Talk:Charlton Heston/Archive 2

Racist?
The photo on the front from 63 is during the equal cival rites march,yet in Bowling for Columbine,theres an indication that hes anti-multiculturalism.Im interested to know what this mans stance is on race.as ive also noted that he was a staunch Democrat and is now a Republican.


 * When Heston spoke of problems with Civil Rights in that skilfully edited interview he was actually talking about the problems in getting the Civil Rights Act passed in 1964. Just because he later switched parties does not mean he abandoned his belief in equal rights. (Chunda18 20:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC))


 * LOL "skillfully edited." Screw Michael Moore. -Jaardon (talk) 05:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Neither being a Republican, nor being "anti-multiculturalism" is the same as or something that indicates the presence of, racism Twfowler 15:15, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * No, but he did have ties of some kind to the Council of Conservative Citizens, a racist organization; see section #38. Stonemason89 (talk) 19:41, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

The article notes:
 * "Early in his career, he was one of a handful of Hollywood stars to publicly speak out against racism and was active in the civil rights movement."

Any sources that can be cited? I have seen clips on him speaking on CNN and citing Martin Luther King. However, I have been unable to located written public sources.

Leon Spencer, Animis Opibusque Parati 05:09, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


 * A WP:RS does not have to be written - merely published (which includes broadcasting). - Kittybrewster  &#9742;  08:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Heston seemed to take up the cause of the moment. We can all agree today that civil rights movement of the 60's was a very important social issue, but in the 60's many thought it was very controversial. I'm sure many people hated him for the support he gave the civil rights movement. Today many feel that those who support the second ammendment are being marginalized and even demonized. He liked to tilt at windmills? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabio4 (talk • contribs) 05:38, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Multiculturalism is just Cultural Marxism, as is feminism and political correctness. They're just brainwashing devices developed by the Frankfurt School which was started in Germany in 1923.  Heston was not racist, he was anti-communist.  Let's not confuse "pop" political fads like multiculturalism with racism.  71.138.26.220 (talk) 09:28, 6 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The Civil Right Act of 1964 would not have passsed without Republican votes, and was most heavily opposed by Democrats from the south.John Pack Lambert (talk) 23:31, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Photo of Heston
This picture is rather old. Can we find another that doesn't date from the sixties? --Saforrest 00:53, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It is unlikely that we could find another free image of that quality. Arniep 01:20, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I sent a request to Ken Kwok. Ken has taken photos of Heston:

http://www.hollywood.com/photo_gallery/Charlton_Heston/2400531

www.weedhype.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.179.245 (talk) 22:30, 4 March 2013 (UTC) Leon Spencer, Animis Opibusque Parati 05:16, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Birthdate
For the love of God, Heston was born in 1923. I have all his books, I think he knows the right date........


 * Forgive me, but you are a bit naive here about how the old studio system worked. Old-time actors were notorious for providing inaccurate information about their own birthdates. Actors from Humphrey Bogart to Al "Grandpa" Lewis tweaked their birthdates anywhere from a few days to 13 years. Some actors even had their birthdates changed by the studios for PR purposes. Unfortunately, after 60 years, it becomes difficult to change the date back without embarrassment. Without a certified copy of a birth certificate obtained directly from the registrar of the state in question (in other words, not from the actor himself or his representative but directly from the government), I would not accept the word of any old-time actor as to his birthdate. --Charlene.fic 16:22, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Since every other source I find on the internet says 1924 as the year of birth, I have changed it to that date. When he dies, we'll see how old they report him as. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.39.189.36 (talk) 20:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC).

"every other source I find on the internet says 1924" ... the Internet is VERY OFTEN WRONG. I cannot believe someone would be so dumb as to cite "the internet" as a source, when there are so many factual documents accessible these days! Anyone with access to census records can plainly see he was born in 23. His family moved in '30 and he's listed TWICE in the April Census, both putting his age as born 1923. UnderPressure (talk) 05:09, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, but now the article is wrong either way. It is said, that he was born in October 1924, proofed by the reference to the article "MSNBC. Charlson Heston dead at 84.". But if he died in April 2008 with an age of 84, he must have been born in 1923 indeed. (Presumption: October 1923 born, October 1924 one year, October 1925 two, October 1926 three, October 1927 four, October 1928 five, ..., October 2008 eighty-five - so in April 2008 still eighty-four, as MSNBC said) --84.59.199.105 (talk) 07:50, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

It seems the date of his birth (and the various reporting on it) are themselves are matter of note now. The article should explain the contradictory info and that newspapers have reported both ages rather than just report the 1924 birthdate as gospel. Zkzkz (talk) 09:58, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I work at a newspaper and we have access to voter ID records; Heston's ID record lists his birth year as 1924. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.130.191.86 (talk) 19:53, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yet that directly contradicts his birth certificate (see post below) which says he was born 4 October 1923 at 7:55am. Seems nobody really knows, maybe not even Charlton himself, and he ain't talking any more.  --  JackofOz (talk) 04:45, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Trivia sections are the scourge of wikipedia pop-culture articles
WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY just copy out the (already stupid) trivia section on the IMDB and paste it here? It serves no purpose and is almost certainly a copyright violation. If no-one can advise me otherwise in the next few days I will delete the whole section wholesale. Badgerpatrol 01:04, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's a copyvio, so no keep. Tawker 00:51, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Done. As a compromise, I have added an explanatory note to the IMDB link. Badgerpatrol 00:53, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Much of the info in the "Trivia" section was not trivia, such as the names of his children and his tenure as president of SAG. I hope we're not throwing out the baby with the bathwater. -Will Beback 05:28, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


 * My major complaint was not the content (although much of it was naff), but rather the fact that it was ripped off from the IMDB, almost word-for-word. It looked amateurish at best, and at worst was a copyright violation (IMDB material is copyright). I agree that some of it (if verifiable) would enhance the article if it could be added as proper, continuous prose. Cheers, Badgerpatrol 22:06, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * How can we be sure that imdb contributors didnt copy some of the info from Wikipedia? Arniep 16:11, 12 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Ha- Touche! How do you want to prove that however? Assuming it is copyright material- which I think is likely- is it more parsimonious (and legally safest) to assume (given that these 'trivia' sections are the accepted format on IMDB but not ubiquitous on wikipedia) that the material originated here or there? The style is VERY reminiscent of IMDB, as I'm sure we all agree. Also, apart from the copyright issue (which may be debatable, I'm not a lawyer), what's your opinion of the actual format of the section itself? I must confess, I think that these sections are amateurish and silly. I strongly agree that (if verifiable) some of the information could go back into the main article, but only as continuous prose rather than bullet-point text - consisting of such illuminating statements as:

- Prior to starring in The Omega Man, a remake of Vincent Price's film The Last Man On Earth, Heston and Price appeared together in Cecil B. Demille's The Ten Commandments''. - His wife calls him Charlie, but everyone else calls him Chuck. - While they were starring in a play together in 1960, Laurence Olivier told Heston that he had the potential to become the greatest American actor of the century. Although the play received unfavorable notices, Olivier told Heston that he must to learn to forget good notices in order to do better next time. - *His favorite food is Loushka; a Hungarian dish made with noodles, spinach, and chicken broth. - Was nicknamed "Cheston," on his appearance on "Space Ghost: Coast to Coast" (Episode 3.20, "Dam")''

