CB had absolute/perfect pitch? I recall one strip where Schroeder tells CB that he (Schroeder) has perfect pitch and CB responds "You mean 'a' perfect pitch! Besides, who cares? Baseball season is over!" Schroeder then fumes that he wants to transfer to a new comic strip. So Schroeder, yes, but CB?Rockhopper10r 17:52, 4 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't know, myself. I put the category here because he was listed on a now-deleted page about people with Absolute pitch. If you ask on Talk:Absolute pitch someone there might be able to answer. - Rainwarrior 18:00, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Anyone know any more catch phrases?
Hm? JAF1970 15:33, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

WTF? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.115.149.242 (talk) 11:26, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Recommended merge of Weapon Brown
This is a non-notable character from a locally distributed comic. If the information belongs anywhere, it belongs in the Charlie Brown article as a minor footnote.

Survey

 * Merge --Chris Griswold (  ☎  ☓  ) 12:51, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong delete -  Mike   | trick or treat   13:07, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Weak delete - merge would probably be okay in the form of a brief mention, but as a stand-alone article it's nn and a mess. Karen | Talk | contribs 09:42, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Adults Talking
Quote: "Like all adults in the strip, Charlie Brown's parents are never seen (nor "heard" in speech balloons), ..." This is not completely accurate. Some parents are heard off-panel in Complete Peanuts Vol. 1 A handful of strips feature adults from the legs down speaking. It was during a golf tournament attended by Lucy and they are featured in The Complete Peanuts, Vol. 2.  Jackbox1971 05:22, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Did any of the legs so depicted belong to either of Charlie Brown's parents? If so, then it's probably worth rewriting the sentence.  These appearances are mentioned in passing in the Peanuts article. Karen | Talk | contribs 07:33, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It is not implied that CB's parents are in the crowd of "legs" at Lucy's golf tournament. CB's mother spoke off-panel on a few occasions (once very early on when she is calling her son and later when she helps him spelling a word). Mr Brown never was heard. It should be noted that speech balloons leading off-panel with adults speaking were used intermittently until about the mid-1960s. Rockhopper10r 14:25, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Charlie Brown as a non-loser
Several times in recent months, one or more editors have removed the word "loser" from the expression "lovable loser", describing C.B. instead as a lovable boy or lovable child. I have two objections to this. One, the "loser" designation is an inextricable part of the way the character is conceived and described. The dust jacket to Charlie Brown & Charlie Schulz by Lee Mendelson (1970) describes the book as "The warmhearted biography of a wonderful man (real) and a wonderful boy (almost-as-real) who proved that being a loser could be the biggest success story of all." In 1967 Life Magazine had a cover story titled "Charlie Brown and Snoopy - Winners at Last", a title that makes no sense if Charlie Brown isn't thought of as a loser. Even Schulz himself explained the early evolution of the character by saying, "When I first started Charlie Brown, I didn't know he was going to lose all the time. He certainly wasn't the victim he is now." (Charlie Brown & Charlie Schulz, pg. 35) To try to expunge this aspect of the character from the article is to render it inaccurate, I think. (Also, to characterize Charlie Brown as a competent baseball player is a stretch, to say the least. Yes, he's dedicated, yes, he tries hard, throws hard, and loves the game - but it is well established that as a pitcher he gives up a lot of big hits.) Two, the term "lovable" has a very different connotation without the word "loser" attached to it. Calling Charlie Brown a "lovable child" or "lovable boy" makes him sound like a cute little boy that everyone in the strip treats with love and respect. This, too, is a gross mischaracterization of the strip. Therefore I have reverted the latest edit that seeks to portray the character as a lovable non-loser who plays baseball well. Sorry. Karen | Talk | contribs 10:12, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I understand. Sorry if I caused any inconveinance. Happy New Year! 65.101.86.69 15:12, 7 January 2007 (UTC)65.103.86.6965.101.86.69 15:12, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

One question: If Charlie Brown is a "loser," then does that mean he is a person who fails to do good in many subjects, or a hopeless dork? I know this isn't an encyclopedia that studies psychology, but I just wanted to make sure Charlie Brown wasn't mischaracterized. Cheers! 71.217.236.119 00:06, 20 February 2007 (UTC)65.101.86.69


