Talk:Chav/Archive 5

ORIGIN OF CHAV
Having taken time to add to the early etymology of CHAV and had this trashed by editors twice (MAKE THAT 3 TIMES!!!), by asking for my 'theories' to be substantiated - how can you substantiate undocumented lives of people. So I have opted to provide a history of the word and put it out there for others to substantiate, I have included some never before publicly heard uses of the word but there are many people I am sure who will remember the word being used in this way especially points 1 through to 3.

I have added to the early etymology of the word CHAV, this is not some retrofitted idea about where it 'might've' come from, this is from actual experience, much of which I hope will be individually substantiated from people around the area (North Kent) at the time when these events happened, I have also added on a rough approximation of its latter use.

If you can verify any of these facts then please do add your name/comments to this section!

Dates are approximate and cover a span of time as the transition of a words use can takes many years and start from a localised source moving out to a much wider (and therefore more verifyable source).

1) Pre 1974 - word 'Chav' coined very locally in Temple Hill Dartford Kent as a take on the Irish pronunciation of the word 'ACHieVe', originated from the rhetoric of a notorious Northern Irish pub doorman - evangelising "you'll never achieve anything"

Dave - The term 'Chavvy' was used in Hampshire for as long as I can remember. I can recall its use in the 1960's among traveler families. Also the phrase "Mon Caka" referenced below was also in use at this time, as in "allright my Kaka". It's use amid traveler communities was similar to the current usage of the "N" word today in Black American culture, as an expression of brotherly solidarity. I'm uncertain of the origin of the word "Kaka" but it possibly comes from the Romany word for Uncle, which is Kak or Kako.

2) 1974 - 'Chav' used as a verb meaning 'to acquire/achieve through work', around the same time to verb 'Chor' (pronounced as household chore) was coined meaning 'to steal' - latterly these two verbs would become indistinguisable.

This next bit sounds like I am having a laugh (which is exactly how the joke was originally intended) but it really is true and some people must remember it.

3) 1976 - the joke phrase 'Mon Caka Chavy Dickeye Boy' was coined as a mickey take on the gypsy languange and ethics, and use starts to travel around the pub and school culture in North kent and out west to East end of London and out East to Medway Towns (Chatham and Gillingham).

4) 1977 Chav used much more as a verb to mean 'Steal', 'Chav it!"

5) 1978 - people using 'Mon Caka' (use now disappeared) plus Chavy and Chav to refer to friends or people they meet in the same way as 'mush' or 'mate' is used.

6) Early 1980's - Chav's are referred to as local likely lads the 'in crowd' but use strictly very working class. these next bullet points are well documented by put in for completeness.

Rest is well documented...

Early 1990's Chav used by non working class people to refer to the working classes.

1990's Chav moves to become Burberry clad youth's hanging around in a baseball cap's on a street corner - well documented in the press.

Amust mean 'Council House And Violent' or something to do with Cheltenham Ladies Club (you've got to laugh!) and the rest is history...

I would love to get comments from anyone who remebers the use of the word in the way described in points 1 through 5 (especially as its use was very localised) Many Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aquamac (talk • contribs) 17:03, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm as much in favour of local history as anyone, but Wikipedia isn't the place for it, even talk pages. If anyone is interested in carrying on the conversation, perhaps they can email you (if you've enabled emailing in wikipedia). Itsmejudith (talk) 17:11, 8 October 2008 (UTC)


 * There is much conjecture about the origin of the word try reading down this discussion section, this topic relates to verification of the etymology of the word and is that doesn't belong here then 1) why are editors asking fot it, and 2) you should consider removing the entire discussion which is mostly related to demystifying the origin of the word.
 * This is known as original research here. We don't allow that on articles. Information on articles must have been published elsewhere prior to it being published here. -- how do you turn this on  18:01, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

At the end of the 1980's when we had words such as y.u.p.p.i.e., c.h.a.v. was another popular word meaning council house and violence. For example it was printed in a list of such word by the sun newspaper and my father (a Romany speaker) found it funny back then so it stuck in my mind. This may be why some people want to link it to the Romany word that sound similar (he certainly saw an accidental and incorrect connection possibly being formed and history has proved him correct). However the craze of using initials that led to word yuppie predates most modern explanations so surely must be the actual route of the word!