Ahem. If this material originated on wikipedia, then it was contributed by a very poor editor (or, more likely, a very inexperienced one). In any case, these bullet points are a) not continuous text; and b) not verified ('Any unsourced material may be challenged and removed.'). I do not feel that it is a valuable contribution to the article. Equally, I do not feel myself to be knowledgable enough re this subject to separate the wheat from the chaff. I gave prior notice of my intention to delete this section, and received only one assent and no dissenters. If you however feel that reverting to the previous version improves the article (I do not, and I believe that my opinion (re these trivia sections) is shared by other wikipedians, although I accept fully that there are no hard-and-fast rules), or that you have the specialist knowledge to pick out and properly reference the material worth preserving, then please do so! Cheers, Badgerpatrol 21:48, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

The Olivier item has been corrected on the imdb. What Olivier was basically saying to Heston was that in order to improve as an actor it is essential to forget good reviews, and instead look at the bad notices to understand how one can do better next time.

Year of birth
There seems to be a dispute over the year of birth. Does anyone have a hardcopy of one of his memoirs? -Will Beback 21:39, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I have an original copy of "In the Arena", first published in 1995. Heston writes, "In 1933, when I was ten ..." In his book, "The Actor's Life", he mentions turning 35 while shooting "Ben-Hur" in Rome, October, 1958.

That means he was born in 1923!! 58 minus 35 is 23!!! This is from his own journals. He was born in 1923...NO DOUBT. I met him in April 1998 here in OKC.MikeR
 * The sources all say 1924. All we have on 1923 is your word, no actual evidence. Wahkeenah 01:19, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Heston himself said he was born in 1923, I think he knows better than any Internet sources. He was 28 when he made "The Greatest Show On Earth", DeMille probably thought it was better to say he was 27.

Well, but now the article is wrong either way. It is said, that he was born in October 1924, proofed by the reference to the article "MSNBC. Charlson Heston dead at 84.". But if he died in April 2008 with an age of 84, he must have been born in 1923 indeed. (Presumption: October 1923 born, October 1924 one year, October 1925 two, October 1926 three, October 1927 four, October 1928 five, ..., October 2008 eighty-five - so in April 2008 still eighty-four, as MSNBC said) --84.59.199.105 (talk) 10:02, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

The Birth Certificate of Heston was obtained and was published in ASTRODATABANK program: 4 Oct 1923 7.55 am Evanston. You can write to Pat Taglilatelo, director of www.astrodatabank.com and ask for a copy of the BC. User: Isaac Starkman 6 Apr 2008 15.40 UT

Politics
Nothing to add here, but I did just read through the article's "Politics" section and want to congratulate the contributors for creating one of the most objective, non-biased articles I have read on Wiki. The man had a long, interesting career that's difficult to summarize in short soundbites, and this section was not only informative, it didn't try to persuade readers to see the man in any specific light. Good job, you guys! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ladam11 (talk • contribs) 22:00, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Was Heston actually against Nixon and Vietnam as the article says, because according to the Internet Movie Database he attended Richard Nixon's victory celebration in 1972 along with John Wayne, Clint Eastwood and Glenn Ford.

This is not supported by the link which is provided, which only quotes Clooney as saying that Heston deserved whatever was said about him. Corrected. Aretnap 19:12, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It appears that I am four years late in doing this, but 8in this edit I've removed the assertion saying, "He opposed the Vietnam War" from the article. Please see LA Times Wrong On Heston’s Vietnam Position, April 21, 2008 by Bruce Herschensohn regarding this, which says, "... Charlton Heston supported the U.S. Vietnam policy from the Kennedy administration forward. He narrated films of the United States Information Agency in support of U.S. policy in Vietnam from “The Five Cities of June” during the Kennedy Administration, which was nominated for an Academy Award in the short documentary category, through a feature documentary, “Vietnam! Vietnam!” with John Ford as Executive Producer during the Nixon Administration. In addition, Charlton Heston visited our troops in South Vietnam any number of times during those years of the war without publicity." Any subsequent reinsertion of assertions about Heston's views and activities re the Vietnam War should be supported and should probably give this source due weight. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 00:46, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I've reverted this good faith deletion because the deleted material IS cited, and cited from Heston's own statement in his autobiography. If Heston writes in his own book that he opposed the Vietnam war, I suggest that this is a better citation than one from conservative writer/politician Bruce Herschenson.  Heston's opposition to the war was a primary reason he was approached as a possible Democratic senate candidate. Monkeyzpop (talk) 01:40, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Missing Something
Shouldn't something be said about his announcement that he has Alzheimer's Disease? Looking over the talk pages, I realize there was some controversy about that a while back, but shouldn't there at least be a sentence in the article mentioning it?Gershwinrb 06:37, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * There is. Badgerpatrol 15:30, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Whoops, my mistake, didn't see that there. Gershwinrb 05:28, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

This is more of a question. Back in the mid 70's I often received mail from an organization calling itself ZPG (Zero Population Growth) whose concern was that world population was in a headlong plunge toward overwhelming our resouces. If my memory is correct, Charlton Heston was the spokesman for the organization then. Am I correct? Al Gore in his Inconvenient (or Unwelcome)Truth, has sounded the same alarm... which of course would be a very different (and welcome)alliance between the two.

Quotes
How about moving the quotes to wikiquote (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Charlton_Heston) an deleting them here, and then concentrate on Heston and not what he might have said?


 * It's always better to move quotes to Wikiquote. -Will Beback 22:08, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Location of birth?
Here it says St. Helen, Michigan, but imdb.com says Evanston, Illinois. Which is it? Fistful of Questions 04:53, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Just discovered this anonymous IP edit that seemed to have no purpose other than to vandalize and provide false information. Fistful of Questions 01:06, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That was unintentional vandalism - I honestly thought Heston's birthyear was 1924 and corrected it. There seems to be considerable confusion about whether he was born in 1923 or 1924.  Sorry for the misinformation. 18.243.5.40 05:01, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, he was born in Evanston. Some sources have it as Evanston Hospital, but he was actually born at the Evanston Sanitarium, a long-defunct facility that was Evanston's "colored" hospital. At the time, Evanston Hospital would take white or black patients, but barred black doctors from practicing. The Sanitarium had mainly black doctors, but also accepted white or black patients. This is probably insignificant for our article, but the Evanston Historical Society has the records. They were quite proud of their most famous baby.--Dhartung | Talk 05:29, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Did Charlton Heston star in a Movie about an aging Quarterback? Was it called "The Pro"?

David McClellan

It was called "Number One" (1969).Sensei48 (talk) 11:10, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Charlton Heston & ZPG
Back in the 70's I received a lot of mail from an organization calling itself ZPG (Zero Population Growth) whose concern was that world population was rapidly exceeding our resources and needed to be volutarily reigned in as a prefered solution to famine, pestilence, & war. If I remember right, Charlton Heston was the spokesman for the organization and the mail was from him. Am I correct? 4.242.150.44 17:48, 21 March 2007 (UTC) Al (ALTRKR@earthlink.net)

When did he became Charlton?
Charlton is his mother's maiden name...