 * Sorry, I guess I missed that question back in Feb. As the article says, Charlie Brown has such admirable qualities as determination and hope, but he also has his faults, and nothing seems to work out. As the article also says, part of this is down to his own shortcomings, part due to the way people treat him. This does not IMO make him a "hopeless dork", because of his positive qualities. But it seems silly to claim that a character who never managed to kick the football, never won over the Little Red-Haired Girl, pitches for and manages a baseball team that almost always loses its games, badly, gets his kites eaten by a malevolent tree, etc., is somehow not a loser. -- Karen | Talk | contribs 03:52, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. Charlie is a loser in many ways, but he becomes lovable first because of his endeless determination and second because of people's emphaty and relating with his misfortunes. Lovable loser is the exact term, definitely, as we must not forget that Charlie Brown himself is born from and based on many of Schulz painful experiences as a child. Vicius 00:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

The Coasters song
Recently, I've been listening to a song by The Coasters titled "Charlie Brown" that describes a juvenile delinquent who, according to them, is "a clown" who keeps interrupting the song to say "Why is everybody always picking on me?" Can somebody please tell me if the song is directly referring to the character himself? --Nintendo Maximus 02:07, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Although the song is mentioned in both this article and Peanuts in popular culture, from what I've read the song, written by Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller, was based on someone they knew in school, and not the comic strip character. The fact that they have both the same name, came along in the fifties, and have some superfieical resemblance (i.e. complain about getting picked on) results in the two being associated in people's minds, but as far as origins go they're not related. Karen | Talk | contribs 02:18, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Which is why I've deleted the reference to it in this article. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk/cont) 04:34, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Baseball team's record
Just a slight nitpick -- the article first indicates that CB's team has only won 2 times, and both on forfeits. But, later in the article, the March 30, 1993 game-winning home run is discussed (and I, like an earlier writer, also recall a 2nd home run off of the same pitcher).

So maybe we can change the record to something less exact? Other ideas?

A running gag is that the Charlie Brown team loses-but only when Charlie Brown is a active member of his team: for example when Charlie hurt his arm and couldn't pitch-Linus took his place and began striking out the opposing team; another time Charlie and Snoopy were chasing after a high ball-Charlie catches it in his glove-until it falls out and Snoopy catches it-result Snoopy is borne away by the team as a hero and Charlie is a loser as usual! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.83.75.141 (talk) 12:48, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Poochie
The article currently states: It was eventually revealed that the first person to have called him "Charlie Brown" was Poochie, a blonde little girl who played with Snoopy as a pup, and who first appeared in the strip on January 7, 1973. I haven't seen this sequence, but how does this qualify as a revelation? Trying to find out who first called Charles Brown "Charlie Brown" strikes me as being as exciting as finding out who gave Ernie Pantusso the nickname "Coach". --Metropolitan90 (talk) 00:03, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Blockhead, despite...
Under the "Character" section, there used to be the statement: He is often called "blockhead" by Lucy van Pelt, despite his rather round head. The latter clause seems totally unnecessary--"blockhead" is a very old way of calling somebody stupid, and it seems obvious that this has nothing to do with the literal shape of his head. I deleted that clause, but then decided that the first part was a bit awkardly written, so I reworked that as well. This is how I left it: Lucy van Pelt tends to belittle Charlie Brown, often calling him a "blockhead". I apologize if it seems like I'm being a fussbucket over something so small.JMBrust (talk) 11:17, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Age
How was anybody able to find out about what age Charlie Brown is? Marshall T. Williams (talk) 19:31, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * In the 1979 story arc where CB is sick, he tells the nurse (?) checking him into the hospital that he is eight-and-a-half. He presumably did not age appreciably after this. Rockhopper10r (talk) 03:31, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

How the crap is that even possible??????????????????????? Supernova444 (talk) 18:26, 12 May 2011 (UTC)Supernova444

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Voiced rather than Played
In the Portrayals secion, I changed it so that it said "so and so first voiced Charlie Brown" rather than "played Charlie Brown". When I read the article, I was confused, thinking "played" was referring to a live-action adaptation. 216.215.242.92 (talk) 18:15, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia spelling
well, i'm not a native english speaker but, right on top of page, the warning about disambiguation... i think the word persons doesn't exist. it's said people 81.84.218.136 (talk) 20:31, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

difference between drawn cartoon and animated cartoon
In the animated cartoon Charlie Brown never gets a Valentine Day card or Halloween candy along with his cut up costume; however in the daily drawn cartoon-Charlie does get a Valentine card from Violet-despite a monologue from Schroeder and in the Halloween gag-one early cartoon showed that it was Linus-not Charlie-who ends up with a cut up costume and in the daily strip on the "Great Pumpkin" Charlie does get Halloween candy. Although a running gag in the daily cartoon was Charlie never meeting the little red haired girl-in a Peanuts book "Your in Love Charlie Brown" Charlie accidentally reads his mush note to the red haired girl before the whole class and get laughed at-but at the end discovers that she has passed a note to him saying she would like to meet him!