Section added
i would remove the section but then that just start a edditing war so im going to add a new section and the infomation is 100 percent true —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theunhappymitten (talk • contribs) 17:18, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Basic Description
I disagree completely with the statement "youth and aggression are not the defining attributes of a 'chav'" as this is the Only definition of a chav. A townie can wear all the cheap counterfiet items and be common and vulgar, but the chav is the violent ones who will attack and kill and eat people out of nothing else better to do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.20.219.173 (talk) 07:14, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

- I have to say I am rather annoyed about this articles bias, I cannot accept that Chavs are white working class youths. That to me seems completely unfair, as many chavs happen to be of different ethnic origins, if you look at areas of east London there are chavs of all different races. I think the word 'white' should be removed, not because its racist but because its wholly untrue, there is no difference to white youths in trackies and black or asian youths in trackies. --TJJ08 (talk) 17:59, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Devvo
There is a popular character named "Devvo" that was introduced on www.fat-pie.com. He is the stereotypical chav. I believe he may be parodying one. I will provide a link so one of the editors can add this in, because it is definitely worth adding.

http://www.fat-pie.com/chavs.htm --83.104.237.41 (talk) 10:46, 14 April 2008 (UTC) mothers have now got hold of the word chav and use it against their children though they have no consept of ehat the word actually means they maybe should look it up  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.54.232 (talk) 22:07, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

CHAV
The word CHAV is from the Romani word 'CHAV' which is a shortened version of their word CHAVO / CHAHVO meaning 'A boy of Romani origin'. A non-Romani boy is known as a 'RAKLO / RAHKLO'.

Many travellers do also say chavi / chahvi but this should be for a girl as 'i' on the end is feminine. 'o' on the end of a word is masculine.

This newly found use of the word by youngsters started in the ex-naval town of Chatham in Kent. In Chatham at the start of the 1900's there used to be a very lot of travellers living in the Beacon Road and old ash tree lane areas. Over the passing years these families are now intergrated into the local housing estates. These families are often related to one another as travellers tend to marry amongst travellers. Young boys amongst travelling families are often expected to be able to box as part of their culture and with the support of big families they often become influentual amongst other children in the local schools. What has occures as a result of all this is alot of the local youth have become traveller wannabees. The same has also happened in many other local towns around Kent. Kent was famous for travellers as it had plenty of farms which provided work for them.

Local youth growing up in these areas would try and learn and copy the words used amongst the ex-travelling families such as Romani words; chav - boy, mush - man, jel - go, chor - steal and also words from traveller slang; mort - woman, jank - toilet, ken - house.

About 10 yrs ago in Chatham some of the local popular kids who were growing up and going to school together started calling themselves 'chavs' or 'Chatham Chavs' as a kind of gang or identity. At first they would wear a flat cap as a code of dress and the girls who would follow them would wear the gypsy style big ear rings. Things developed from this and before anyone knew it the term and fashion had caught on and spread throughout.


 * Charva has long been used in Cumbrian Dialect( many words have association with Romani words), particularly in Carlisle and West Cumbria, which means a bloke/lad. Has been used there pre 1900. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.98.198.227 (talk • contribs) 10:43, 17 July 2008
 * Do you have any book or document that shows that the word was used before 1900? If you do, please describe it here. It could be a very important source, not just for this article but also for Romani language. Thanks. (BTW, you can sign your messages on talk pages by adding "four tildes", like this ~ .) Itsmejudith (talk) 10:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

chavo is Romani for unmarried Romani male, male Romani child, from Sanskrit sava
The cheltenham ladies college use the phrase 'chav' as slang or short for 'cheltenham average'

Actually being from a Romani family and therefore having a good knowledge on the language I can confirm that chavo is boy (of Romani bloodline). Chavi means girl. In some dialects of Romani in Eastern Europe they say 'Chavoro'.

The Romani language has its origins from India. The root of this word is from the Sanskrit sva meaning 'one's own'. Evolving the word via the Rajput / Rajasthani regional dialects makes it become chavo as the 's' becomes 'ch' and 'o' at the end replaces the 'a'. In modern Rajasthani we have chav meaning 'like' and choro meaning 'boy'. Therefore the word means 'a boy that is one own'.