It is stated at the beginning that he was born John Charles Carter and then got the surname Heston when his mother remarried, but how and when exactly did he became Charlton? I can see no answer to that question in the article. KMA &quot;HF&quot; N 18:24, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

The 1930 U.S. Census shows the Carter family living in Richfield Township, Roscommon County, Michigan. The family is Russell W. (32), Lilla C. (30), Charlton J. (6), and Lilla A. (2 1/2). The census taker recorded the names as they were given by the mother or father, so the family used the name "Charlton" before his parents were divorced. The census also shows that Charlton was born in Illinois and his younger sister was born in Michigan. Both parents were born in Illinois. Chester L. Heston (27), a native of Ohio, is also listed in the 1930 census living as a "Roomer" in the same township and county in Michigan, which only requires 6 pages of the census.Pamarcot52 (talk) 17:27, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Cold dead hands rifle
In the article it states that Heston held up a Sharps rifle. According to the NRA it was a hand made Pennsylvania rifle made by Master rifle maker Cecil Brooks. Here is a link to an NRA article about the rifle maker and the famous Heston quote. http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/CecilBrooks.asp    Wallyyoung 02:54, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Reference to CH in Midnight Oil song
Something minor, but I figured I'd mention it. Midnight Oil's song 'Shipyards of New Zealand' from Red Sails in the Sunset, Charlton Heston is mentioned: Now danger lurks behind the spreader / And Charlton Heston casts the first stone / User interference birthmarks / Clever, not very wise --81.165.171.208 18:40, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

All right already
There is no such word as "alright." The phrase is spelled "all right." Elementary school grammar.


 * There certainly is such a word, just as there is such a word as "ain't". The fact that certain authorities don't like it doesn't make it go away! It's not (currently) generally accepted as Standard English, but that's not to say it never will be. After all, within living memory the style "Downing-street" was widely used. 86.132.137.5 (talk) 04:43, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You have to be joking! This is a commonly-used word.    FranksValli (talk) 05:22, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Also, please, in second references to people, unless there are two or more people with the same last name in the article, the name used should be the last name. Hence, "Gore Vidal" becomes "Vidal," not "Gore." --208.106.59.58 (talk) 18:42, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


 * In addition, there is an example here of what is a misunderstanding of the term "cult" when applied to films, a misunderstanding that crops up repeatedly on Wiki. A "cult film" is one that received little general attention critically and financially at the time of its release but that acquired a usually small but dedicated fan base that (sometimes stubbornly) maintained that the film was misunderstood, underappreciated, or unjustly neglected. Some cult films' appeal remains restricted to just such a self-perpetuating fan base even decades later; others eventually graduate to a more widespread critical and at times financial success.
 * Virtually all of Heston's films after about 1950 were major studio releases; after The Ten Commandments through at least 1980, virtually all of those were A movies. Soylent Green and Omega Man were major movies that attracted quite a bit of critical comment at the time, both positive and negative - not at all "cult" films.
 * Nonetheless, a few of Heston's films might qualify - his little-seen and often-bashed 1970 Julius Caesar has its fans, as does the essentially indie production by his son Frazier of the 1980 The Mountain Men. However, the Heston movie that has the best claim to cult status is 1968's Will Penny, written and directed by Tom Gries. This film was (arguably) Heston;s most successful performance and movie with critics, and it does indeed have an avid fan base that points to it  (and Major Dundee) as probably the first of the revisionist Westerns that became so popular in the 1970s. Sensei48 (talk) 05:26, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Umm.... there is a word "alright". I think you mean "alot" and "a lot". Alright means "okay", as in "I'm alright." –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 05:42, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * As a former English major, I'm going to step in to this debate. "Alright" is a word just as "ain't" is a word, but neither are proper words to use in writing, especially in an encyclopedia article. It is fine to use in an IM chat, but on Wikipedia, "all right" is preferable to "alright." All right? :) --Gloriamarie (talk) 06:06, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, well they need to make it a proper word already... Alright looks like a word in it's own right that has come from all and right and means "okay" or signifies agreement, wheras "all right" looks stupid (in my opinion) and holds onto the old meaning of "all is well".98.18.28.16 (talk) 20:12, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That's what we need -- some New Traditions around here? Please use Standard English until non-standard English is accepted by authorities on language.  72.179.53.2 (talk) 14:43, 4 October 2012 (UTC) Eric
 * The answers were all right, each and every one. The teacher finally felt the kids were alright. --Dhartung | Talk 02:21, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, Dhartung, that's what I was taught in school, by English teachers, and I've seen it in use everywhere my entire life. This is just silly. I wonder where (or if) the English major got her degree.--Josta59 (talk) 21:25, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Until I read this section, I firmly believed that "alright" was grammatically proper. However, rather than cling uncritically to my preconceptions, I--wonder of wonders--actually looked it up. And I was wrong. This is what www.dictionary.com has to say about the matter:
 * "The form alright as a one-word spelling of the phrase all right in all of its senses probably arose by analogy with such words as already and altogether. Although alright is a common spelling in written dialogue and in other types of informal writing, all right is used in more formal, edited writing."

In an enclycopedic article, we should probably opt for more rather than less formality. Cosmic Latte (talk) 00:01, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Geordie Ancestors
In the course of collecting mostly literary material on the North East of England, I have accumulated on the way the following scraps:

CHARLTON HESTON (1924 - 2008)

The star of Ben Hur, El Cid and many other Hollywood epics was born John Charlton Carter (the Heston comes from a step-father). His grandfather was a miner in the Newcastle area working from the age of nine 1890-95 before emigrating to the USA. Heston’s wife Lydia also has North East antecedents, in the Alnwick area. Her maiden name was Clarke.

It appears that Heston stayed in Jesmond (Newcastle)in the 1970s while researching his family history, and shopped in Acorn Road. He showed some facility in using the local speech, it seems. He was guest of honour at the official re-opening of the Theatre Royal, Newcastle in 1988.

If someone has references for any of this, it might be suitable for insertion in the article. I may well have come across information in the Newcastle Evening Chronicle, and will see if I can get some chapter and verse. Charlton, by the way, is a common name in the North East. The Charltons were one of the great Border families.

