Talk:Charlize Theron/Archive 1

mother/father
Why isn't the fact that Charlize Theron's father was shot by her mother in the article? It certainly is in practically all other worldwide Wikipedia articles on CT. It is also a relevant fact, because there are credible reports that CT was actually present when the shooting occurred. People read articles like this one to get a complete picture of the person in question, and this info is definitely relevant in this regard, no? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.204.153.99 (talk) 13:58, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Esquire Magazine Sexiest Woman Alive?
Currently, this section "personal life" has the statement "Theron is Esquire magazine's 2007 Sexiest Woman Alive, although as of August 21, 2007, this has not been announced." Now, even though i only arrived at her wikipedia page bacuse i had come to the same conclusion, i have a problem with the inclusion of this sentence, especially uncited. For one thing, it may not even be true. Without a citation indicating "inside knowledge" of the selection process, the photo shoots, or the interviews, i can only assume that a confident speculator threw the sentence up there, ruining everyone else's fun in the process. I think a responsible change would be "Theron is believed by many to be..." --Rmbjspd 16:07, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

who cares. she's definitely the most beautiful/elegant/sexy woman alive and i'm sure that's in agreement too. dayammn google me (talk) 04:21, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

African American
Isn't she African American? Shouldn't we note that she's the second African American to win best actress? --Golbez 16:36, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)

she is NOT African American guys. She's a white South African which makes her Caucasian (a lot of South Africa is Caucasian). African-American refers to ancestry - it is a racial group (it is just conventional). There is no doubt she is African, but African-American implies colour. ~Similar to the way we refer to Asians as being not the people of Asia, but rather Orientals, such as Chinese, Japanese, Filipino etc. We usually don't refer to, say, Middle Eastern or Indian people as Asian, even though they are technically from Asia. ~Also similar to the way we refer to US residents as Americans. Although America refers to the whole of two continents (North and South America), the word 'American' implies someone living in the USA. These are common misconceptions which have made their way into everyday convention. Thus, saying that she is African American would just confuse the hell out of people and cause pointless debates over racial identity, even identity crises of celebrities, and we don't want to do that. google me (talk) 04:39, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually in the UK 'Asian' predominantly means South Asian (ie from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh), these terms vary in their use in different parts of the world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.180.199.227 (talk) 15:33, 28 May 2012 (UTC)


 * We should do so only if she has citizenship in the United States. The article currently implies (but does not state) that she has South African citizenship and I'm unsure as to whether the U.S. allows dual citizenship with South Africa (it does not, for example, with the United Kingdom).  In other words, she may not be the second African American to win best actress because she may not be American.  If so, it is probably worth noting, however. --Yamla 16:55, 2005 Feb 8 (UTC)


 * Without trying to stray too far off topic, the US does not object to dual citizenship. Specifically, I am a UK citizen, born and bred in the UK with dual US citizenship. Your statement is dated and no longer correct (I believe the US changed its attitude to dual citizenship in the late 80s).


 * According to google, her citizenship is "pending". --Golbez 17:55, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)


 * Assuming she did not have American citizenship when she won the award, I do not believe we should count her as the second african american to win best actress. As are you, I am slightly concerned that it would lead to a flame war anyway, but hey.  So long as we stay factually accurate.  --Yamla 19:37, 2005 Feb 8 (UTC)
 * After reading African American and discussing it a bit, I withdraw my objection. American English has chosen it prefers having a term where the words don't match the meaning. So be it; wikipedia's job is to use the labels we have. --Golbez 09:04, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)


 * Fair enough, I concur. Obviously, African American, as used in the United States, doesn't actually mean what the words mean.  Instead, it refers to a racial makeup.  Additionally, it looks likely that Charlize was not American, at least not at the time she won the award. --Yamla 16:03, 2005 Feb 9 (UTC)


 * If and when Ms. Theron receives American citizenship, wouldn't she be "Afrikaner American" instead of "African American". Specificity of cultural heritage should always be encouraged. -Acjelen 22:28, 29 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I've heard that Ms. Theron self-identifies as African American. I'm currently looking for a citation. --Llewdor 00:27, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Anyone who denies that she is African American, legally recognized or not, is a colorist. NorthernThunder 16:29, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The definition of African American is an American from African descent. Therefore Ms Theron is African American - if she has American citizenship. --Scotteh 16:16, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Does she have American citizenship? I think she is being slighted because she is White. If she was a Black African, I think no one would question calling her an African-American, even if she was not legally recognized as such. NorthernThunder 18:15, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

What!? I'm rather surprised at the number of people here who would have changed the article to 'African American' simply if she had American citizenship. Having looked over the African American article - and using my prior knowledge, the term African American is a politically-correct way of refering to a black person, or a person of color - clearly Charlize Theron is not black, neither a person of color - she is Caucasian (or white). This is similar to how the word Asian is used to refer to someone that looks like they are Chinese-Japanese-Korean-Etc (or yellow if you like). Caucasian is how we refer to white people. If you read the African American article, it refers to Americans with an African ancestory, just as Caucasians are "White-skinned, of European origin".

Please do not change the article to refer to Charlize Theron as African-American at any point, even if she does receive American citizenship.

Rfwoolf 17:12, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

can i just say 'Rfwoolf' not all black people are amercian so the term african-amercian is not refering to a black person, but a amercian with aficia desent. and another thing you said "neither a person of colour" well white is a skin colour and a race in it's own right so Charlize is a person of colour EVERYONE IS! but yes i think if you put afician amercian on there it might cause some confusion. But if she likes to be self-identified as afician-amercian then we should except that as really she kinder is and amercian with afician desent —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.31.178.60 (talk) 02:05, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * All right, so African American refers to Americans with African descent, in the same way that Asian American refers to Americans of Asiatic descent. To label Charlize Theron as African American would strongly imply that she's black, that her ancestors originated from Africa, that her grandparents' grandparents' grandparents' were born and raised in Africa. None of that is true. If you read African American it will describe over and over again about the black ancestry thing, and here's one particular quote from the article:


 * Since 1977, the United States officially categorized black people (revised to black or African American in 1997) are classified as A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa.
 * As you can see, that certainly doesn't describe Charlize Theron. As for the term 'person of colour', I do appologise if anyone is offended in any way, I am from South africa where the term does not have an offensive meaning, and even according to the US meaning (at here: Colored) it is only offensive depending on its context. It says colored generally refers to "everyone except white people" (at least in the USA). So you are almost correct that everyone is colored, but the term still takes on a meaning of non-white, and Charlize Theron is white.


