Talk:Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt

added NPOV tag
I don't have time this morning to do much editing, but this is clearly not NPOV with lines like "Reagan fired her after she was able to read and then leak an Education Department policy book containing and demonstrating reprehensible communistic influences.". I will try to run through the article and add "citation needed" Jews this morning.

Jumbled Mess
Hey, fellow Wikipedians. This page is a jumbled mess of speculation, allegations about people and institutes said to have been made by Ms. Iserbyt. It lacks well-formed and cited biographical information. Let's start to clean i up. --Mark Asread 13:56, 17 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mark Asread (talk • contribs)

Iserbyt has been trying to submit corrected information but was rejected for having a 'conflict of interest'. Is that a joke? She is the only one authorized to tell what her bio is.

Notability
I'd say that Ms. Iserbyt probably meets the criteria for notability.

That is true.... anything else is disrespect. Verifiable info:

'''She served as the Senior Policy Advisor in the Office of Educational Research and Improvement (OERI), U.S. Department of Education, during the first term of U.S. President Ronald Reagan, a social worker with the American Red Cross during the Korean War (stationed at  SAC airbases on Guam and in Japan), in the U.S. Dept. of State (Middle Eastern and Soviet Union Affairs), and as Admin. Asst. to Ambassadors Philip Crowe, Republic of South Africa (1959) and to Douglas MacArthur II in Belgium (1961-1963). She was an elected school board member in Camden, Maine 1976-1979, and founded the Maine Conservative Union, an affiliate of the national American Conservative Union, and Guardians of Education for Maine.'''

A quick Google search shows her as widely cited by right-wing and conspiracy-oriented blogs and publications (e.g. infowars.com, dailypaul.com, freerepublic.com) and her YouTube video has been widely disseminated.

She is not right-wing. She is very anti-war. But, WikiPedia seems to favor SUBJECTIVE opinions over facts?

This article is currently a dog's breakfast of opinion, speculation, and unattributed paraphrases,but I think it's worth improving and keeping. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mark Asread (talk • contribs) 14:03, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