Bandalore (talk) 06:32, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Source for statement on his civil rights participation
The passage that refers to Heston's statement that was a civil rights activist before it was fashionable has a citation tag on it. I did not write that passage, or place the tag, but I distinctly remember reading a series of excerpted quotes from a book he wrote several years ago in which he said this. I don't recall the name of the book, but the one book by him at Amazon.com is To Be a Man, which is from 2000, which sounds about right to me. Someone who has a copy or could buy or borrow one should be able to use it to source that statement. Nightscream (talk) 10:22, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

A Man for All Seasons
Could you please add that film to Charlton Heston's filmography? I see it is not listed even though it is a separate article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Man_for_All_Seasons_%281988_film%29 Regards, Shelest —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.210.132.91 (talk) 10:46, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

CHARLTON HESTON DID NOT CONSIDER HIMSELF FROM ILLINOIS - HE CONSIDERED HIMSELF FROM MICHIGAN WHERE HE SPENT MOST OF HIS TIME GROWING UP. HIS FAMILY OWNED LARGE SECTIONS OF LAND IN CENTRAL MICHIGAN (LOWER PENINSULA) AND HE CALLED HIMSELF "A BOY FROM MICHIGAN." THE WIKI ARTICLE DOES NOT EVEN SPEAK OF MICHIGAN! POOR JOB, WIKI! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.61.196.89 (talk) 13:14, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

popular culture
None of these seem really like meaningful parts of his overall biography... so I'm copying them here in case someone wants to streamline this into a coherent prose section. --Rividian (talk) 13:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

In the 2001 remake of Planet Of The Apes, Heston had a cameo as General Thade's father, Zaius, ending his only scene with the same line he ended the original movie with "Damn them! Damn them all to hell!"

In the video game "Postal²", there are many allusions to Heston, such as a difficulty level called "Hestonworld" and the "Postal Dude" considering him as "his President".

Spotswoode's voice in the film Team America: World Police is an homage to Heston. The Switchfoot song, Might Have Ben Hur is dedicated to Charlton Heston.

On the sketch comedy show MADtv, Heston was parodied by then-cast member Pat Kilbane.

Heston was parodied by the animated show The Angry Beavers on multiple occasions. The line "Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty apes!" (from Planet of the Apes) was spoken by the show's lead characters Daggett and Norbert in several episodes, and in one episode the two quoted a passage of dialogue from Ben-Hur (1959).

Anglo-Irish band Stump released a single entitled Charlton Heston about his film The Ten Commandments. The song contains the short chorus "They'd always ask us to describe, How Charlton Heston put his vest on" amidst humorous descriptions of scenes from the film.Lyrics to Charlton Heston by Stump

Boston hardcore punk band Slapshot has a song called "Shoot Charlton Heston". It has appeared, amongst others, on their greatest hits album.

Boston ska band Big D And The Kids Table has the lyrics "Let Charlton Heston have his gun, let somebody shoot him just for fun". It appeared on their album Strictly Rude in the song Hell On Earth.

Heston was mentioned in the song "The Idiots Are Taking Over" by the punk rock band NoFX, in the line "And I'm starting to feel a lot like Charlton Heston, stranded on a primate planet."

Heston is referenced in the song "My Favorite Mutiny" by hip-hop group The Coup on their album Pick a Bigger Weapon, and in "In the Music" by The Roots from their album Game Theory (album).

Oklahoma City sports radio station WWLS (AM) "The Sports Animal" features a segment with a man claiming to be Charlton Heston. The segment, which airs during the morning of football games, is called "Charleton Heston's Football Firing Line" and includes Heston giving his top choices for point spread victories. The segment plays on the fact that Heston is a member of the NRA and uses terms like "shotgun blast of the week game".

Removed claims
I removed this claim: "Heston planned to campaign for Lyndon Johnson, but when filming on Major Dundee went over schedule, did not." Someone can re-add it if they can find a citation... I couldn't. --Rividian (talk) 13:48, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I also removed this for the same reason: "Heston saw McCarthyism and racial segregation as helping the cause of Communism worldwide, and opposed both." --Rividian (talk) 13:51, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Why not just put a citation required tag? 67.184.14.87 (talk) 17:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * One had been on each for some time... I looked for a citation on multiple archives and couldn't find one. per WP:V and WP:BLP we should remove questionable stuff, not let it sit there for an indefinite period of time with a tag. --Rividian (talk) 19:37, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

age and birth date
I can't edit this, but Heston was born in 1923 and died at 84 not 83.(76.178.68.210 (talk) 15:12, 6 April 2008 (UTC))


 * The Internet Movie Database entry says October 4, 1924, The New York Times article agrees and states his age as 83 however a Google News search shows other media sources asserting 1923 age 84 and 1924 age 83. At appears multiple "reliable" sources disagree. – Conrad T. Pino (talk) 15:37, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I was going to write something similar. According to LexisNexis, 9 sources say that he was born on 4 October 1924. Then again, another 4 sources say that he was born on 4 October 1923! 168 sources then say that he died at age 83! But then, wait, another 238 sources say that he died at age 84! Strike the last sentence. Some were false positives. I set the search engine to only record dates on or after 5 April 2008. 3 sources now say he died at age 83. Another 54 say that he died at age 84.


 * This is totally bizarre, and I'm not sure what Wikipedia policy says we should do in cases like this. Do we go with the higher number of reliable sources? If that's the case, he died at age 84 according to the higher number of reliable sources. What do others think we should do? J Readings (talk) 15:43, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Until we are certain of which is the correct date? Wikipedia usually puts both dates in the article. In the Heston case? October 4, 1923/1924. -- GoodDay (talk) 15:50, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


 * "The Internet Movie Database entry says October 4, 1924,"

As a frequent and cited reliable editor of IMDB, if that counts for anything, I can assure you that at the time of Mr. Heston's death the matter of correcting his birthday was under revue by the site administrators. It's too bad the bureaucracy of the site kept the info from getting changed before every freaking news source, including TCM, used the erroneous 1924 date. FYI, the official statement from his FAMILY said 84 death. UnderPressure (talk) 06:10, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Filmography
There was no reason to split the filmography into its own article. It is 113 films - not more, no less. It's no so long it can't be in this article, it won't get any longer. Please restore, it is better to have a list of films here than force the user to click through to a new page. 96.231.161.184 (talk) 22:51, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No, it is a much better idea to split it into a separate article. There were 113 films; that is a high number, when compared to the Ronald Reagan filmography and Arnold Schwarzenegger filmography, yet those were split so that they do not clog up the pages, just as this was. Here is a list of filmographis that have been split off. --Happyme22 (talk) 22:59, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree. And 96.231.161.184, I see you've put an AFD tag on Charlton Heston filmography but you forgot 2 other steps in the AFD process. Please read WP:AFD. --Pixelface (talk) 23:08, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Why do you disagree? This is a perfectly just move. The list the was split off from the main article belong of its length. There is no problem here and certainly no need to nominate it for deletion. Happyme22 (talk) 23:23, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I was disagreeing with 96.231.161.184. Although Happyme22, you might think about writing a short summary for the Filmography section in this article. --Pixelface (talk) 23:24, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * My mistake; I appologize to you Pixelface. --Happyme22 (talk) 23:26, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

IMO it's too short to be a separate article, and not too long to be part of the article. Splitting has its downsides, it forces users to click through when they are looking for really basic info - at the very least the main article should contain a list of his major films. Look at the sub-section Notable Works by Charles Dickens for example how that is done. It also looks silly to have an empty section with only a "Main article" link. 96.231.161.184 (talk) 00:21, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I really don't see how it will "force" a user to do anything; users have the choice to click onto the separate article if they so choose. And there's nothing "silly" about having a section with simply a link underneath it (see here, here, here, here, and here, among many others). Perhaps it would help if I put them films in a table (as I did here). Happyme22 (talk) 01:28, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I've converted the entire list into a table. Happyme22 (talk) 02:22, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * 96.231.161.184, if you could tell us what you would consider his major films, then we could write a short summary for the Filmography section in this article. Also, it looks to me like many of the films are already mentioned in other parts of the article. --Pixelface (talk) 04:12, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