 * Finally, since there are no references saying that Charlize Theron identifies as African American (I have read many articles on her and interviews and she never says that) we cannot call her that. Even if she did identify herself that way, it would be unfounded unless she has a black person in her bloodline.


 * In closing, nobody is denying that Charlize theron is originally from Africa, and as I am a South African I'm proud of her, South Africa is proud of her, and Africa should be proud of her - to think that an oscar-winning actress can come from South Africa or Africa is fantastic. But make no mistake, she did not come to America as a slave several hundred years ago, she was not previously disadvantaged. I hope this clears things up. Rfwoolf (talk) 06:36, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Personally, to use the term "African-American" simply to refer to black people (and I mean all black people.....whether or not they are even American at all or not....which I see happening all the time.....in the United States......ALL black people are commonly referred to as "African-Americans") is idiotic to say the least. It seems to me that all of these "-American" terms apply to any American from another land of origin regardless their color, except for "African-American." This idiotic oversight and rigidness is the reason I simply refer to people as black and white, etc. These new PC labels, when there really is no logic being used with regard to how they are applied, just show how idiotic they (the labels) really are (and I consider myself to quite liberal). I mean does the term "Administrative Assistant" make you any less a secretary? Not anymore than these dumb labels make you any less what you really are. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.244.30.189 (talk) 01:32, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Surely she is just South African, she was born and raised there. Not everyone who decides to move to the US has their nationality suffixed with American. Look at Kiefer Sutherland and countless other Canadians - or are they Canadian-Americans? Brylaw (talk) 14:40, 17 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Not at all comparable. Sutherland lives in the U.S. but does not hold U.S. citizenship. Theron does. Also "Canadian-American" is a really, really weird term, as hyphenated American identity refers to ethnicity and not necessarily national origin, which is precisely why the article doesn't call her a "South African-America" or worse an African-American. CAVincent (talk) 05:11, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * So how do you explain the very widely used "Italian-American" or "German-American"? Neither are ethnicity descriptors. Roger (talk) 07:23, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Um, in the U.S. they certainly are ethnicity descriptors. All of the Italian-American and German-American people I know were born in the U.S. and if anyone described themselves to me as such I would assume they were simply American citizens using the term to describe their heritage. Where are these terms used, very widely or not, to describe anything else than ethnicity? CAVincent (talk) 19:03, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * German, Italian, Scottish, etc, are definitely not ethnicities, they are nationalities or languages. Can you distinguish, just by how they look, between a German-American and one of British descent? Roger (talk) 19:27, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Of course not. But let me underline in the United States German-American, Italian-American, Scottish-American etc. are unquestionably considered ethnicities. Since you refer to "how they look" I am guessing you are confusing race with ethnicity, but they are not the same. And, yes, in American history German-American were once the object of prejudice from English-Americans, as were Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans and others you couldn't tell apart from looking at them. CAVincent (talk) 20:23, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Surname
No offence intended to anyone regarding the pronunciation. But Theron is a pretty common name around here. If Will Smith said that his surname was pronounced "Smoof", would you amend an article to say that, in English, Smith is correctly pronounced "Smoof"? Ferdinand Pienaar 18:44, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Do you mean that the "pronunciation guide" inserted may be mistaken? If so, then I agree that the information should be removed.  Otherwise, I see no reason for not keeping it.  Assuming it's substanciated, it is somewhat interesting, since it is an unwritten rule of etiquete that the "correct" pronunciation of a name is that adopted by the name's "owner".  Plus, I for one had no idea that she was Afrikaaner (which, of course, affects what would be the "correct" pronounciation of her name), always thought she was of British descent.  Regards, Redux 21:36, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure Theron should be called a French surname either - I mean, originally it is, but it's a pretty common Afrikaans surname too. Joziboy, 26 Feb 2005, 22:15 UTC

Re:African American
hey african americans are black, she isn't black but you could say souyth african-american

She qualifies as the first African to win the Best Actress Oscar then. I agree that the term African-American is a racial term applying to Negroids and visible decendants of that racial type. If you "look black" or, as I like to tell someone that down plays racial appearance, "you'd have been forced to the back of the bus in 1950's Alabama" then you're now called African American.

Ok, she's african, she's american. Don't put your color predujices on me man, she's african american. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.176.153.68 (talk) 21:45, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

1. Freaked out my university when people from South Africa showed up claiming African-American on the paperwork: one person had seven degrees and likely had financial assistance. My university is an activist university that believes no white man should be educated. It turned out the United States military sponsors lots of education and many white men were military, including me, who gained formal university in addition to military education. The impact in that so called multicultural environment of foreigners surrounded by millions of United States natives in the State was not lost. Labels do matter including the informal ones including the African-American label.

2. Any Black person looking for special recognition should understand that after a few generations in North America you are part of North America and the Western World and need to know your United States or Canadian citizenship. There is nothing wrong with pride of heritage, but beware of the labels you use.

3. Charlize Theron is a beautiful African-American from South America with the ability to make any white guy sit up and pay attention. 172.191.36.167 15:30, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Re: "Charlize Theron is a beautiful African-American from South America? with the ability to make any white guy sit up and pay attention." -- No, Charlize Theron is neither African-American, nor South American, nor black. She could be considered: Caucasian, South African American, American, or South African. Get it? Got it? Good! Rfwoolf 17:17, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

African-American clearly means American of African descent. And yes, I'm Black, and proud of it. But if you call me African-American, you're lying to yourself - The best I can do is point to Africa on a map; I - and most Black people - couldn't even tell you what tribe or village I descend from. It's all that political correctness that makes one want to call a Black person African-American, when they've never seen a grain of sand in Africa! I oppose that term for anyone who has never even been to the Continent.