- This is indeed corrcet. As you say, travellers and those attempting to mimic the Romany often use the phrase "Dordi Chavvi" (derived from dear Child). In Essex where it is popular to claim a false Romany heritage those having heard this phrase use it often (along with Mush, wonga, Kushti/kushdi and all the others Romany word that have found there way into London slang via 'only fool and horses et al) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sodiumnoir (talk • contribs) 12:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

NED
As a thorough bred Scot I would like to point out that Chav is an English expression - the Scottish equivalent being NED (N.E.D. or Non-Educated Delinquent) the two stereotypes are similar, however, the connotations are slightly different including such things as Buckfast, Lacoste trainers, Vauxhall Novas and white shellsuits. Therefore, this article is incorrect in its broad generalisation of Scotland and England as the United Kingdom - Scotland is a completely different country, fortunately sharing only a common language and border. Actually, Scotland is a SLIGHTLY different country from England - they have a lot more in common than they both care to think.

tone
Can we reformat this page to follow more closely the layout and tone of other offensive slurs on Wikipedia? i.e. this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_trash etc? Currently this page looks like a middle class critisism of 'Chav' culture, rather than a properly written description of a slur.

Australian/New Zealand Chavs
What are Chavs known as in Australia/New Zealand?, I heard they are called 'Chozzies'.

User:Jetwave Dave 28/06/07 00:56PM

Never heard of that, I live in NZ. Sounds stupid enough to be aussie slang though :P 123.100.89.49 04:49, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

The Chozzie link just links back to Chav, if it is an Aussie term(it's not one I've ever heard) then it should probably link to Bogan IMO nigell k 16:03, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Probably bogan or westie- West Auckland has its own distinctive brand of pot-smoking, heavy metal fancying, rugby league addict working-class folks who might be identified with it. For more details on westie subculture, see Outrageous Fortune (TV series), an NZ black comedy series that celebrates the lives of one westie family... Calibanu 02:43, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[User Calibanu]15.40, 28 October 2007

Never heard them called Chozzies in Australia, though i have heard the term wigger a few times. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.44.64.244 (talk) 12:24, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Ivardj Norwegian Chavs
Could someone please change the Norwegian equivalent back to Harry as a Fjortis is of a certain age (around fourteen. Fjorten = fourteen), and doesn't really have the same "qualities" as a chav? Harry is the closest you'll get in Norway.

The Cheltenham Connection
I have recently discoverd that the Cheltenham derravation of Chave is CHeltenham AVerage man.

Are you sure your not confusing Cheltenham with Chatham? The stereotype of Cheltenham is one of Affluence so it wouldn't make sence yet Chatham Average is often cited as a route of Chav and is linked to the Romany Influences on North Kent.(86.31.187.246 (talk) 00:33, 28 August 2008 (UTC))

List of Stereotypes
The list has really gotten out of hand. I've tried pruning it back before, but the edit was undone. Honestly, the list is twice as long as the article itself, not to mention a lot of the stereotypes mentioned really aren't similar to chavs at all! I'd like to try again to revise this section, but I'd also like to see how the other editors feel on the subject so as to avoid the edit being undone. DuckieRotten 14:13, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Is mush a slang term for mate used by chavs?
The Mush dab page has this line: Does this accurately report how the word mush is used by chavs? --Jtir 10:22, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
 * mush, a slang term for mate used by chavs
 * No, "mush" is a long-standing word in English slang and pre-dates the chav phenomenon by a long way. Itsmejudith 11:20, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I copied the above to Talk:Mush. --Jtir 18:33, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Think Mush come from Anglo-Indian/Urdu or Romany meaning face. It has the same currency as "oh, same old faces...", but much more familiarly. Mike33 13:09, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Mush is actually the Romani word for 'man' which is short for 'Mahnush. The female equiverlent is Mahnushi. The Romani word for mouth is Mui.

The Romani language is very close to modern Panjabi & Rajasthani but left India around 1000ad so has much more of a Sanskrit influence.

Romani has over the years influenced the English language. The english word punch come from Pahnj meaning 'five', Kosh comes from Kahsht meaning 'stick', lolly pop come from lahli pahbai meaning 'red apple'.

The Romani that went to Spain are called the 'Cale' (Kahleh) or the gitanos. They also have influenced the Spanish language in the same way with certain words.

The English custom of giving silver at a Christening originates from the Romani people due to the famous Romani man 'Billy Marshall' giving spoons to the King of England at the birth of the King's son. Romani often cross the palm of a new born baby with silver as they believe it will bring future fortune.