The example from Dickens is pretty clear. It helps users see at a glance the major works in chronological order without reading the entire article, and it fills out the section - otherwise there is no need for a section, except as a placeholder for a main article link it's dumb, it would never pass FA. Yes the major films are discussed in the article, likewise they should be collected in list format in chronological order, not as prose. 96.231.161.184 (talk) 04:38, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Which I have done in a nice table format at the Charlton Heston filmography article. Happyme22 (talk) 04:41, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * There are a few other options which could make things flow better: We could also have the list, or at least the full list, hidden by default. This could include cross-including the 'Charlton Heston filmography' article to make the biography article source shorter, rather than merging it. John Nevard (talk) 09:01, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Charlton Heston grew up in St. Helen, Michigan?
Today the reports of his death indicated that he spent his youth here. There seems to be corroboration on the web. Anybody have an opinion on that? 7&amp;6=thirteen (talk) 18:12, 7 April 2008 (UTC)Stan

"Later"
I undid edits to the intro that claimed he "also" supported conservative politics rather than that he "later" supported them; I restored the "later." The justification for the original removal of "later" was "The statement later advocated implies that his views changed. His civil rights views did not clash with his conservative views." His views did, in fact, change. He switched from Democrat to Republican, as the article already says. A one-time civil rights advocate who later defends "the God fearing, law-abiding, Caucasian, middle- class Protestant...evangelical Christian...rural...admitted heterosexual...gun-owning...NRA-card-carrying, average...male working stiff" has changed indeed. As has a one-time supporter of the Gun Control Act of 1968 who later becomes president of the NRA. Cosmic Latte (talk) 18:25, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * That's your opinion. You need an reliable source to back up your assertion. --Elliskev 18:49, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * See my next note. Cosmic Latte (talk) 19:46, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Monkeyzpop's recent change is fine in that it doesn't contrast support for civil rights with conservatism. It probably needs a citation for the claim that he was initially a liberal Democrat. --Elliskev 19:14, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * User:Monkeyzpop's recent change is fine because it is factually accurate. My earlier change was fine because it was factually accurate. My "reliable source" for my "assertion" was the article itself, i.e., the various sources that it references. If you actually read the article, you will notice that everything I said above is accurate. I won't contest the latest revision, though, because one factually accurate statement is as factually accurate as another, and I'm not about to compare apples with apples in terms of their appleness. Cosmic Latte (talk) 19:46, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

By the way, the civil rights movement was a discrete event in American history. The article never made the vague and sweeping claim that Heston "supported civil rights." Most people support some notion of "civil rights" for someone. The claim that Heston supported the civil rights movement, which occurred in the past, and then, later supported conservative politics is absolutely accurate. Cosmic Latte (talk) 19:55, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I thought you were fine with the change. Who are you arguing with? --Elliskev 19:57, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm fine with the change; I simply had an afterthought that might be of interest to anyone reviewing/questioning the matter in the future. I also changed the wikilink in the intro so that it points toward the specific civil rights movement in question. So, no matter what the rest of the intro says, it should be somewhat less likely that anyone else will get the idea that it's saying, "he supported 'civil rights,' but..." Cosmic Latte (talk) 22:35, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Heston's Sherlock Holmes was co-starred with Richard Johnson not Jeremy Brett
Just a correction of a factual error in your narrative of Heston's filmography: Charlton Heston played Sherlock Holmes in the "Crucifer of Blood", but was accompanied by Richard Johnson as Dr. Watson, not Jeremy Brett (who did indeed go on to star as Holmes himself). Richard Johnson also co-starred with Heston in "Treasure Island", playing Squire Trelawney to Heston's Long John Silver; a young Christian Bale also co-starred in "Treasure Island" as Jim Hawkins, as did Julian Glover, Oliver Reed, and Christopher Lee, among others. Clive Wood and Steven Mackintosh also played in both films.

They are both very fun movies, and I was particularly impressed with Heston's physical endurance in Treasure Island, being about 70 during filming, and very realistically doing the peg-leg routine with his real leg folded up and cinched to his rear, and him climbing, rope-crawling, and running around on that---even pushing himself up onto his crutch with one hand in the negotiating scene at the blockhouse. I hope I'm in that good of physical shape in 30 more years!

I also though I read in one of Heston's bio's that he did, in fact, injure his hip or leg in filming one of his westerns---maybe by his horse landing on it wrong. I can't recall now, maybe it was one filmed in the 1960's, but I thought I heard him refer to it in a much later interview that explained why he finally had to have that hip replaced. We moved a few months ago and all my books are in storage right now. Someone should check it out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.194.48.212 (talk) 21:00, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It's not a factual error. In the article, it states that Heston played Holmes and Jeremy Brett played Watson ON STAGE.  Here's a photo of the two of them in that play. http://www.sherlock-holmes.org.uk/world/jbrett.php

Monkeyzpop (talk) 08:12, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I am truly sorry. I think it's fascinating that these two brilliant actors shared the stage together, and thank you for the link to the photo and article.  I should have scrutinized the article's text more closely.  I guess it threw me that an insert of some more of his stage activity was squeezed inbetween a large section on his film and TV work, and I had the movie in mind that they filmed in 1991 with Richard Johnson as Holmes.  Might the text about Heston and Brett be better in the previous section of the article about Heston's stage activities? 74.194.48.212 (talk) 22:08, 8 April 2008 (UTC) mluklu7

Heston described himself as a "peanut butter addict"
Mr. Heston described himself as a "peanut butter addict" in a filmed interview, circa 1980-1985 time period. It was shown on TV and was filmed in his home. I wish I could provide more than that, but am mentioning it here to see if anyone els knows more about this. I distinctly remember it because I have been using that quote for probably 25 years---I also am a "peanut butter addict".

(I'm sorry my comments are rather amateurish at this point---I've never done this before---I even forgot to sign my username on my previous comment about Heston's co-star being Richard Johnson and not Jeremy Brett.)

Mluklu7 (talk) 21:37, 7 April 2008 (UTC)mluklu7


 * No need to appologize; everyone's comments are welcome. I found this regarding peanut butter. I'd classify it as largely being trivial, but I suppose a mention could be made somewhere (this article is going to be bogged down over the next few days, possibly weeks, because he just died; consider adding something about it after that). Best, Happyme22 (talk) 23:23, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Heston's "Major Benson" was the 1950's version of Wayans' "Major Payne"
The cute 1955 comedy "The Private War of Major Benson", starring Charlton Heston, was the early version of the 1995 comedy "Major Payne" starring Damon Wayans. The main tribute to the earlier movie is seen in Major Payne's full name (which is annunciated clearly) "Major Benson Winifred Payne", and other similarities are seen in things like the basic junior R.O.T.C. plotline, the love interest, and the small boy character who is nicknamed "Tiger".