HUH? Her articles are her writing and not subject to your opinion. They are factual pieces attributed to her and should be included with her material. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:18D:8700:F4FA:9090:E006:3B60:3337 (talk) 14:43, 12 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I am sure that no WP:RS has served as a written, third party platform for the views / proofs / ideas of Iserbyt, but you can be sure that Iserbyt DOES appear and speak audibly in the many YouTube videos that you seemed to have noted, but not examined in any significant detail, for if you had done so, the missing attributions that you note above could be easily addressed when you convince any WP:RS to transcribe the interview dialog within all or some of those videos, then publish those online as a reference for this biographical subject. Oldspammer (talk) 11:21, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Ms. Iserbyt is very much alive and did capture all the documents she posted in her book. Her stories are first hand accounts. You don't have to agree with the conclusions, but the facts are NOT in dispute. ~ Jane Aitken, media manager for Ms Iserbyt — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:19B:8301:E820:91F0:6C4F:1423:9F5E (talk) 14:20, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Conspiracy Theorist
I've reverted the removal of the term "conspiracy theorist" to describe Ms. Iserbyt. Assuming that the information elsewhere in this article is at least fairly accurate, we must conclude this. By definition, one who believes that (I paraphrase) "jewish powerful cabals at the highest levels of US government... controlled by the Illuminati and Freemasons...with a goal of destroying religions and governments from within, merging the destroyed countries, and bringing about a one world government in their secret control." is a conspiracy theorist. --Mark Asread 13:24, 18 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mark Asread (talk • contribs)
 * No one has a film from the 1700s with audio captured by & attested to by sworn officers of the law of globalist conspirators plotting all of these various witness-attested information. The conspiracy researchers involved only have the witness' writings. So right off the bat, the level of this "proof of conspiracy" will not satisfy the cartoon generation who expected to see this information taught in the very school system said to be under the influence of the conspirators. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&tbm=isch&q=George+Washington+Snyder+Mount+Vernon+October+24%2C+1798+illuminati Examine the image search results from http://www.gutenberg.org/files/29949/29949-h/29949-h.htm then scroll down about 60% then search for Illuminati. By way of illustration, this proves that even US President George Washington had letters referring to this conspiracy that was spreading from Europe.  Iserbyt in accumulated government-published and assorted documentation chronicles the evidence (proof) for her thesis.  The antithesis would be that all the government-published and assorted documentation & periodical writings are deliberately false--how likely is that?  If you examine the text of George Washington, the Illuminati was known to him--and not a conspiracy theory. Iserbyt is elderly and still continues to make testimonials of her witness to various historical events.  The various quotations of Norman Dodd just prior to his death have been transcribed from at least two different interviews conducted in the early 1980s by separate political / historical interviewers / documentary film makers: G. Edward Griffin, and Dr. Stanley Monteith. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&q=Norman+Dodd+comfortably+merge+with+the+Soviet+Union
 * Allegations by one member of US Congress circa 1940 have been entered on the record that Andrew Carnegie and others had as their goals a uniting of the superpowers into a one world Anglo-American empire / government, and Carnegie specifically had been funding these efforts by his various charitable foundations. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&q=Congressional+Record+%22Andrew+Carnegie%22+%22J.+Thorkelson%22+%22Steps+towards+British+Union%22
 * Supposedly, in 1910 an educator named Flexner was funded by the AMA, and Rockefeller monies funneled through the Carnegie foundation for the advancement of education to write a report recommending non-drug treatment medical schools be closed, the remaining schools merge with established universities, and that these universities be funded in part by huge grants provided by the tycoons of the day. While the result improved medical training due to increased funding, it wiped out effectively / virtually all study of non-drug therapy methods (in keeping with Rockefeller's heavy investment in drug & chemical industries & desires for monopoly control of various economic sectors). The US Government & AMA closed / defunded most non-conforming medical schools, battling at one point with the chiropractors to have them also snuffed out of legitimate business. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&q=1910+flexner+report+medical+education+Rockefeller+Carnegie+AMA
 * In 1917 another congressman entered into the US Congressional Record that in 1915 Standard Oil & J.P. Morgan & other interests had manipulated the ownership / control of the largest newspapers to write news that followed the dictates of the elite group. The elite group's immediate goal in 1915 was to influence the public's opinion towards the USA joining in fighting in WWI, a foreign war started in the Balkans where Americans had little or no interests. The various industrialists had multiple goals including war profiteering. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&q=Congressional+Record+1915+Feb+1917+Callaway+J.P.+Morgan+interests+control+influential+newspapers
 * In history books written by esteemed scholar Professor Carroll Quigley, particularly in the thick volume "Tragedy and Hope", Quigley outlines the chronicles of these elite tycoons in pursuit of their plans for an Anglo-American world government, specifically stating what were the roots of this elite network. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&q=carroll+quigley+tragedy+and+hope From this and other historical texts various people have been enlightened including US President Bill Clinton who specifically mentioned Carroll Quigley as his mentor. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&q=carroll+quigley+Bill+Clinton%27s+mentor One of the students of Quigley's work is / was Dr. Stanley Monteith who has tirelessly tried to wake up normal citizenry to the evidence of this elite group's ill-doings, sometimes focusing on the various Rockefeller organizations' questionable involvement in foreign policy formulation, and selection / grooming of Democrat or Republican candidates for presidency.
 * On 17 July 2011 the wording for the opening paragraph
 * She is known for writing the book "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America" that itemizes changes gradually brought into the American public education system that attempt to both eliminate the influences of a child's parents (religion, morals, national patriotism), and mold the child into a member of the proletariat supposedly in preparation for a socialist-collectivist world of the future. She documents the changes (as originating from the plans formulated primarily by the Andrew Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Education, Rockefeller General Education Board), and the psychological methods used to implement and effect the changes.
 * was updated to say that the author Iserbyt did not itemize changes made to the education system, and that she alleged everything. My impression was that Iserbyt quoted directly from documents and newspapers and periodicals in an itemized manner. Upon examination of her PDF "dumbing down book," one finds all sorts of offset indented paragraphs that are direct quotations from these other publications. The end-notes for each book section provide some of the sources if not mentioned in surrounding text. That every single such newspaper and periodical is not available online for double checking is not the fault of Iserbyt.
 * The original article text prior to these washed down changes states that the only supposition made by Iserbyt was in regard to the projected / future socialist-collectivist world planned by these elites.
 * I suggest that unless specific deception is delineated within the PDF as to misquotations, that the wording be reverted back to saying that she itemized / provided evidence rather than the washed down words of alleged or claimed.
 * Nearly 30 thousand hits are returned by Google that associate Rockefeller and Carnegie foundations as being NGOs who directly influenced the formulation / direction of the American education system while being completely unaccountable to the public for any of the negative outcomes like poorer standardized test scores or lower rankings on international listings of scholastic quality, etc. Oldspammer (talk) 10:49, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * What does Google association have to do with actual truth? It only means that nearly 30 thousand times have people tried to find information on whether or not the Rockerfeller and Carnegie Foundations had anything to do with a supposed plot to dumb down the educational system. Entering allegations into the Congressional Record is not proof of anything being true, either. These are both grave mistakes in what the meaning of "verifiable" is. Julierbutler (talk) 23:55, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You must have formed misconceptions about what Google search results are. Such hits do not reflect "prior searches of other individuals" as you say & believe,  but are separate web documents containing the searched keywords.  These hit results may include citations in WP:RS media.