141.154.59.188 11:25, 28 December 2005 (UTC) miyna
 * 172.191.36.167 - She is from South Africa. God, idiot!-- HamedogTalk|@ 14:59, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Your defamatory response, "God, idiot" is a personal attack, and is not in line with Wikipolicy. Even if the person was a troll, or if she was lying, etc, I still find your response inappropriate. Rfwoolf 17:18, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Jesus, you guys, who is the person who said Charlize was an "African American from South America"? lol People in "South America" are Amerindian, not black. Anyway, I would say leave her as being from South Africa, even if she is naturalized American, because it'll create confusion if it's changed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Prophetess mar (talk • contribs).

I would just like to point out that Africa is a continent and that South Africa is a country. If you must label people, please be consistent. People that are wanting to say that she is South African-American, I say to you, then why do we not trace everyone to their exact country in Africa and call them accordingly? No, we combine the continent in which they came with the country in which they reside in now. If you are being consistent and equal, she is African-American. Ace Fool (talk) 04:30, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I have changed it to say she is South African. We all know that African American refers to Black Americans.  That is not negotiable, and people who try to make an issue about White Africans being from Africa is still incorrect, since all White Africans are decendents of immigrants/colonialists.  Belgium, Dutch, Austrian etc.   Thus they get to keep their decendent nationalities.  Most black americans had their ancestories wiped out, thus they can't necessarily point out if they were decendents from say Nigeria or Kenya.  You'd think by 2000 we would be beyond such trivial stuff. MPA 19:32, 20 June 2008 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by MPA (talk • contribs)

Er, I am a white South African, and we do not keep our descendant nationalities. Unlike Americans, we do not place much emphasis on our European heritage. We see ourselves as South Africans, not descendants of the Dutch, British and French colonists who settled here 400 years ago. Charlize Theron is therefore African-American. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.145.121.225 (talk) 16:53, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

As someone who was also born is Africa and is a naturalized citizen I would call charlize african american. The term African american doesn't mean color Malcolm X and the black americans started this to get closer to what they call the homeland. Charlize knows more about Africa than any black american would ever know about and black americans know more about America that Charlize would every know about. The person who knows about africa and has been there, was born there, and speaks the language needs to keep the name "Africa" as part of their identity. Since Africa is a continent with white and black people. What gives black americans the right to tell white Africaans not to call them selves African american you cant take someones identity just because they are not black. You canT compare Asian Americans to black americans bc asian americans can identify with a country, and a culture black Americans identify themselves with a continent not a country (what other group does this), and they identify with american culture. Asians have a strong bond with their ancestry, and asians dont have a slavery history that stretches past 3 continents making it difficult to form an identity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.108.228.13 (talk) 01:07, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

All this conversation is ridiculous. It's incredible how the people of USA are so worried to classify this woman. She's hot, the rest doesn't matter. And to the person that said that south americans are native americans, i just say this, here in Brazil we have the biggest black population outside Africa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.60.103.199 (talk) 17:57, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

relationship to Joffrey Ballet
Many internet sources claim that Theron danced with the Joffrey Ballet; but to my knowledge (as a Joffrey employee) this is untrue. The Wiki now states, probably correctly, that she trained at the Joffrey school. Can anyone confirm this? Snud Swimp
 * This site (http://www.seasonmagazine.com/Profiles/charlize.htm) says so. DocOck 07:03, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

The above site is no better a source than any other online. However, given that the Wiki entry (formerly) stated that Theron danced in the Joffrey Ballet's "Swan Lake", it is patently false. The Joffrey has never produced this ballet in its history. Furthermore, if it is true that Theron danced in the Nutcracker, it can only have been as an overhire - or extra - and not as a company member. As her participation cannot be verified, it too has been deleted. I'd like to see an interview with Theron herself where she is more specific on the subject, but I never have. --Snud Swimp 18:48, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I've come to the conclusion after reading articles on her official site (http://www.charlizetheron.com) that the edit I made on the main page is correct - she did in fact attend the Joffrey Ballet School. On the Sony Pictures website (http://www.sonypictures.co.uk/homevideo/trapped/biolist/bio-CharlizeTheron.html), her biography states that she did dance in The Nutcracker and Swan Lake - but not with the Joffrey Ballet. --Snud Swimp 19:22, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Picture?
Can anyone take the time to upload a picture of her in the article? I don't know how to.
 * Well, that's done now, three times over. JackO&#39;Lantern 07:24, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
 * What has happened to the picture?Fillup 11:07, 30 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The picture was in violation of WP:FUC. It was removed.  --Yamla 15:13, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

U.S. citizen
Does anyone know if she is a naturalized US citizen? I removed the "American models" category because I am certain that she is not.

Theron is a US citizen, as of 2007. She stated so in her recent Vogue interview. See the link on her page for her comments.

She is not a US citizen. If so, indicate it somewhere in the article and put a reference right next to it. I don't see any Vogue magazine interview link where she talk about her naturalization. So please do not write such false information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shady19 (talk • contribs) 15:03, 17 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, holding my breath and assuming good faith here. Yes, she is now a US citizen. Add a fact cite tag if you want and maybe someone will find a decent confirmation, but please do not write such false information. CAVincent (talk) 17:35, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Go ahead and add the fact tag. Then we can do the really hard job of hunting for a source. May I suggest starting with CBS, Digital Spy, Reuters, The Courier-Mail, among other places? Tabercil (talk) 17:45, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Father's death
Some of the magazine interviews cited on Charlize's own website state that her father died in a car accident. So obviously she was giving out a fake story earlier in her career. Anyone know who broke the real story in the MSM? Ellsworth 00:26, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Nationality

 * "Charlize Theron (born August 7, 1975) is an Academy Award-winning Afrikaner actress who was born in South Africa."