What about "Council House And violent" as the derivation? 86.159.101.185 (talk) 13:22, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Can a black person be a chav ? 86.140.24.150 (talk) 22:15, 6 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd suggest a chav can be black - or more likely, mixed race. But black culture and chav culture are not the same thing even if chavs adopt some elements of what they perceive as 'the' black culture. So, can a chav be black? Yes. Can a black person be a chav? Less likely, though some are on the fringes (for example black guys with white chav girlfriends). Chav comes out of the white working class although Julie Burchill (who really should know better) has defended them on the grounds that 'they aren't racist'. No, they'll attack you no matter what colour you are. Vortinax (talk) 13:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Only one picture? A cartoon at that, hell I could spend 10 seconds down town on a friday night and get pictures of thousands of the things. i posted loads I took myself to illustrate. one of our better editors decided that Wikipedia is not the place for candid camera shots in a derogatory setting. Waste of time posting pix they just get deleted by the PC IMAGE MAFIA. Good faith they can WP:GF!!!! Mike33 13:01, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi I think you that there should be a real life example of Chavs and Chav behaviour, and this link depicts both particularly well... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l5NckWZDyQ

deleted guido and bridge and tunnel from list of similar stereotypes
i am not an expert in this subject but it seems that although guido and bridge and tunnel are negative/derogatory stereotypes, they are not equivalent to chav for their part of the world. the other terms on the list seem to refer to similar phenomena localized around the world. these two items IMHO do not fit on the list. if you feel strongly enogh otherwise, go ahead and restore them. the problem is that this list could easily become just a list of derogatory slang, as opposed to chav-like terms outside of england and wales. uri budnik 01:41, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Chav in common use in Cheltenham in the 1990's
As someone who has lived in Cheltenham for the last 18 years, and one of whose children attended Cheltenham Ladies College, I can confirm that the word 'chav' has been in common useage in Cheltenham for many years. Our children used it when they were smaller (say 10 years ago, so 1996). We had to stop them using it as it has derogatory overtones.

Interestingly they believe that it was in far more common use at the boy's school Cheltenham College (CC) rather than at Cheltenham Ladies College (CLC). It is generally held that the media attributed the word to CLC as it made better copy to imagine posh girls looking down on local boys.

I have no idea whether the word originated in Cheltenham, or was imported, but it certainly predates the media interest of the last few years.
 * The current Oxford Dictionary of English predates the gals at Chel'nam by 150 years and puts it down to a Romany word meaning child. In current parlez it certainly is 15 years old, but from where and when???? Mike33 13:18, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Radjee
Now I thought I knew everything - but RADJEE as in
 * common expample of a chav band is http://www.myspace.com/sealhaven their music is proppa radjee

What on earth does Radjee mean? Mike33 13:25, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * ‘Radjee’, is the term ascribed to the behaviour of an individual who is rather annoyed; approximate to ‘flying off the handle’ or in a huff etc.Mrheathcliff 17:20, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Not really, someone can also be a radgee, it is similar to someone being a nutcase etc, the prefered team is radged though. 167.1.176.4 (talk) 08:29, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

It came from WW1 British soldiers serving in France learning that the French word for 'mad' was 'enragé' (en-ra-jay). So, if someone is called a 'Radjee' it colloquially means they are furiously annoyed....or 'mad'.

Cheltenham - Chavs, Mush, 90's and cheap jeans
I also come from Cheltenham (and went to Pate's Grammar, where we also looked down on the locals from Hester's Way), and the term 'Chav' has been in use since the mid 90's around here. However the use of the word 'mush' was in wide use before 'chav'. The Hesters way (stereotype here, it was area wide) locals would wear really baggy jeans with words like 'Eclipse', 'Spliffy' on the back pocket, we called them 'Trackies', they used to call everyone 'mush' which we all thought was Romani for 'man'. Becuase there were large groups of kids like this, they got called 'chavs' which we thought was Romani for 'kid'. I guess the people that attended the public schools picked up the local lingo.