The Heston film is significant as one of his few purely comedic roles (even though Major Benson is almost the straight-man), and that it shows Heston in a rather ordinary-man situation, with fatherly overtones, rather than the usual epic character.

The Wayans film is much more profanity-laced, but the title character is more reminiscent of a modern drill sergeant or Marine Corps drill instructor. The outrageous statements and mannerisms are hilarious to anyone who has been through basic training, and their ridiculous fictional application to a group of youngsters is incidental.

While both films are very enjoyable, neither may be considered spectacular, but both serve to touch on a couple of age-old cultural themes: boys playing army, and a professional finding himself back to "square one", as it were.

Mluklu7 (talk) 22:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)mluklu7

Unnamed film protested in 1961 is "El Cid"
Can someone add that the unnamed film he protested in 1961 in Oklahoma City was "El Cid." There is a Wiki entry under El Cid (film) that it can be linked to. I don't have an account and I'm not getting one. The page got protected literally five minutes before I could add the information. Also, contrary to some allegedly reputable sources it was NOT the " world premiere" of the film, that occurred in London. It was the premiere of the film in _Oklahoma City_.

12.205.149.45 (talk) 02:14, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

1999 NRA Meeting in Denver
Regarding the Michael Moore interview with Charlton Heston, this particular portion of Moore's "documentary" is heavily edited and even outright falsified for obvious reasons.

The 1999 NRA Meeting in Denver was originally scheduled to occur two weeks after massacre at Columbine High School. As a result of the shootings at the school, the NRA, at significant financial loss, cancelled all event except for the Annual Meeting of Members, which was held only due to legal requirements of the New York Non-Profit Laws under which the NRA is chartered. This meeting was held, and all speeches made were very low-key, and certainly not inflammatory.

Moore's claim that Heston held the Kentucky Rifle over head and said "From my cold, dead hands" at the Denver meeting is a falsehood. The video in the movie that is alleged to show this incident was actually taken in Kansas City the following year. This falsehood was perpetrated by Moore to cast the NRA in an unfavorable light, insinuating that they had held their convention miles away from the massacre, a mere two weeks later.

The fact is that the huge exhibit hall, awards banquets, fundraisers, and all other events were cancelled by the NRA, voluntarily, because they perceived it to the right thing to do. Their financial loss was in the millions of dollars for this decision. The only meeting held in Denver was required by law, and simply could not be cancelled without risking a forfeiture of the NRA's corporate charter by the state of New York. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.215.108.98 (talk) 16:02, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Clooney said, Heston said

 * ''George Clooney joked about [...]   Heston responded by [...]

Is that really appropriate for an encyclopedia article? And if yes, shouldn't we add how Britney Spears and the Dalai Lama commented that exchange?

--Austrian (talk) 23:37, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It's been reported in multiple news articles and recent obituaries, including this and this, among others. It does merit inclusion, in my opinion, but the tone/style in which it is currently presented is not up to standard. Happyme22 (talk) 23:41, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. The tone or style of which it was presented isn’t standard.--DavidD4scnrt (talk) 05:33, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Ben Hur homosexuality...
Does this really belong? This article is a summary. This is very detailed and seems more appropriate for the Ben Hur movie page.

GordonUS (talk) 20:27, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It seems appropriate enough to me. I don't object to its being moved to the Ben-Hur page, but only if the entire reference to Vidal's story is removed.  As it was prior to my edit, only Vidal's famously snarky side was presented.  I think it's not problematic for this page, but don't mind it being removed.  I think as soon as it is, though, someone's going to put back Vidal's version.  About a thousand edits on this article in the past few days, yet today I was the first one to cite Heston's autobiography.  In a matter such as this particular one, it seems the subject's own words on the issue might be worth knowing. Monkeyzpop (talk) 21:57, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Bad Cop Killer source
The current source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080406/ap_on_en_mo/obit_heston) for the cop killer incident doesn't in any way mention it. A correct source is http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CEFD6113AF934A25754C0A964958260. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.137.74 (talk) 05:51, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Hollywood:Omega Man vs Soylent Green
There is an error in this section mixing up the films The Omega Man and Soylent Green. The Omega Man was released in 1971; Soylent Green in 1973. Abogmeister (talk) 08:18, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I made the change, switching the 2 films, The Omega Man and Soylent Green to their correct mentions and years in film history. Abogmeister (talk) 01:39, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Edits from Banned User HC and IPs
1) and all of his sockpuppets are EXPRESSLY banned for life.

2) Be on the look out for any edits from these IP addresses:
 * AOL NetRange: 92.8.0.0 - 92.225.255.255
 * AOL NetRange: 172.128.0.0 - 172.209.255.255
 * AOL NetRange: 195.93.0.0 - 195.93.255.255

Revision To Infobox
I have removed the notation under "Awards" in the Infobox to the Golden Raspberry Awards. Mr. Hall of England had just added the Jean Hersholt Humanitarian Award that Heston received to the SAG, Golden Globe, and Academy Awards already listed - and that further magnified the utterly inappropriate nature of including the GR at that point in the article.

The Golden Raspberry is not an award of the same type or caliber as the others listed, and self-evidently and by its own self-definition is not an award at all. Its presence in the Infobox as an "award" demeans not only those other legitimate awards but also in its puerile and sophomoric nature the integrity of Wikipedia as a legitimate source of information.

If anyone of an irredeemably adolescent frame of mind feels that this information is somehow important in the understanding of Heston's life and notability, then it could probably be added as a text reference in the "Hollywood" section as a note about the actor's later career.

FWIW, I have no especial regard for Heston's work beyond what he clearly did well, and I despise every detail of his politics. But I hate worse POV and ax-grinding posing as information worth noting. Sensei48 (talk) 03:13, 31 May 2008 (UTC)