Should'n it read, a South African actress? ��Dr.Poison 20:39, 11 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Sigh, it's a long story (just look through the page history). It always was "South African acress", until someone went and changed it to "Boer", which was subsequently changed to "Afrikaner", with the "born in South Africa" part tacked on.  My vote is still for the original, simple "South African acress", since her ethnicity/country of birth doesn't really enter into it.  At best, it can be a note in the introductory paragraphs. dewet|✉ 21:07, 11 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I actually support this. Our good friend User:Alcatel, who really likes pushing this POV, originally changed it to Boer ... I changed it to Afrikaner and it further degenerated after that, which even caused one of my edits to be reverted ... first time that's ever happened to me ... hah ... Elf-friend 07:15, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I thinkit's rediculous putting the words "Afrikaner actress" on a biography in the 21st century. Come on. The word Afrikaner only existed in the years of apartheid. I am sure Charlize cringes at the thought of being called that. Why not just say South African actress. That is what she is. Afrikaners shouldnt still be existing. Might as well put "Nazi actress" on some German womans bio. It's rediculous. Just correct it. PLEASE


 * I agree, she should be called South African, not Afrikaner Jamandell (d69) 15:06, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Absolute nonsense. The statement: The word Afrikaner only existed in the years of apartheid. I am sure Charlize cringes at the thought of being called that. could only be made by someone completely unfamiliar with South Africa, apartheid, and Afrikaners.  To compare the usage of Afrikaner with Nazi is completely offensive (However, this is probably intended - there is plenty of evidence to suggest that, for some reason, making racist or offensive statements about or towards Afrikaners is deemed acceptable by certain people who imagine themselves enlightened).  I suggest the ignorant person who typed this load of unadulterated twaddle should educate him/herself before making such outrageous statements.  Start by reading this book:  http://www.upress.virginia.edu/books/giliomee.html

Then learn to read some Afrikaans, so that you can read the various interviews conducted in Afrikaans with Charlize Theron. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.183.157.160 (talk) 08:09, 4 April 2010 (UTC)


 * LOL "Boer". That term isn't even used anymore, and if it is used, it anyway refers to the male form of farmers, lol. --Scotteh 16:22, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Input from a South African: South Africa is a multi-cultural nation, and within its white/caucasian population alone you could categorise people into various groups such as: Afrikaners, English South Africans, Portugeuse South Africans, Greek South Africans, etc. These only refer to some of their inheritance, or in the case of Afrikaners the language they speak. So that is primarily why it is silly to categorise her as an 'Afrikaner' actress (which would indicate more that she has acted in a lot of Afrikaans things). Also, calling her only Afrikaans (and not South African) would exclude the fact that she's South African, whereas calling her South African, would technically include that she might be Afrikaans, understand? In this case we all need to decide exactly what we want to communicate:


 * Charlize Theron is an Academy Award winning actress

She is South African


 * Charlize Theron is a South African Award winning actress

She is part of the Afrikaans culture


 * Charlize Theron is a South African Award winning actress [...] [...Later in the document...] Charlize Theron speaks fluent Afrikaans, and [and if absolutely necessary] can be considered culturally as an Afrikaans South African.

Rfwoolf 17:31, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

German citizenship application
"She has tried to apply for a German passport because of her mother's German ancestry, but was turned down because she did not have any family members currently residing there."[6]

That doesn't make any sense. In order for Charlize to become a German citizen, her mother needed to be a German citizen at the time of Charlize's birth. Simply having German ancestry is not enough, regardless of whether you have relatives in Germany or not.


 * That's why she didn't get it. And German ancestry can be sufficient if you come from a country were ethnic Germans experience discrimination. --188.97.5.242 (talk) 14:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Hair color
Is Charlize a natural blonde?


 * No, She's a brunette. Saw it on a high school yearbook pic. Don't have the link anymore. Hope someone finds it.
 * A little belated, but she says in this interview regarding her role in In the Valley of Elah where she was a brunette: "That's my natural hair colour. That's me with very little make-up." Tabercil (talk) 16:01, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Huguenots, apparent multilingualism
That her father, Charles Theron, is 'of French Huguenot descent' is fairly irrelevant. The name Theron may bear witness to French Huguenot ancestry, but since the Huguenots arrived in South Africa in the 1670's and 1680's, and integrated wholly into the Afrikaner 'gene-pool', like the Dutch and the Germans and some Scots etc..etc.., it's a common Afrikaans surname, it would make as much sense (and still very little) to say Charlize herself was of French Huguenot descent. I would also fathom to suggest that her mother, Gerda, likewise simply carries/carried a surname of German origin, and that her actual German ancestry is possibly diluted to an equal extent. Also, Charlize has 'varying levels of fluency' in around 30 other African languages and dialects? You'd have to be a rather cunning linguist to even NAME 30 languages and dialects. Somebody's confused Charlize Theron with Charles Berlitz!!! FlyBang 23:21, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I have to agree with the above statement on the over assessment of her linguistic abilities. One further point; the article states that she speaks Xhosa. Surely if she is from Benoni the likelyhood is that she would have learnt Zulu, Tswana or another language. In the Eastern and Western Capes I would agree that she may have learnt Xhosa, but not Benoni. This I think is somewhat inaccurate. Zulu and Xhosa are very similar, anyway.

South African-American or African-American?
I think the former is considerably more precise and is of course verifiable. If there is a reason I am unaware of to use the latter, here would be the place to discuss it. --John 04:47, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Changing back to more formal African-American. Not all African-American are black. Soryy for being politically incorect.71.99.141.217 04:19, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Changing back to the more accurate South African-American. Are you familiar with WP:POINT? It may be worth a read. If you continue to restore this incorrect description you will be at risk of another block. --John 04:27, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Agree with John on this point. African-American is an ethnic group which she most certainly does not belong to, but neither is there a "South African-American" group which is the impression that the hyphen creates. The concept of American ancestry in the form of the Hyphenated American is complex. We only need to describe her nationality here and a fuller description such as South African (naturalized American citizen since 2007). --Deon Steyn 06:28, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * South African American? Yet I guarantee a black "South African American" would be simply "African American" - why do only blacks from that continent have a mortgage on the term? This whole discussion simply points out how absurd this PC term is.70.189.213.149 (talk) 05:57, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Can we just take all of the editors who want to label Theron as African-American and throw them all into pits full of hungry crocodiles? The world would be better off without these morons.CAVincent (talk) 08:25, 5 December 2007 (UTC) Okay, per Rfwoolf comments below, I was out of line on the personal attacks. I hereby replace the hungry crocodiles with flatulent poodles. CAVincent (talk) 03:59, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * CAVincent, please please believe me I strongly agree with the sentiment you expressed, but we shan't be using any form of personal attacks now can we? You didn't specify anybody in particular so that's why it should be okay. Everybody, look up, you'll see this discussion has been broached three times now. Charlize Theron is not African-American, nor will she ever ever ever be. Not when she gets American citizenship, not when she gets dual-citizenship, not when she identifies as African-American, never. South African-American would be problematic because of the hyphen, which leaves us with South African American which is also problematic. At the end of the day she is a South African-born American, or just South African. When her citizenship is verifiable we might consider her just American. Rfwoolf (talk) 11:59, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I am learning more now about how racist this concept of American hyphenization is. Frankly, I always thought that since it was an American-centric issue that it doesn't belong on Wikipedia, at least not as categories. NorthernThunder (talk) 08:48, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Flag icons
I removed the flag icon citing WP:FLAG, a former essay which has fairly recently attained Manual of Style status. After doing it I realised why this was such a good instance of why flags are bad in situations like this; we used to have, but, as Theron was born in 1975, we should really have had , as this was the South African flag at the time of her birth. There are dozens of reasons why supplementing places of birth with little flags is confusing and simplistic, and this, it seems to me, is a really good example of why.

