Talk:Chattering classes

NPOV: Nazi references
In regards to all the reference to nazis that were in the article before I deleted them:

I hope this is not news to anyone, but 1) Hitler and Goebbels were German and 2) German leaders did not generally give speeches in English. The connection implied by the mendacious translation of words to 'chattering' creating a false mental association to a more recent english expression - that is entirely and completely spurious. This is cheap political propaganda at its finest and not at home in even a dubious 'source' like wikipedia. If the intention is to diss conservatives, that's well accomplished by the spin in the description of the term - without going straight for the Godwin and implying they're all goddamned nazi's as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.81.251.201 (talk) 17:31, 7 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Hitler was Austrian... not that it matters much but to be correct! 2A02:908:1083:3DA0:5C20:3069:A147:DB23 (talk) 19:07, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Some Names?
Would it be possible to list some names of members of the Chattering Classes? I imagine that they are likely to be writers, journalists, politicians or broadcasters. Ausseagull (talk) 08:28, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Derogatory!?
I disagree with this article. I have never been aware of the term being used in anything other than a derogatory way, at least in a mild sense. I understand the term to refer to more or less frivolous and self-serving people.

My first reaction to this article was that it must have been written by a PR person for one of this very class!!

I propose to change the tone of the article. Any comments? Wibblywobbly 16:28, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

I contributed to this article and I am certainly not doing PR for these people!! I agree that I have never heard of it being used in anything but a negative way, but IMHO we shouldn't necessarily confuse our own personal experience with use in general - so should be cautious. Alex Swanson 18:43, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Look at the Oxford Dictionary definition. Its not always used in a derogatory way. Its possible that all Wikipedia contributors are members. Lumos3 19:41, 10 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Hi Swanson, fair point, but I do think the gist (not exclusively, of course) of the article should reflect the general use, which is clearly derogatory (at least in a mild way). I'm going to do a google and see if I can find some samples. The PR line was tongue-in-cheek, no offence! :-) Paulc1001 09:01, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Lumos, I read the OED of course and it says "frequently derogatory". The article clearly implies "less than frequent". Frankly, the OED definition is slightly different to my image of it, but that probably often happens to me! I note that the defintition in OED seems to be from 1989 and this is the sort of newly-coined phrase whose sense could evolve a lot in a decade and a half. I suggest that the generally used sense has become somewhat more derogatory by now? Paulc1001 09:01, 11 November 2005 (UTC)


 * The OED has 5 citations as examples of use. The 2 most recent are in 1996 and 2000 and these appear to refer to the CCs in the same way in which the Wikipedia article describes them.  Lumos3 09:10, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

I must admit I don't see how those examples are anything except derogatory to a greater or lesser extent, or perhaps neutral at best. I don't agree that the article reflects the OED. The OED says "freq. derogatory" immediately, whereas the article mentions it almost as an after-thought. I admit, however, that this discussion and the related articles has led me to understand the term a little differently than before. Note, without tone of voice here please read this in a friendly discussion tone! Wibblywobbly 11:36, 11 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I was also thrown by this article. The word chattering suggests trivial exchange of trivial knowledge, information, opinions. "Chattering classes" conveys the idle well-to-do and jaded intelligentsia whose interests are far from the interests of real people who have to work hard to earn a living.                     Janosabel 22:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[18/08/2008]

Removed the following paragraph from the main page: "It is quite evident..." indicates a Point of View being given rather than neutral information.

//It is quite evident then, that there is little that is new in the phenomenon of right wing political figures and polemicists invoking the existence of a 'chattering elite'. It can be considered both a standard populist maneuver and as allowing ideas to be dismissed by association with a pejorative 'class' of people. This takes the place of engaging with the content of the ideas themselves. More dangerously, such a perspective potentially undermines a principled commitment to free speech.//

Also - should all the stuff about Nazis be in here ? The only thing relevant seems to be the word 'chatter' - the context seems way-off the article's main subject ?

Johnnywikki 20:12, 18 August 2007 (UTC)JohnnyWiki

RE: the nazi material. Given the clear evidence that the expression 'chattering classes' constitutes a form of polemic associated with the political Right, I think it is relevant and useful that material is included which places such an idiom in historical context (i.e. precedents of similiar use).

Indeed, I suspect a significant aspect of people's interest in this entry likely concerns such questions as 'when was this expression first used, by whom, and what might account for its emergence?".

However, I do think that the nazi entry is a little long, and probably has the wrong heading. Something more along the lines of 'historical origins' or 'precedents' or suchlike would be better.

Filipio 10:33, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I conceive the term also as derogatory only and not mildly so. Based on severe sarcastic disrespect that floods out of such an expression when a British conservative spews them. In the eye of the user it is never meant to adress the "politically active, socially concerned and highly educated section of the "metropolitan middle class"", as those are well sounding attributes the chattering class has given itself! What it really means: The chattering classes - you know those useless people that babble babble babble all the time for the primary sake of babbling without any hint of knowledge what they are in reality babbling about while engulfing in moral masturbation. But thinking they knew it all because of some worthless babbling degree that makes them think to know what us stupid muppets should think to be decent human beings... That's what it means! 2A02:908:1083:3DA0:5C20:3069:A147:DB23 (talk) 19:30, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

NPOV resolved?
I referenced things that I could reference and I removed some contraversial uncited items. I think the NPOV issue is therefore resolved. OK to remove the NPOV citation? --Treekids (talk) 19:40, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Removing NPOV tag as there is no response to comment above and the article looks cleaned up. Jeepday (talk) 21:53, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Merger
I have preposed merging the following articles to the LIBERAL ELITE article.


 * Hollywood Left
 * Champagne socialist
 * East Coast liberal
 * Gauche caviar
 * Limousine liberal
 * San Francisco values
 * Chardonnay socialist
 * Massachusetts liberal
 * Chattering classes

Firstly, they all say much of the same thing and secondly if they were all brought together it would give a worldwide viewpoint instead into "Liberal elitism" instead of having a US bias. I will copy this message on all the other article talk pages. All discussions should be done on the LIBERAL ELITE talk page so that all discussions are kept together. — Realist 2  ( Who's Bad? ) 05:40, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

This seems to imply that all members of the "Chattering Classes" are liberal lefties. I'm not at all sure that's the case. My (limited) experience of them is that they're likely to come out with hearsay based "received truths", which might in some instances be right wing. Ausseagull (talk) 08:25, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Accuracy?
From what I've always understood, the term "chattering classes" just means the political pundits (especially in DC), regardless of ideology.108.82.47.158 (talk) 08:03, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Who coined it...
I don't know really how to edit it, but I just thought I would let someone know that the term has been used by Antonio Gramsci in his "Prison Notebooks", even before the allegedly inventor of the term (in this article) was born. Gramsci claimed to the communists to take all the posts in the "Chattering elite" (journalists, academia, entertainment and culture in general) so the communist's voice was the only one to be heard, unknowingly to the great public. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.75.66.30 (talk) 13:23, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

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Origin of phrase incorrect
I felt certain that this phrase originated earlier than 1980. A search on Google Books indicates that the phrase "chattering class" was in use in the 19th century, including one search result for 1843. WmDKing (talk) 11:38, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I do not have the time to update the article, but a review of the older uses would certainly elucidate the meaning of the phrase. I have a feeling (purely impressionistic) that use of the word "chattering" suggests that the commentaries of those who shape the political agenda or the zeitgeist may focus on less significant matters than those which concern ordinary people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WmDKing (talk • contribs) 12:26, 24 October 2023 (UTC)