I went to Pate's Grammar AND was one of those locals from the Hester's Way council estate that you looked down on too. What you say is nonsense and I don't recognise any of it. What this whole debate about chav shows to me is we need to drop the labels for people

Rubbish, I've lived in Cheltenham for ages and *everyone* knows what chavs are. It's exacty as the original comment described during the 90s. The cheap jackets you could get down the market with various drug slang on the back. It's changed since then, even burberry isn't all that common, but tracksuit bottoms, stripey shirts and gaunt faces are still good chav identifiers. The person who resonded with the need to 'drop the labels', I think that's wishful thinking. I dont know where you lived in Cheltenham, but chavs are a common sighting and there is no mistaking them. No, not everyone who lives on a council estate is a chav, but I would say that all chavs live on council estates. Hesters Way, Waddon Road, Princess Elizabeth Way, St Pauls. All high chav population areas.

Pronunciation?
How about a guide to pronunciation? I have no idea how this is said (shav, chav?), so I can't help.

It's in the wiktionary: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/chav

UK Debate
I believe the term "Chav" is only used in England and Wales. I now for a fact where i live (Scotland) we use the term "Ned" (see [Ned (Scottish)]) and also think they don't use Chav in Northern Ireland. I would suggest the opening sentence is changed to account for this fact but i wont change it until some people reply to this. This is the discussion page after all. Zippokovich 00:56, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I think you are right. Moreover, as has been said, "charva" is the more common term in the north of England and the meaning is not necessarily identical. Unless we have any evidence that the term is in common use outside England, then the lead to the article should specify England rather than UK. Itsmejudith 11:04, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Except that it has been established that everywhere has its own terms for the group and that 'Chav' is unique in that its use by mainstream media means that it would be understood by people across the UK, whereas regional variants arent. Kev, Ned, Scally, Charva, Townie etc. all = Chav. --Robdurbar 11:14, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * 'Chav' is only used by the English press, as most of them are based in the south of England, where Chav is used. However all the Scottish papers/News use Ned and most Scots don't know what a Chav is. Furthermore Chav is just another local variant, spoken by the largest minority. Since the term is not in use in any where other than England/Whales (and in the evidence that Itsmejudith give possibly just the South of England) I still up hold that the article should be changed from:

"Chav is a derogatory slang term in the United Kingdom (UK)" to "Chav is a derogatory slang term in the South of England and Whales". It would also be good if someone could give me conformation on what is used in Whales. Zippokovich 00:56, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Changed lead to "England" since a) we know it is in common use in at least part of England and b) we know there are alternative terms in Scotland and Northern Ireland. Note that this wording does not actually rule out the idea that "chav" would be recognised in other parts of the UK. However, with "England", the article is playing safe and sticking to what the sources tell us. Itsmejudith 11:55, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I think charva is just the north east, not all of northern england. My family certainly use chav and they are in Yorkshire. However this counts as original research, we need sources. Secretlondon 18:10, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Appearance of vandalism-type material referencing Cheshire would tend to show that it is current in the north west, as you say. However, as you point out, that's original research. Itsmejudith 15:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

How about The viz--Josquius 22:11, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * If you mean Viz magazine as a source for references to chav/charva, it would seem to be relevant. Why not try adding something? Itsmejudith 15:02, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

“Charva” redirects to this page. Wictionary indicates that the terms have distinct etymological origins. The term is in common usage in the North East which is, generally speaking, comprises Northumberland, Tyne & Wear, Durham and Cleveland. Yorkshire culturally, politically and linguistically is distinct from the North East, it is therefore unsurprising that residents are not familiar with the finer parts of Geordie dialect.

Re: the immediate above. I'm Yorkshire born and bred (Bradford) and during the late 80's and early 90's at Upper School we used the word "Charver" (note the difference in spelling) all the time! We used it to mean the following: someone who is out to rob you or short change/con you in a cheeky kind of way. Although this is what might be termed "original research" it proves the word(Charva)wasn't just confined to the mean streets of Northumberland and County Durham but as far south as the West Riding! PS Tyne and Wear was the name of a county council that was abolished some time ago and most of what was called "Cleveland" is in fact Yorkshire, so why it's regarded as the North East is beyond me apart from it being in the North East England Government Office Region! (AMD, Yorkshre)

As far as printed sources go, the word has been recognised by the national media. [*] The North East press (Evening Chronicle, Journal, Northern Echo &c.) frequently use the word. [*] The Gloucester Citizen: February 23, 2006, pg 12 [*] Daily Mail: October 13, 2004 pg 64 Laura Clark [*] Western Morning News (Plymouth): September 17, 2004, pg 22 [*] The Liverpool Daily Post & Echo: October 23, 2001, pg 6 Rosie Williams