On a completely different note, is this article written in US or Commonwealth English? I express no opinion about which I prefer, but it should certainly be consistent. --John 04:59, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Trivia
Added a short bit about her incessant mixing up of Budapest and Istanbul in an interview, and the mayor's response. Excuse me, Charlize. Gregorik (talk) 19:51, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Filmography
Charlize Theron is not listed in the cast for Ice at the Bottom of the World (2009) in IMDb. Is there are source for this info? If not, it should be removed. Also, IMDb has the release as 2008, not 2009. 2008 is obviously questionable, but may be correct. At least the 2008 date has a source. Davidl9999 (talk) 15:58, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Trivia
According to an article in the Boston Globe, two actors are quoted as saying she has a very foul mouth: http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/articles/2008/03/08/shes_more_than_that/.

Who would have thought? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.72.38.254 (talk) 20:20, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Will Smith was asked during a TV interview with Entertainment Tonight to reveal something most people didn't know about Charlize. He laughed and said that with her mouth she could hold her own with drunken sailors. I'm not able to find the clip to back this up, I remember it only because the interviewer was shocked.75.76.38.32 (talk) 04:40, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Religion
What is her religion ??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.142.59.36 (talk) 23:06, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * She seems to have had a Protestant back-ground. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.170.8 (talk) 12:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Speakers of Afrikaans almost always have a Protestant back-ground. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.182.253.213 (talk) 10:41, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Seems
The injury to the knee or knees seems to be non-existent. Photos show no sign of any such thing. It is odd that Miss Theron would attempt obviously dangerous "back handsprings" if she had an injured knee. Sometimes one knee is said to be involved, sometimes two. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.170.8 (talk) 12:10, 2 June 2009 (UTC) Charlize claims to have stolen bread, but it is not clear that there is any proof of this, apart from her own word. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.170.8 (talk) 10:37, 3 June 2009 (UTC) I suspect that other stories are untrue, as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.170.8 (talk) 14:40, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

French/German descent...
She is Afrikaner, and happens to have a French(Occitan) last name. But I've seen her family tree and it doesn't look like she is solely from French and German descent, only through her paternal line but her afrikaner gene-pool most likely bears a lot of other ethnicities(Dutch/Flemish for instance)... Her 'German' ancestors probably came from Europe when Germany as a country did not yet exist. Why not write she is an Afrikaner... instead of classifying her like some sort of first generation French/German mix. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.144.164.163 (talk) 06:25, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

85.144.164.163 might tell us where the tree is to be found. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.149.117.81 (talk) 15:30, 11 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree that her French and German descent is given undue weight in this article. Practically all Afrikaners are descended from a whole handfull of European ethnicities/nationalities. It would be very remarkable to find one with ancestral roots in only one or two modern European countries. My own father's family tree has roots in 8 different European countries/ethnicities: Ireland, Netherlands, Germany, Scotland, France, England, Sweden and Italy; but has no known relatives in any of those countries. (My mother is a first generation immigrant from the UK) Unless Theron has individually identifiable relatives (such as second/third cousins or whatever) in France and/or Germany it is just not significant enough to be worth mentioning. We don't dig into the ancestry of the average American "WASP" celebrity (which is most likely just as mixed), so why do it with Charlize?


 * As there has been no objection posted here, I did the WP:BOLD thing and deleted it. Roger (talk) 11:40, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I didn't see this posting or I would have responded. If you will look at various articles, we do note the ancestry of the average American "WASP" celebrity, so your rationale is incorrect. Look at Angelina Jolie, Brad Pitt, and any other number of American celebrities. For that matter, heritage is something that is widely included in the majority of actor/celebrity articles, not just American. You also removed the source for the names of her parents. Wildhartlivie (talk) 21:15, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't see any compelling reason either for or against listing Theron's purported French and German ancestry, so I'll let you guys hash that out. I did want to point out that contrary to the above claim, ethnicity of WASP-y type Americans is not routinely included. I certainly don't see it in Brad Pitt's article, and from the dozen or so actors that popped in my head just now it looks about fifty-fifty for Americans of Western European descent (okay, I'm just guessing Bryce Howard, Tobey Maguire et al are Western European gentiles in the absence of any statements to the contrary). CAVincent (talk) 23:54, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I was mistaken about Brad Pitt, though I do think that information was in the article at one time. I went through the list at 100 Top priority actors/filmmakers and find that 83% have information about the cultural heritage of the subject, whenever it was available, which is really the point I'm trying to make. To simply mention someone's cultural heritage isn't giving it undue weight. Wildhartlivie (talk) 05:09, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Merger proposal
The page List of awards and nominations received by Charlize Theron is too short and as a simple list does not have enough substance to it to stand as a separate article. It would be better as a section of this article. Roger (talk) 16:27, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It was part of this article until 2-3 weeks ago when someone spun it off and removed the contents from the main article. I'm not seeing a good reason to not go ahead and return it and make the list page a redirect, so I have done that. Such changes should always be discussed prior to removing large amounts of content in this way. Wildhartlivie (talk) 21:46, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Career: Hancock gross incorrect
The US and international gross for Hancock are wrong. BoxofficeMojo lists them as $228M and $396M respectively. Sounds more like the numbers were pulled after about one week of release. 90.185.141.96 (talk) 12:46, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * According to the Hancock article, that's exactly where those specific numbers came from: "Hancock took top placement at the box office in the United States and Canada, grossing an estimated $107.3 million... Outside of the United States and Canada, Hancock grossed $78.3 million in its opening weekend." I'll correct the numbers to make it clear that it represents the opening weekend totals. Tabercil (talk) 13:02, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

text removed until verified
"Theron later claimed that the photographs had not been intended for publication and had appeared in the magazine against her wishes. She sued the photographer and won the case." The only references to this I can find are rumor-ish blog type postings. It needs some manner of real reference. --Rocksanddirt (talk) 19:53, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