 * When the mainstream media cite government sources for their "fact checking," these include the very individuals--congressmen / women--government representatives--who are the ones privileged to enter the information I referred to above (and not in the article) onto the congressional record. These men & women typically have a staff who research & verify such information like the mainstream press.  These congressional record entries often include citations of the source information.  Statements made on the record are serious, while statements made off the record may be more of a speculative nature.


 * When thousands of web documents (found in Google search results) contain the exact same phrase, then the likelihood is that the authors of those web documents either wrote about what they had witnessed, or had read about, or had heard about from other trusted witnesses that they saw fit to re-publish on-line. The original source documents might possibly include WP:RS.
 * Actual truth might more be represented in Google search hits of independent authors than in the large media organizations who are owned by the tycoon organizations who have been linked to these conspiracies by government document paper trails, and the reporters of such organizations would be in a conflict of interest if they published embarrassing information about their ownership.


 * Google search for "Carnegie" U.S.-Russian cooperation "education" "Soviet Union" excluding iserbyt This listing has several from Carnegie themselves saying that they have been involved in coordinating the American education system with that of the former USSR, a communist country. If you had bothered to check these Google search results, you would have easily "discovered" that the allegations made in the Dumbing Down book were, in fact, proven by the book-cited paper trails. Oldspammer (talk) 10:43, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps I have misconceptions about the precise nature of Google search results, but I am still quite certain that it is you who are confused about the meaning of the term "verifiable." In your retort, I believe that the key is the word "may," which, of course also leaves open the distinct possibility that hit results may not include citations in WP:RS media.
 * You use the same waffle in your point about the reliablilty of statements made into the congressional record. In an article relating to Michael Scanlon having been indicted for bribing Rep. Bob Ney to place comments into the congressional record, Slate magazine answers its own question,"What's in the Congressional Record?" with the sad truth of the matter: "Anything your congressman wants." And then, of course, there was the recent case when Rep. Jon Kyle had to admit that his claim that 90 percent of Planned Parenthood's activities were abortion related was “Not intended to be a factual statement.” I am sure that if I bothered to check, I could come up with many many more such examples of unreliable and untrue statements being read into the congressional record. Please reread these guidelines: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources
 * And finally, it would be nice if you would yourself bother to check the Google search results you cite. What I learned is that the Carnegie Corporation "oversees four main areas that have evolved over time: education, international peace and security, international development and strengthening U.S. democracy." Yes, there was some coordinating of the American education system with that of the former USSR, a communist country. But it is purely conspiratorial to believe that this was a deliberate attempt to "dumb down" the school system. You would need to come up with some solid proof that the USSR's school system was intentionally aimed at this goal, and although there was a great deal of propogandizing and problems that arose in the USSR due to severe suppression and other issues, there is no proof of this outside of accusations made by fearmongers that were far from neutral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Julierbutler (talk • contribs) 04:27, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

What a mess
Structure and content of this article hint at Ms Iserbyt being a joke. Or is she a comedian? Or - gasp - is she serious about what she is talking about? --31.150.3.122 (talk) 08:28, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

It is not a joke.

She worked in the described capacity. She wrote about the educational system and how it was changed during that time. She is still alive and wants her bio corrected. She is the daughter of a Yale Bonesman and is NOT a 'conspiracy theorist'. I am requesting Wiki edit her bio for her AS REQUESTED to at least get her background info correct. If they can't do that they are not much of a reliable resource. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JaneAitken (talk • contribs) 21:47, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Have you got a supporting reference for Yale Bonesman' daughter / grand daughter?

Are you kidding? The author has included it in all her bio materials. Whether it is true or not would be the subject of your personal blog, not whether it should be attributed to her.