A close reading of this article would seem to indicate that whilst there is no mutual exclusivity, the two terms can be distinguished. The label ‘chav’ is affixed to anyone who conforms to a fashion driven consumerist stereotype; as exemplified by celebrities mentioned in the article body. The label ‘charva’ is affixed to members of the ‘Lumpenproletariat’. Many members of this latter group do ascribe to the same consumerism as those of the former, as evidenced by increasing theft of mobile phones and fashionable shoes amongst teenagers. Mrheathcliff 19:09, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Seems popular here in Wrexham, Wales - too popular for my liking! Marbles333 18:03, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Chav is a well-known term in Manchester and Sheffield - but the term "Scally" is still holding out strongly in Manchester as well (particularly for chavs from Liverpool). I don't know what "Whales" call chavs, as I don't speak Sea Mammal fluently. CJ

hmm...It seems charver is editable once more. The previous VFD on that article was not fair at all- none of the editors of the article were informed and it happened overnight with none of us being any the wiser. Now things are different too, there is far more of a case for it being its own....Should we go and split this one into chav/charva making a note for the Londoners that this is referring to the fashionable type of chav and charva is on the scummy type?--Josquius 13:16, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I live in scotland and (in my school at lest) chav is used alot, N.E.D(Non Educated Delicwit) is basicly a chave who dosent go to school. alot of 1st years co to the park at lunch (amoung them alot of chavs) and the chavs are alot of trubal,basicly chavs are the lafing stok.

In the south west of england, chav is considered by some to be short for 'chav scum' as was noted by robert rankin in a Q&A session, though he mentioned that he prefers to think of them as burberrians. If anyone can locate the transcript of that Q&A to cite the reference, it would increase the accuracy of the article.SirEelBiscuits (talk) 13:39, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

ireland
do they have chavs in ireland


 * See the See Also, Other Europe for Irish (including northern Irish) synonyms. Itsmejudith 22:58, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Em yes, they're called knackers or skangers. Around Limerick there known as scumbags,literally —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

Heads up
Just a heads up, you'll have already noticed, people pissing about with the page. I can see how it might be amusing if they were being subtle, but ffs... Oh, and dont forget the 'emo' reference in the 'Criticisms' heading. Who want's to bet it was some 13 yr old kid with a persecution complex? I'd do this myself but my html/editing is genereally a bit too crappy not to risk messing something up (and the urge to badmouth Julie Burchill might be too much even for me). Cheers

139.184.30.16 20:28, 7 December 2006 (UTC)MNONE

Kapper?
In the similar stereotypes section, under the subheading The Pacific, one of the Australian terms listed is Kapper. I've never heard this term before and honestly it sounds like a word that would be used by a small group of people considering a quick Google only returns surnames for this term. Can whoever added this term please create an article explaining it, or remove it if it's not in wide use. shiyoushi 16:23, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I didn't add this, but in Scotland Kappa is a term for a chav, from the clothing brand Kappa (which is allegedly popular with chavs)

Ah ok then. Kappa sounds exactly the same as Kapper, so whoever made that entry probably just misspelt it. I'll just change the spelling in the article then :) shiyoushi 14:03, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

What about 'Lads'?
I'm from Sydney, and I know terms such as 'Yobbo' and 'Westie' aren't related to Chavs. These stereotypes are more linked to socio-economic status, fashions and social dispositions which are affilitated with attempting to achieve class and a higher standard of living, but to no or limited avail. I'm wondering why a widely accepted (and loathed) parallel to Chav culture, namely Sydney's 'Lads', aren't referenced at all. They are virtually identical in demeanor and fashion, and are a common sight in the harbour city's inner and outer suburbs. 203.51.57.109 08:07, 18 December 2006 (UTC)blasko_88

Total re-write
Does anyone feel this whole article could have been written a whole lot better? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.146.55.19 (talk) 23:33, 23 December 2006 (UTC).

Yeah I've been thinking along those lines for a bit but am a bit too busy with non-wikipedia stuff right now...Maybe in mid Jan I'll take a look and split it more fully into charver and chav and hopefully try and get it to be less...bitty--Josquius 17:44, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Chav jokes
I suspect the inclusion of a few chav hater jokes in the article would contravene the rules but is it OK for the discussion.

What do you write on a chav's birthday card?

To a Grandma whose 27 today!