ENGVAR
I think this page needs an explicit statement/tag/something stating clearly that it uses South African English. Roger (talk) 12:07, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Since when do articles get tagged for their variety of English? I can't imagine why we would do so here. --CAVincent (talk) 14:19, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed. One looks at the lead section, sees she is South African... it's a no-brainer. Wildhartlivie (talk) 17:28, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Tell that to the people who insist using US English here. IMHO a disproportionate number of the edits to this article are to fix the engvar. Templates for tagging articles do exist and are used. For a really prime example take a look at the English language article. The template, and this is what it looks like:


 * Roger (talk) 18:09, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Edit wars due to WP:ENGVAR happens all over Wikipedia. Tagging every article like that is just not possible. I don't see why this article would be an exception. Erzsébet Báthory(talk 18:30, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I beg to differ, it is perfectly possible to tag every such article. Its dead easy to do. I wouldn't go so far as to use the term "edit war" as its more often than not simply honest errors by editors unfamiliar with WP:ENGVAR. In my understanding "edit war" implies active dissagreement rather than lack of awareness about rules and policies. Roger (talk) 19:05, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Many articles have a commented out note at the top of the article explaining the language conventions used. This is much less obtrusive than a tag, IMO. Sunray (talk) 19:11, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't see it as a big problem, but Sunray's suggestion for an invisible comment I could certainly live with if it helps. --CAVincent (talk) 02:20, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I've followed Sunray's suggestion and placed an invisible note at the top of the article. I hope it will help to reduce the bothersome number of engvar edits. Roger (talk) 12:03, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Cleaning up the confusion...
Theron has become U.S. citizen, which happens only voluntarily and by one's own choosing. Unless you come up with a cited statement by Theron herself that says something along the lines of "Even though I decided to become American, I still define myself as South African", there is no reason to describe her as South African per WP:BLP. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 06:41, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, you're way off base here. There's nothing in WP:BLP that covers this. It has nothing to do with her issuing such a statement. This is specifically covered by MOS:BIO says "Nationality – 1. In the normal case this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen or national, or was a citizen when the person became notable. " In the case of Charlize Theron, she did not become a US citizen until 2007, and her notability as an actor was established long before then. She won her Academy Award in 2003 and that defines notability. This is exactly how we handle a situation such as this one. Wildhartlivie (talk) 07:01, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright. Point taken. For the record, I disagree with this regulation in the strongest terms possible, but if that's what it says, so be it. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 07:06, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Help - I removed a link
I removed a comment on the pronounciation of Theron's surname because the reference used to sustain it does not! The editor misinterpreted it entirely. However, by deleting it, the references now go from 2 to 4 and reference number 3 shouws as a dead link. Can someone with more experience please fix? --Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia (talk) 10:08, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, actually, the source says "Asked if it bothered her when interviewers and announcers butchered her name, the actress replied that it doesn't anymore, but "in the beginning, it was so frustrating to me because my name is not pronounced 'There-on.' I changed it to 'There-on' because I was told it was more American. So, that was what was frustrating! The fact that I changed it to make it easier, so that people could pronounce it and then people kept going 'There-own.' The way we pronounce it in South Africa is 'Thrown.' "Theron, heron? Very American, but apparently not.""

So the statement just needs a little bit of adjusting to make it match the source. Thanks, Wildhartlivie (talk) 19:55, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