The article still says she is alive, so there is no issue with that fact. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 23:03, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

She is alive and angry at what a mess you Wiki freaks have put up here. But she passed on Feb 8 2022 so you won't be upsetting her anymore.

I am sending you information for correction as to the materials she has produced. The subject of which material is NOT whether it's true or not and not up to you to decide. It is for the purpose of correct attribution only. This tells me that if you disagree with someone's work, they can't have it attributed to them? That's like saying they did not write it. And yes, this is how she got her job in the gov't, by being well connected through Yale. She has the catalogue of bonesman members as well which we have linked to in a PDF file sent to WikiPedia so they can correct this bogus page. Otherwise she has requested the whole page be taken down because it misrepresents what she wrote and produced.

Only bonesmen are allowed to have the listing of members.

OTRS edit request
From 2018040210005343.

This is the text that is requested to replace the whole article.

Early life and education
Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt was born in Brooklyn, New York on October 26, 1930. She graduated from Dana Hall Preparatory School in Wellesley, Mass., and Katharine Gibbs Business School in New York City. Iserbyt's father and grandfather were Yale University graduates and members of The Order of Skull and Bones, a secret society at Yale University. [1][2] She married Jan Iserbyt of Belgium in 1964 (deceased 2009) and has two sons, Robert Lieven Iserbyt (1966) and Samuel Thomson Iserbyt (1968). Iserbyt is an American freelance writer who served as the Senior Policy Advisor in the Office of Educational Research and Improvement (OERI), U.S. Department of Education, during the first term of U.S. President Ronald Reagan. Iserbyt also served as a social worker with the American Red Cross during the Korean War (stationed at SAC airbases on Guam and in Japan), in the U.S. Dept. of State (Middle Eastern and Soviet Union Affairs), and as Admin. Asst. to Ambassadors Philip Crowe, Republic of South Africa (1959) and to Douglas MacArthur II in Belgium (1961-1963). She and her husband, Jan, lived in Grenada, West Indies from 1968-1974 where Jan operated a yacht charter business. Upon returning to the United States in 1974, Iserbyt served as an elected school board member in Camden, Maine 1976-1979. Iserbyt also founded the Maine Conservative Union, an affiliate of the national American Conservative Union, and Guardians of Education for Maine.

Once again, as of January 20, 2022 Charlotte Iserbyt is still very much alive, writing and giving live interviews. I am her publicist. Jane Aitken

Publications
She is the author of Back to Basics Reform or OBE Skinnerian International Curriculum, 1985 (58 pages) and The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America, 1999 (700 pages) and the 2011 updated/abridged version. [3]

Back to Basics Reform or OBE Skinnerian International Curriculum,1985, documents her experiences working as Sr. Policy Advisor, U.S. Dept. of Education, where she was privy to past and future plans to restructure American education from traditional academics to values clarification (change from traditional moral values to humanist values) and global workforce training, using tax-funded private education /charter schools without elected boards, and the Skinnerian mastery learning/outcomes-based methodology in conjunction with computers. Her 700-page The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America, 1999, and the updated/abridged version of 2011, contains a chronological record starting in the 1800s, of the "deliberate dumbing down" of not just the USA, but of the world. [4]

Much research in Back to Basics Reform and The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America relates to the expenditure of hundreds of millions of tax dollars a year on non-academic programs geared to changing students attitudes, values, and beliefs from those taught in the home and by the church. Iserbyt, while working for several weeks at the National Institute of Education, U.S. Dept. of Education, uncovered a major tax-exempt foundation project, under the supervision of the late Professor John Goodlad, entitled The Goodlad Study. This project resulted in publication by McGraw Hill Publishers of four books: “Schooling for a Global Age”; “Communities and their Schools”; “Arts and the Schools”, and “Goodlad's A Place Called School”. [5]