 * ...which is also why I reverted the Heston/NRA/rifle/"cold dead hands" picture. That brief phase of Heston's 50 year career has virtually nothing to do with his WP:NOTE. This is an article about a man known primarily as an actor. The NRA picture in the Infobox attempts to imply that his notability was as a political figure whose political opinions are worth note. They are not, despite the disease of celebrity permeating American public discourse today. Heston's prominence as a Hollywood figure is the reason that his politics gained notoriety - not vice versa. Sensei48 (talk) 04:34, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Who-What-When rule???
What is this Who-What-When rule that requires dates be at the end of a sentence? I can't find it in the WP manual of style, nor can I find it in any online style manual or even by Googling. Is this really a supportable rule? I ask because its rigid use seems to make every sentence come out quite formulaic and, hence, dully. I'm glad to abide by it if it's a real rule, but it sounds far too inflexible and monotonous a form to make for interesting reading. Reading the newly edited Heston article reminds me now of middle-school book reports in which it's clear the writer had no idea he was allowed to be colorful, individualistic, or varied in the music of his words. Remember what was said about "a foolish consistency".... Monkeyzpop (talk) 05:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * It is a journalistic style or news writing style that makes the reader want to keep reading. People gravitate to people ("who"; Chuck Norman, 23 of Port Arthur, died today) more than anything else, then "what" was the event (an explosion), then "when" did it happen (today), "where" (refinery Lake Charles, LA), "why" (worker was smoking near a broken valve), and finally "how" (gust of wind caught the ashes). I think that user must be taking a JRNL101 class. It is a truism, but I don't think that it is a Wikipedia thing. ~ IP4240207xx (talk) 10:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That makes perfect sense for a lede, and I vaguely recall it from my journalism classes. But EVERY sentence in an article?  It just seems a recipe for boredom, for the reasons I mentioned.  If it's not a rule, then I tend to resist the wholesale rewriting of articles simply to move every date to the end of its sentence.  Monkeyzpop (talk) 17:18, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I've asked the responsible editor, GordonUS, to respond here. He's been making similar changes across other articles. ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 19:45, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * This seems to be an imaginary rule made up by a troublesome editor (take a look at the deleted parts of his talk page). The edit here changes "In the 1950s and 1960s he was one of a handful of Hollywood actors to speak openly against racism and was an active supporter of the Civil Rights Movement" to move the dates to the end of the sentence.  Leading with "In the 1950s and 1960s..." sets the scene for the rest of the sentence for those who know anything at all about U.S. history.  As changed, we read that Heston did thus-and-so in some unknown time-frame, then when we get to the end of the sentence and see that he did these things in the 1950s and 1960s we say to ourselves "ah, that makes it significant", then need to rethink the entire sentence.  --CliffC (talk) 21:34, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Monkeyzpop,

Sometimes its not good to put the dates at the end of sentences and I don't do it for every date but it is what I learned in grammar school. IP4240207xx made an excellent explanation. When we put dates at the beginning of sentences it has some problems such as:

1- It has no meaning. Its just a date. Putting the date at of the end of the sentence succeeds what happens. I started putting the dates at the end because whenever I'd read wiki articles I'd ALWAYS say "Wait, what? When did this happen?" and have to go to the beginning of the sentence to verify. I found myself not remembering dates.

2- It creates an unnecessary stop. Most reader's do not have time and a lot of unnecessary stops adds up and disrupts flow. People tend to skim over the article and when we create unnecessary pauses it prohibits the reader from doing skimming and more often than not they stop reading. I generally can never read a full wikipedia article because of all unnecessary words and pauses.

As for the 1950 to 1960s change in the header, I agree it was probably better before but I didn't really pay attention because I was changing the majority of the dates and just did it in habit. You can change that part back.

Btw, the rule comes from the phrase "Who? What? When? Where? Why?" Think about it. When someone explains an event to you do they tell you "On January 31, Bob was punched in the face." Normally, they say "Bob was punched in the face" and we respond by asking "when, where why" Bob being punched in the face is the action/topic of the sentence and grabs the reader's attention. Btw dates are boring. I have no idea where you got the idea that starting a sentence off with dates makes the article less boring and easier to read.

GordonUS (talk) 22:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Having read your explanation, I now can state that I disagree with virtually every point you've made. It is also clear, both from the explanation and your own personal writing style, that you are operating not on actual rules but on your own personal instincts, which in some cases completely contradict the general rules of English composition and style.  I respectfully suggest that you rethink your actions in the area of compositional style editing on WP.  Dates, however boring to you, actually provide the very first thing a reader needs:  context.  I hope that you will reconsider your inclination to "correct" articles in this manner.  I think rather than helping, it is actually diminishing the quality of the articles.  Again, respectfully.  Monkeyzpop (talk) 03:27, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Do you have a source I can read saying dates need to be at the start of sentences? What are you talking about by context? We need to say "On October 1923, Charleton Heston was born" over "Charleton Heston was born in 1923?" The second sentence does not give context?

GordonUS (talk) 20:51, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The sentences you use as examples are both short. The context is obvious in either.  I'm talking about context when sentences vary in length and do not reveal their context in a glance.  I'm talking about rhythm and flow and variation in writing.  I'm talking about the elegance possible in English composition, which I started teaching in the 1970s.  I may not be the final word on English composition, but I know that a hardheaded insistence that dates come at the end of every sentence leads to boring prose that confuses and dulls the reader's senses.  If you wish to write that way, fine, but I'm asking you not to impose it everywhere you turn on WP.  I doubt my request will have any effect. Monkeyzpop (talk) 21:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I left some dates at the beginning of sentences as its sometimes necessary but in most cases (at least for this article) is better at the end. This follows the process of human thinking. People (at least I do) like to know what happens and when. While it probably "appears" to be boring if one glances over the article, its not boring if you are interested in the subject. Especially, if one glances over an article, revealing a date at the start of sentences is not going to capture their attention. Can you explain why people will have a connection with a random date for a person they are learning about?

Also, when we put the date at the start of sentences with a comma, we force the reader to read the date whereas if we put it at the end of the sentence without a comma, the reader knows its a date and if it has no significance to them they can easily skim over it.

GordonUS (talk) 21:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Whether your dismissal of my points is deliberate, from unwillingness to consider another point of view, or from simple obstinacy, it is clear that nothing I say will have any effect. Do as you will.  I'm wasting my breath. Monkeyzpop (talk) 23:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Per the discussion here, I've reverted the "who-what-where-when" edits. I added back another edit by the same editor, about a "rolled up newspaper". (I think too many quotes can get in the way, but that's another matter). Going forward I urge the editor to bring a more flexible approach to sentence composition. ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 06:07, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Character dates (trivia)
I can't substantiate the claim, and it's probably too trivial to mention in the main article anyway, but Heston has portrayed characters spanning a very wide range of dates, from 1391 BC (Moses) to 3978 AD (Taylor). This may be some kind of record for a single actor. | Loadmaster (talk) 21:59, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

No Man's Land
What is No Man's Land, Evanston, Illinois supposed to mean?173.20.4.42 (talk) 07:13, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Click on the link.Monkeyzpop (talk) 16:38, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

I've changed the birthplace back to No Man's Land, Illinois after doing further citation-hunting and after creating an article for the specific locale. Since Heston, in his cited autobiography, is extremely clear about having been born in No Man's Land rather than Evanston, and since it is equally clear (from other material cited in the new article) that No Man's Land was incorporated into Wilmette, Illinois in 1942, and since it is not at all clear that the specific location of Heston's birth is or ever was in Evanston, it seems to me that Heston's own statements should carry the most weight among sources available. I've carried on a discussion with two editors about this matter, and am taking this action despite the ongoing nature of those discussions, knowing that I will get intelligent and useful comment from them and others and that the information can be changed yet again if better evidence arises. For now, I believe that this edit I have made most accurately describes the location of Heston's birth, and with a new article in place describing No Man's Land, Illinois, any questions that arise from readers can quickly be answered by following the link. Monkeyzpop (talk) 10:57, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

COfCC
What, exactly, was the nature of the relationship between Heston and the Council of Conservative Citizens? There is a photograph of Heston (and George Allen) posing with COfCC leaders here:. Stonemason89 (talk) 19:37, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Michigan?
Heston was born in Illinois, his family mocved to Michigan when he was three. They returned to Il when he was 12, so, he wasn't "raised" in Michigan, like the article, or--UGH!--Michael Moore, say. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.162.46.94 (talk) 15:14, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Does anybody understand this sentence.
In the political activism section it says: 'He claimed to be "native American" to reclaim the term from exclusion to American Indians.'