LGBT activist

 * An editor added Theron to the category of LGBT rights activists from South Africa. I reverted it and another editor came in and reverted me, saying "Not getting married is pretty extreme, I think it counts as activism." The problem is that all we have for that is that she once told a TV celebrity show that she and longtime boyfriend Stuart Townsend would not wed until gay marriage is legal in the U.S. Basically, that doesn't mean much, lots and lots of people don't get married and some use that as the reason. It isn't actively working for that end. If we look at the dictionary definition of activism it says "The use of direct, often confrontational action, such as a demonstration or strike, in opposition to or support of a cause." The article doesn't reflect an active involvement in that topic. In comparison, when you compare it to the actual Activist section of her article, she has actively been involved in women's rights organizations and marched for abortion rights, animal rights and involvement in and appearing in anti-fur ads for PETA, and various active involvement in organizations regarding South Africa. That qualifies as actively supporting those causes, vs. a statement in an interview. That is why I don't feel she should be categorized as active in LBGT rights. It's true that there is no wide definition of what that means, but I somehow feel that saying something in an interview isn't the same as actively involving oneself in what is basically a political/rights movement. The article just doesn't support that inclusion. Wildhartlivie (talk) 01:39, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I understand where you're coming from, but you're using The Free Dictionary as a reference? More importantly, if you're going to challenge this, you might as well challenge most of the other people whose respective articles fall into such categories. In other words, maybe your concern would fit better at Category talk:LGBT rights activists. Erpert (let's talk about it) 06:14, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, considering the Free Dictionary takes its definition of activism from The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language. It's not a definition they made up. Meanwhile, because other stuff exists doesn't mean it is appropriately applied here. Offhand, I know that Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt have also made similar comments, but neither are categorized as LGBT activists based on that statement. If others are similarly categorized this way for no more than saying something in an interview and no other activity, it should be removed, but I don't see it as something that needs to be taken to a wikiproject. Wildhartlivie (talk) 06:38, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * A category talk page and a WikiProject are not the same thing. Are you honestly saying you don't see my point? (You don't have to agree with it, but...) Erpert (let's talk about it) 06:59, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I think calling her a LGBT activist on the basis of her saying she won't get married until gay marriage is legal in the U.S., on a talk show, is stretching the definition beyond breaking point.  It's vastly different to her other areas of activism - she's marched for abortion rights, she's an active member of PETA, her organisation supports soccer in South Africa, hand in hand with the aim of  putting a "spotlight on the urgent need to provide sustainable health, education and recreational resources to remote areas where HIV/AIDS rates are unacceptably high."   They are all real and measurable contributions.  On the other hand, her comment about marriage seems a little weak.  If she was genuinely a LGBT activist I would expect there to be something a little stronger in her actions.    All I see is that she has made public her support for gay marriage, but not that she has taken any active role.   I think the category was correctly removed, for the reason that it is not supported by article content.   I can see User:Erpert's point about discussion at Category talk:LGBT rights activists.   A similar question was raised there in March 2007, and the discussion is very brief.   Essentially it questions whether there is a difference between LGBT activists and LGBT supporters and comments that some of the "activist" categories are applied to people who seem more to be supporters, than activists.   I think Theron is a similar case.   I have no doubt she's a supporter of LGBT rights, including the right to marry, but whether that extends to activism?  Based on what's been offered so far, I'd say no.   If there is further to add to it, then perhaps she is, and if the article was expanded to include reliably sourced examples of activism, then the category would be appropriate.  Rossrs (talk) 08:10, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Writer
Does this qualify her as a writer? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charlize-theron/south-africa-change-is-po_b_540640.html 72.101.210.2 (talk) 09:45, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Not in the way that you mean. So she wrote one article for an internet site. Does it also make her an author? Including something as an occupation requires that the person be occupied professionally in that capacity. Nope, this doesn't. Wildhartlivie (talk) 10:47, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The "internet site" that you are down-playing is the Huffington Post. It's not like she's writing for charlezetheron.com or ghettonewssitethatpeopledontgoto.com. There are other people on Wikipedia who have been called writers when they've only written 1-5 articles. It's a legitimate question. Nice attempt at being condescending though! 72.101.210.2 (talk) 10:59, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Its an advertorial for her own charity - not a novel. It also appears to be a once-off, so no she's not a "Writer" in the sense of profession or occupation. On this page - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charlize-theron/ - it is explicitly called a blog so its not particularly notable. Roger (talk) 16:10, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Health concerns.
"In July 2009, Theron was diagnosed with a serious virus, thought to be contracted while traveling overseas" Where did she contract the virus? I guess "Overseas" varies depending on where you are from and what "sea" you are talking about. Krokopedia (talk) 14:57, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Changed to "outside the United States" as I couldn't find where she went. Wildhartlivie (talk) 16:53, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Brandon Flowers Music Video
She appears on the music video for the first single of The Killers front man, Brandon Flowers, titled Crossfire­, released July 8, 2010. Why isn't there any mention of it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.52.88.228 (talk) 01:12, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Because nobody has provided a reliable source that says it is so. If you can tell us where you read it, we might be able to include it. Roger (talk) 07:14, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Take your pick: Entertainment Weekly, Billboard or Daily Mail. Or if you don't care for any of those three, check among the results from here. Tabercil (talk) 13:11, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. The only reason I reverted it, as Roger said, was that no one would put up a source. The ones you listed are obviously fine. Nymf hideliho! 14:01, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, now you can put it in. While you're at it you can also mention her role in a tv advert for Sun International. Maybe there should be a subsection for such "minor" appearances.Roger (talk) 08:37, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

In Russian Wikipedia an article is featured. Can somebody translate it to english?
Russian article is much bigger, than an english version. Do somebody want to do a translation? Spqr1945 (talk) 08:14, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Jane Goodall Award
Responsible Activism in Media and Entertainment
 * Jane Goodall Global Leadership Awards 2010
 * C-SPAN (~57min) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.58.238.57 (talk) 06:52, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Study
A careful study of Charlize's ancestors will prove interesting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.148.30.73 (talk) 14:55, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Why is a nonexistent, unpublished, genealogy of interest to this article? Until reliably sourced evidence to the contrary is presented, I believe her ancestry is neither more nor less interesting than that of any other Afrikaner. Roger (talk) 20:55, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * See the article on Peter Hain. He is also a native of Africa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.139.188.112 (talk) 12:21, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, I've read Peter Hain but I still don't see your point. There is no genealogical information about him beyond his parentage in the article. (BTW Most white Kenyans are of British descent.) Theron is a South African by birth and ethnically and culturally she is an Afrikaner. Hain is neither. Please make a clear statement of the point you are hinting at. Innuendo and references to other people with whom she has no known common ancestry is getting us nowhere. Roger (talk) 12:37, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I should have mentioned the Talk pages in the English and Afrikaans articles on Peter Hain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.148.103.129 (talk) 14:15, 10 December 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, I've read both articles and talk pages. I don't see anything on any of the pages that is relevant to this article. Please just state your case clearly and explicitly because I really cannot understand the point you are trying to make with all these oblique references. Roger (talk) 14:26, 10 December 2010 (UTC)


 * The English Wikipedia article on Daniel Theron says that he was "dark". The photo suggests the same. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.148.40.153 (talk) 15:10, 10 December 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, and Charlize is not a natural blonde. I stand by my first post in this thread "Until reliably sourced evidence to the contrary is presented, I believe her ancestry is neither more nor less interesting than that of any other Afrikaner." You have finally revealed yourself to be just another racist troll. I am no longer interested in this conversation. Roger (talk) 15:46, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

See http://ancestry24.com/charlize-theron/
 * See http://ancestry24.com/theron/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.148.33.176 (talk) 15:14, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Playboy!
She did a spread for the inaugural South African issue of Playboy back in about '95. This was her "breakthrough", locally at least. It's well worth a mention.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/charlize-theron-flashed-me-her-boobs-1.121987

ps. A lot of the writing on this page is bordering on plagiarism, straight off this site; http://watt-up.com/j_gallery/Charlize_Theron_1/Charlize_Theron_1.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.121.65.159 (talk) 09:21, 20 February 2011 (UTC)