The goal of the Goodlad Study, which was made available to all fifty state commissioners of education, was/is to change United States education in order to merge it into the global education system. Iserbyt later came across a federally-funded grant entitled Better Education Skills through Technology (Project BEST). Having served as a local school board member, she was shocked by one page marked CONFIDENTIAL which stated "What we (U.S. Dept. of Education) can control and manipulate at the local level," which listed (to be controlled) selection of members of task force, content of curriculum, etc.Iserbyt leaked the entire grant to Human Events, a D.C. weekly journal, but not before she had removed all other controversial anti-family/anti-American curriculum plans/documents from her office to her apartment. Many of these confidential documents are included in her two books listed above. Iserbyt was subsequently removed from her position in the Department of Education and returned to Maine. Iserbyt considers the Carnegie Corporation as the primary tax-exempt foundation involved in changing the USA from a capitalist economy to a planned economy in the system. In her internet interviews, Iserbyt reads from Carnegie's Conclusions and Recommendations for the Social Studies, 1934, (page 264 in the PDF of her book) which details how education would be used to bring about not only a planned economy for the United States, but also the necessity of, in some cases, the seizing of private property for public use. Iserbyt is also the author of "Soviets in the Classroom... America's Latest Education Fad", 1989, which exposes the U.S.A.- U.S.S.R. Education and Cultural Agreements signed by Presidents Reagan and President Gorbachev, as well as the Carnegie-Soviet Academy of Science Agreement (both negotiated in 1985 and still in effect 2017). [6]

In an interview concerning secret societies and the elite agenda she disclosed that in the early 1980s she had a chance to meet with Norman Dodd [7] [8] who had been the chief investigator for the United States House Select Committee to Investigate Tax-Exempt Foundations and Comparable Organizations commonly known as the B. Carroll Reece Committee. [9][10] In her interviews she quotes Dodd regarding the 'network' of individuals and foundations, including Carnegie, whose goal was/is to bring about world peace by means of war and rapid changes in society. She discusses Dodd's "off-the-record" discussions with the late Rowan Gaither, president of the Ford Foundation, during which Gaither states: "Mr. Dodd, all of us here at the policy making level of the foundation have at one time or another served in the OSS (the Office of Strategic Services, the forerunner of the CIA) or the European Economic Administration, operating under directives from the White House. We operate under those same directives... The substance of the directives under which we operate is that we shall use our grant making power to so alter life in the United States so that we can be comfortably merged with the Soviet Union." — Rowan Gaither, President Ford Foundation - 1953, Norman Dodd - friend of Iserbyt version 2011.

Reply quotebox with inserted reviewer decisions and feedback 20-APR-2018
All that we have stated is true. Just because this person was a poor researcher does not make them untrue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JaneAitken (talk • contribs) 13:33, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Below you will see where text from your request has been quoted with individual advisory messages placed underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please see the enclosed notes for additional information about each request. 0.80em 01:08, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Two contradictory realities need to be dealt with here
There is no doubt that Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt deserves a Facebook page. . There is also little doubt that there are two contradictory views of Iserbyt's work and career: . 1. Heroic conservative chronicler of the vast conspiracy by leftists to destroy American democracy. 2. Ultraconservative crackpot conspiracy theorist alleging leftist/communist subversion of America. Interesting since all the documents she stole and posted support her claims... see AmericanDeception.com . So there is no point in seeing this page revert back and forth. I am going to try to craft a section based on the view that Iserbyte is a right-wing conspiracy theorist. I will attempt to do this in a way that avoids and edit war. . --Chip.berlet (talk) 14:53, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Don't David notMD (talk) 17:37, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

LOL and we all know who Chip Berlet is...

Sooooo...

When are you gonna get to that? Been a couple of months now. MudkipPriest420 (talk) 04:07, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia's very bad reputation is not served by this!
Wikipedia has a bad enough reputation as it is, they should get their serious facts straight. As of January 20, 2022 Charlotte Iserbyt is still very much alive, writing and giving live interviews. I am her publicist. Jane Aitken

That was her last interview on Jan 20, 2022. She passed yesterday, Feb 8, 2022.

Furthermore, I can't get over how much "speculation" and doubt there is over her experiences!

She was only a business school graduate but being the daughter of a BONESMAN, got the job in DC. That alone is proof that they promote their own even over more qualified people. Luckily she was smart and patriotic and exposed the wrongs she saw. But at the very least, it proves what she says about the Yale Bonesmen and how they operate.

All the documents she stole and posted were legit. All the conversations were FIRST HAND, thus they are attributed to HER. She was there in the White House. She is not a liar like Donald Trump. She reports and writes about what she SAW AND HEARD.

Wikipedia is overly verbose and shamefully elitist the way it operates and should be SHUT DOWN for defamation of character. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JaneAitken (talk • contribs) 15:03, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
 * ok  TheTechnician27  (Talk page)  23:36, 20 January 2022 (UTC)