Talk:Chatri Sityodtong

Deleting large sections about his Sidyodtong's background and finance career?
Sidyodtong had a long career in Wall Street which made him a millionaire, and this was all before he became an entrepreneur. I can't see why a short summary of this finance career was deleted. Also, many public articles about him mention his inspiring story of overcoming his family's poverty and going to Harvard. Information about this background should definitely be in the story. Lastly, why was his real name deleted? Chatri Sidyodtong's real name is Chatri Trisipisal (ชาตรี ตรีศิริพิศาล). Sidyodtong is his ring name. A biographical article should definitely contain a person's real name.Thaistory (talk) 15:30, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Less than five minutes after added thing information back to the article, it was deleted by a Singaporean IP number. What's going on here?  I'm not violating Sityodtong's privacy - all these details are from magazine or newspaper articles, and they don't paint him in a negative light at all.Thaistory (talk) 16:34, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The 3RR is in place :(  Anonymous editors based in Singapore (58.146.137.199, 203.116.29.210) have been on the other side of the reversions. Requests for polite and open conversation have unfortunately been ignored. Although this is a BLP, the information that is being reverted isn't negative. I had earlier thought that wholesale removal of material was vandalism - this was incorrect.Thaistory (talk) 03:40, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
 * If multiple IP editors are edit-warring, semi-protection might be warranted. (See WP:Protection policy; requests may be made at WP:Requests for page protection.) I don't see problems with Thaistory's edits. --Paul_012 (talk) 15:50, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Real name before ring name
Wikipedia practice places the subject's real name before the ring name. Chatri's real name is Trisipisal, his ring name is Sityodtong.Thaistory (talk) 07:57, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Most commonly used name before real name
Wikipedia guidelines and policy places the subject's most commonly used name cited in reputable media articles before real name, even if it is the stage name or ring name. roycegracie100 —Preceding undated comment added 15:47, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Really? But Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair both show real names before ring names.  In any case, he has many public references as a hedge fund manager, and by his own admission, was a no-name Muay Thai fighter (only 30 fights... his fight record isn't even known to the public).Thaistory (talk) 18:06, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The edits that you and the other anonymous users from Singapore have been doing (Chatri Sityodtong (Thai: ชาตรี ศิษย์ยอดธง) and Yodchatri Sityodtong (Thai: ยอดชาตรี ศิษย์ยอดธง), (born as Chatri Trisiripisal)) make it appear as if he was born as Trisipisal, but has legally changed his name to Sityodtong. That is not the case. Regulatory filings still show his current real legal name as Trisipisal.Thaistory (talk) 18:10, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Here are other examples. One of the most famous Muay Thai fighters in history Samart Payakaroon, or self-help guru Anthony Robbins  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.146.137.199 (talk) 02:51, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * See WIkipedia's guidelines for stage names vs real names http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(people) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Roycegracie100 (talk • contribs) 02:58, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Read the guidelines. Note that for all the examples provided in the guidelines, the real name always comes before the ring name/pen name/pseudonym/stage name. Charles-Édouard Jeanneret, better known as Le Corbusier (French: [lə kɔʁbyzje]; October 6, 1887 – August 27, 1965), Stanley Kirk Burrell (born March 30, 1962), better known by his stage name MC Hammer (and later simply Hammer), Mary Anne (alternatively Mary Ann or Marian) Evans (22 November 1819 – 22 December 1880), better known by her pen name George Eliot.Thaistory (talk) 05:25, 4 March 2013 (UTC)


 * This is directly from Wikipedia's guidelines Nicknames, pen names, stage names, cognomens

Shortcut: WP:STAGENAME The name used most often to refer to a person in reliable sources is generally the one that should be used as the article title, even if it is not their "real" name, and even if it appears to pass judgement on the person (as with Alfred the Great).