 * That's not correct, that page has taken content from here - not the other way round. That site is violating WP's terms of use because they are not acknowleging their source as required by the Creative Commons Attribution/Share Alike License

South African-born
She is no longer a South African citizen, so describing her as South African is inaccurate. It is more accurate to describe her as South African-born. MOS:BIO is a guideline, not a policy. Accuracy is most important here. 24.163.38.235 (talk) 02:24, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually she is still a South African citizen. When has dual citizenship, USA and RSA. Becoming a USA citizen does not automatically revoke her RSA citizenship. --NJR_ZA (talk) 07:18, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The 'American' part of her identity needs to be removed, it is the birth nationality that is of essence, you may later introduce that someone has taken foreign citizenship but not in the lead paragraph, Theron is still a South African citizen and has no plans to deny her citizenship, removed.Twobells (talk) 14:05, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Manual of Style on nationality
WP:MOSBIO is quite clear: we use the nationality held at the time the subject became notable. If she became notable as a South African national, then later changes citizenship, she is still described as South African in the lead. No one is ever described using -born:

"3.Context (location, nationality, or ethnicity);
 * 1. In most modern-day cases this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen or national, or was a citizen when the person became notable.
 * 2. Ethnicity or sexuality should not generally be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability."

Yworo (talk) 02:40, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * To any editors who wish to discuss this issue, I repeat: MOS:BIO is a guideline, not a policy. Guidelines do not trump consensus. The issue here is accuracy, not dogmatic adherence to a guideline. And I also repeat: there is no a policy against describing someone as South African-born, especially if it is accurate. 24.163.38.235 (talk) 02:44, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * My opinion. MOSBIO seems to suggest that "South African-born" is inappropriate per point 2. Therefore she should be either "American", "South African" or "South African-American". I would normally favour the latter, but if she indeed no longer holds South African citizenship then the only option which is not misleading is "American". Basa lisk  inspect damage⁄berate 03:13, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * "South African-born" is in no way misleading and in every way accurate, just not a rigid adherence to a guideline so that accuracy can be achieved. 24.163.38.235 (talk) 03:23, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Agree with the above. Anyone with long experience with Wikipedia knows that guidelines are not policies for the simple reason that no guideline can possibly apply to every case, given the infinite variety of human circumstances. Given the specific particularities of this individual case, "South-African-born" seems the most apt and accurate. --Tenebrae (talk) 04:16, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Please review this thread at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biographies/2009 archive. The issue of the construction xxx-born yyy was discussed. It was decided that it should be avoided, and the language ""Previous nationalities and/or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability" was added specifically to discourage this construction. Yworo (talk) 05:15, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Then you should call her simply "American", because that's what she is now. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:33, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * First, naturalization does not require the giving up of previous citizenship. She has not changed from a South African citizen to an American citizen. She is a South African citizen who has added American citizenship. WP:MOSBIO clearly states "the country of which the person is a citizen or national, or was a citizen when the person became notable." Check her credits, she has 12 years of notability as a South African national, and only four since adding American citizenship. Yworo (talk) 05:47, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Nowhere in the article does it say she retained her South African citizenship. And her being South African-born has nothing to do with her notability. She's notable as an actress in American movies. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:53, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Nowhere in the article does it say she gave up her South African citizenship. We in fact do not know. The lead sentence is the nationality of the subject, not the nationality of the works she appears in. From 1995 to 2007, she was a South African actress who appeared in American films. She achieved notability for doing this as a South African. Yworo (talk) 05:56, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * So you can't say she's South African, because you don't know. You do know she's South African born, and you do know she's American. You also know (or should) that you've broken the 3-revert rule. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:59, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * My last edit was not a revert, it was an attempt at a compromise which had not yet been tried. Yworo (talk) 06:01, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It's still edit-warring, and I've reported you for it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:01, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * So becoming an American citizen allows you to simply vanish her 12 years of notability as a South African actress? That's exactly what the wording of WP:MOSBIO was meant to stop people from doing. Yworo (talk) 06:03, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You need to stop edit-warring, and search for consensus here. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:05, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * And you need to stop nationalizing people to your country of preference who achieved notability as a citizen of another county. Try changing all the Irish-born Americans to say they are American if you want to see why WP:MOSBIO says what it does. Yworo (talk) 06:09, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * She's South African born and is American. If you have evidence to the contrary, let's hear it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:12, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It's always been this way, because its not appropriate to "Americanize" someone who achieved notability as a foreign national. Take it up at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biographies - if you're not afraid of being proven wrong about the intent  of WP:MOSBIO.  Yworo (talk) 06:09, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Her notability was due to being an actress in American films, not due to being of South African birth. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:15, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Boy, are you in for a surprise. It ain't that way. I'll let other knowledgeable editors apply the cluestick to the appropriate area of your anatomy. Yworo (talk) 06:26, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Why are you so hung up on this? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:29, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe I'm South African. Yworo (talk) 06:30, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * And maybe I'm from Shangri-La. But I'm more interested in common sense than in "rules"-that-aren't-actually-rules. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:32, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You are really missing the intent and spirit of this one, but I'll be back in a day or two and I expect it will have been explained to you. Yworo (talk) 06:34, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * When the going gets tough, the tough get going. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:37, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

"No one is ever described using -born." Er, yes they are, in many biographical articles. Just to take three examples at random: John Mahoney, Anna Wintour and Jerry Springer. There are countless other examples. Contrary to claims above, it was never decided that this construction should be avoided. Some supported it, some opposed it. And as stated above, taking another nationality does not necessarily mean renouncing your previous nationality. Most people retain dual nationality. So she is probably (unless explicitly proven otherwise) still South African as well as American. Therefore she should probably be described in the lead as "a South African actress who has also taken American nationality" or something similar. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:23, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I have updated the first paragraph to read correctly, wiki readers are confused by the opening paragraph thinking that Theron is of joint South African and American parentage which she is not. I have edited it to read as per the facts, that Theron was born and is of South African nationality who later became a dual national South African and American citizen. This should stop the fight over who 'owns' her.Twobells (talk) 14:18, 4 February 2012 (UTC)