I don't get it, maybe it is explained better in the citation given, but to me the above 'from exclusion to' bit makes no sense. Could someone who understands this please help clarify the matter. Thanks.1812ahill (talk) 22:24, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

African American
In the first sentence of the article, it states: "Charlton Heston (born John Charles Carter; October 4, 1923 – April 5, 2008) was an African American actor of film, theatre and television." I don't think that's true. I don't generally do edits or know how it should be done, but I figured I should at least leave a note. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.218.47.124 (talk) 16:59, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Did Heston Really Support Barry Goldwater in 1964?
There is no source for this that is reliable. I read "In the Arena" many years ago and remember the passage of him reading the sign, but do not remember him saying he supported Goldwater publicly. Heston would later say he began to turn against gun control when he supported Goldwater in 1964, but four years later, he went on the Joey Bishop show in support of gun control at the request of LBJ, according to the book "Guns in America" by George Lee Carter. He was asked by the California Democratic Party in 1969 to run for office (State Senate). It is unlikely that this would be offered to a public Goldwater supporter. Goldwater was against civil rights and the Voting rights Act of 1964 so Heston's story a generation later is highly suspect.

Are there any contemporary sources listing Heston as a Goldwaterite?

"Hollywood Left and Right:How Movie Stars Shaped American Politics" by Steven J. Ross says Heston endorsed LBJ, "rejoiced over his victory, and supported Pat Brown's Fair Housing initiative. In other words, he did not support Barry Goldwater.

File:CharltonHestonCivilRightsMarch1963Retouched.jpg to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:CharltonHestonCivilRightsMarch1963Retouched.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on October 4, 2012. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2012-10-04. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! — howcheng  {chat} 21:04, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

general bias
Yes, this articall is very biased against the man and all his people.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Donlb5 (talk • contribs) 17:46, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

heston reverse discrimination
The source linked attributes the "reverse discrimination" line to conservatives in general, not Heston. Gaijin42 (talk) 19:43, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Many conservatives denounced reverse discrimination. The source names Heston as the most prominent--it says "Charismatic conservatives, especially the actor Charlton Heston, galvanized voters...." The article does NOT suggest he was alone. Rjensen (talk) 20:05, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Rjensen 'labeling affirmative action as "reverse discrimination". [...]Charismatic conservatives, especially the actor Charlton Heston, galvanized voters to support Republicans'. the source does not support saying that Heston said anything about reverse discrimination. It says he galvanized people to support republicans. . However, his obit provides a direct quote from Heston, which probably would sufficiently source this http://articles.philly.com/1995-09-14/entertainment/25717536_1_ben-hur-charlton-heston-el-cid Gaijin42 (talk) 20:41, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * the source is about affirmative action & Reverse D. & singles out Heston as important. Rjensen (talk) 20:52, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * This section of the article is poorly structured and needs revision, regardless. I feel like if it was changed to something along the lines of "supported many conservative and neoconservative causes", it would satisfy everybody.Jrector703 (talk) 16:19, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Lead photo
Note that File:Charlton Heston - Ben Hur.jpg was tagged for deletion. --Light show (talk) 22:51, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Charlton Heston
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Charlton Heston's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Esquire": From George Clooney:  From Roger Ebert: Jones, Chris (February 16, 2010). "Roger Ebert: The Essential Man". Esquire 

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 03:18, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
 * done.--Epeefleche (talk) 04:42, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Most significant role
From the lede: "Heston's most famous role came as the five-term president of the National Rifle Association (1998–2003)"

Really?

I've read a lot o amazingly stupid things in Wikipedia, but this has to be in the top twenty. --Yaush (talk) 20:39, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Although it is unclear, I believe the intent is that his most famous role, within his life of politics, is the NRA, not his most famous role overall. But we should certainly tweak the wording on that. Gaijin42 (talk) 20:51, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's much better. --Yaush (talk) 22:24, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

USPS Postage Stamp
TOPIC REQUEST

Charlton Heston was honored with USPS postage stamp on Friday April 11, 2014, unveiled at a ceremony at the historic Chinese Theatre in Hollywood.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/charlton-heston-gets-a-postage-695505Ammobox (talk) 00:52, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Death
His death is listed as from pneumonia but he is categorized as death from prostate cancer and Alzheimer's. No evidence the cancer had returned but since Alzheimer's had him bed-ridden the infection caused the death I'll leave the Alzheimer's category. Alatari (talk) 23:48, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Charlton Heston. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120211084735/http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C200304%5CNAT20030425f.html to http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C200304%5CNAT20030425f.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 06:13, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Charlton Heston legal name
(I moved this from my page so others can comment) Geraldo Perez (talk) 13:35, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

I corrected something in Charlton Heston's Wikipedia page. It started off by listing his name as Charlton Heston (Born John Charles Carter) and I changed it to John Charles Carter better known by his stage name Charlton Heston. His stage name was Charlton Heston, he didn't legally change his name. You reverted it saying "Read the article." I read the article, it says nothing about him legally changing his name to Charlton Heston, noting where his stage name came from, when referring to the name Charlton Heston. Just clarifying. Could you tell me why you reverted it, when it says in the article that it was a stage name and nothing is mentioned about him legally changing his name?NapoleonX (talk) 07:08, 19 October 2015 (UTC)


 * See on this talk page. He was commonly using Charlton and Heston well before he became an actor so that was not just a stage or performing name. He passed on Heston to his son Fraser Clarke Heston. Charlton Heston was elected to the NRA as Charlton Heston. Also see Name change for common law rules on name changes - it doesn't require a judge to issue a certificate to make it happen, a name change is a legal change based on common, non-fraudulent and exclusive usage. There is nothing that shows he used anything other than Charlton Heston as his name other than what is on his birth certificate and early life. Geraldo Perez (talk) 13:35, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Charlton Heston. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111118075401/http://www.mybaycity.com/scripts/Article_View.cfm?ArticleID=1037&NewspaperID=0 to http://www.mybaycity.com/scripts/Article_View.cfm?ArticleID=1037&NewspaperID=0
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160204134600/http://www.robertschoch.net/Redating%20the%20Great%20Sphinx%20of%20Giza.htm to http://www.robertschoch.net/Redating%20the%20Great%20Sphinx%20of%20Giza.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080901013532/http://www.filmlinc.com/wrt/onsale/charltonheston.html to http://filmlinc.com/wrt/onsale/charltonheston.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 23:43, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Charlton Heston. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110924201149/http://www.biography.com/articles/Charlton-Heston-9337556 to http://www.biography.com/articles/Charlton-Heston-9337556
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130802034707/http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/08/09/heston.illness/ to http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/08/09/heston.illness
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121023073424/http://www.secretoftheincas.co.uk/page20.html to http://www.secretoftheincas.co.uk/page20.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 08:48, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Charlton Heston. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150904044627/http://www.covnews.com/archives/47708/ to http://www.covnews.com/archives/47708

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 11:02, 22 December 2017 (UTC)