If people published under one or more pen names and/or their own name, the best known of these names is chosen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Roycegracie100 (talk • contribs) 12:14, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * As per the guidelines, the article title is Chatri Sityodtong. No argument about that. But within the introductory section of the article, the examples provided in the guidelines show the real name prior to the ring name/pen name/pseudonym/stage name.Thaistory (talk) 15:24, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Hedge fund manager
Sityodtong made his millions managing hedge funds. This money allowed him to become an entrepreneur and start his gym. Surely the fact that he was a hedge fund manager should be included in the Intro.Thaistory (talk) 18:06, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Past vs Present
Sityodtong today is most known for his Evolve MMA. The intro does not need to include his past as a former hedge fund manager as it is clearly stated in the early business career section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Roycegracie100 (talk • contribs) 03:01, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * If what you claim were true, Bill Gates' intro would have no introduction of his software career and Yingluck Shinawatra's intro would have no introduction of her business career. In any case, Chatri is still very active in the world of finance, and the scale of his finance businesses are gigantic compared to his smaller and much more recent gym business. The intro is a summary of the individual as a whole, and Chatri Trisipisal was and continues to a money manager.Thaistory (talk) 05:10, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Sityodtong is no longer a hedge fund manager. Today, he is an entrepreneur and a former hedge fund manager. Roycegracie100 (talk) 12:10, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, Bill Clinton used to be a politician and a president, but now he does philanthropy. But his article intro mentions his philanthropy after mentioning his political career. Thaistory (talk) 12:20, 4 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Bill Clinton is most famous for being president and a politician. In Sityodtong's case, he is most famous for his Evolve MMA academies which he is currently still doing.  His current occupation as an entrepreneur is more relevant than his past as a hedge fund manager.  Look at the number of reliable media articles and interviews.  He has zero media articles/interviews as a hedge fund manager.Roycegracie100 (talk) 12:39, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * What makes you think he wasn't famous for being a hedge fund manager and businessman? There are thousands of Google links to Chatri Trisiripisal, his Wall Street name. He became a self-made millionaire in Wall Street. Granted, there are also thousands of Google links to Chatri Sityodtong, his ring name, and he's been making name for himself in the MMA community for the past 5 years. He might be re-branding himself as an entrepreneur and a gym owner, which is fine, but let's none white-wash his background. This is a biographical encyclopedia article, not a PR profile page. Thaistory (talk) 13:21, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I recall having a debate like this on the Jean-Claude Van Damme page. Before he was a very famous actor, he was quite a successful martial artist (using his real name, not his stage name). Yet his intro still mentions that he is a martial artist, actor, and director - in that order. Just because he was more famous as an actor doesn't mean that his biographical article introduction should not mention his brief but impactful pre-acting accomplishments. Especially when his martial arts career was instrumental to his success in acting. The millions Chatri made in finance is instrumental to the success of his gym. That's why it deserves mentioning in the intro. Thaistory (talk) 13:26, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Fight record?

 * Does anybody have a citation for his fight record? He's on the record as saying that he's a relative noob, having had only 30 fights.  Given he was bestowed the honor of being one of the four conservators of his teacher's brand of Muay Thai, it would be useful for readers to see his fight record.  Also, since his intro names him as a retired professional "martial artist," the article should include his martial arts fight record, and if possible, his fight breakdown.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thaistory (talk • contribs) 18:17, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, does anybody have any citations for the years when he was active as a fighter? All I can find is an interview where he says he retired in 2008. But in the years prior to 2008, he was running a hedge fund. Ratchadamnoen and Lumpini muay thai stadiums don't have online fight records, and I can find find any references to him (for both of his ring names) in my Thai-language muay thai magazines. Thaistory (talk) 16:20, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Awards / Rankings to gym don't belong in personal article
More than half of items in the Awards and Recognition section are not about Chatri, but about his gym. Although some of the notable ones should be noted in the text, I don't think it's appropriate to list them all out. After all, Greg Jackson's personal article doesn't list any rankings to his gym, Carlos Barreto's doesn't list Black House's awards, Cesar Gracie's doesn't list his gym's recent "Best Gym" trophy at the 2012 World MMA Awards, etc.Thaistory (talk) 05:49, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Ethnicity and nationality
There seems to be the beginnings of an edit war between myself and Royce Gracie (!) about how to state Chatri's nationality/ethnicity. I think it's very awkward to saw he's a former hedge fund manager, Thai entrepreneur, and martial artist of Thai-Japanese ethnicity. What he is is a former hedge fund manager and entrepreneur. You could say he's a Thai-Japanese former hedge fund manager and entrepreneur, but why focus on the fact that he's a Thai entrepreneur, rather than a Thai-Japanese former hedge fund manager? It just seems awkward.Thaistory (talk) 11:41, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Another point: was he actually born Chatri Trisipisal? One of the articles states that he's half-Thai half-Japanese.  Trisiripisal is a Thai-surname, so can we presume that his father is Thai and his mother is Japanese?  Or was was it the other way around, and Chatri legally uses his mother's surname?Thaistory (talk) 12:18, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

COI tag (March 2022)
There seems to be a clear coordinated WP:COI effort going on for this BLP, namely from WP:SPA accounts such as Jacksonbulldog, Roycegracie100, Ammalove, PinnacleLight and Thaistory Razali Osman (talk) 19:48, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Extensive cleanup has been done. Do you think more is required? Evilmichaelscarn (talk) 12:20, 4 March 2022 (UTC)