(22 would be a more accurate portral) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.14.66.249 (talk) 15:05, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Music in the lead para
The suggested types of music liked by chavs keeps being altered and we have no source for it anyway. Unlike, say, heavy metal fans, this stereotype/subculture is not really defined by its taste in music. Do we have consensus for taking the types of music out of the lead? Comments welcome. Thanks.Itsmejudith 13:47, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree that music is transitory, however the places that chavs tend to spend their holidays tends to be fairly constant. This is not mentioned in the article anywhere at present. Faliraki, Ibiza, Tenerife, anyone? Tobycek 17:08, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Bro (in United States and Canada)
Deleted 'bro' because it's a parody of a drastically different part of culture dealing with preps.

End of first para
The claim that "Chav is short for council houses and violence" should be removed. It doesn't seem to come up when I try to edit it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.69.28.55 (talk) 12:46, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

Definition of pubic hair
"Some young male chavs tend to have pubic hair like facial hair, notably a moustache"... this needs to be changed to something that makes a lick of sense. Pubic hair does not grow on faces, and it doesn't help that this misuse of the phrase is actually a link to the definition of pubic hair. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.59.141.200 (talk) 08:16, 3 February 2007 (UTC).

Origin of the word Chav dating back to 1980
I read with interest the comments about the word Chav being used in Cheltenham as long as 15 years ago and I believe that it's use originated as early as 1980 in Bromsgrove, Worcestershire.

Bromsgrove has 2 schools very close to each other at the south end of the town - Bromsgrove School (an independant fee-paying day and boarding school) and South Bromsgrove High School which is now described as a technology school but back then was just the plain old high school for all the regular kids in the south of the town including those kids who lived on the council estate called CHARFORD which is where the school is located.

The South Bromsgrove kids had various names for the Bromsgrove School pupils which need not be discussed here but the unanimous name used by Bromsgrove School pupils for their next door neighbours was Chaf which when pronounced by kids with middle class accents sounded more like Chav.

In comparison to the smartly dressed Bromsgrove School pupils, the local kids tended to be scruffier, rougher and a little less well spoken which is where the sterotypical image has evolved from.

One reason which could be attributed to the country wide recognition and use of the term Chaf (or Chav) would be that typically a high proportion of pupils at Bromsgrove School were boarders coming in from all around the country during term time. On returning to their home towns during holidays they would continue to use the phrase to describe other kids who maintained the stereo-type image that had been created in the South of Bromsgrove.

83.104.170.53 22:23, 6 February 2007 (UTC) Paul H


 * I was interested to see this comment regarding the usage of "chav" in 1980's Bromsgrove, as I was going to post a comment that would further support the claim that chav originates from this area. Most people see the word chav as being a relatively new thing--and even this article lists it as coming into usage in the early 1990s--but my mother insists that she remembers scruffy/rough kids being called chavs in Kidderminster in the late 1970s. Kidderminster, being a large town approximately 10 miles west of Bromsgrove. Obviously this proves nothing, but it is interesting, I think. --Beeurd (talk) 03:12, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It's been standard terminology in the North East of England as far back as around 1990, when individuals describable by the term first started to emerge, and burberry stopped being a look only elderly ex-miners sported. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.233.244.34 (talk) 21:08, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Bias
Ok fine, i will admit i personally have no sympathy for chavs when bad things happen to them, and i honestly hate them, but seriously, everyone deserves to have their label describes WITHOUT bias! Get rid of all this '(often cheap)' and 'tacky' because it puts bias into the page. This isn't a personal report, its a matter of fact report. But if anyone wants to edit it into saying (often depicted as cheap) then go ahead. By the way i have resons for not doing it myself

Ofthen cheap is a description and I believe it not to be biased. When was the last time you saw a chav wearing a real rolex watch for instance? A thing that does need altering is the racism in this article. eg 'Multi-coloured offspring' I think this is more than slightly unacceptable. (88.212.141.49 23:29, 23 February 2007 (UTC))

re 2multi-coloured offspring" I don't think it's racist at all- all it does it paraody the apparent tendency for female chavs to have sex with all races of men, and have multi-coloured babies... whatever the PC term is now!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.229.27.251 (talk) 18:34, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I really don't like chavs, but some of them are not that bad and as a result we should not discriminate them. They are pretty stupid though.--Jammidodger 13:59, 1 March 2007 (UTC) :)

A chav, by definition is bad! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)


 * Yeah, I think that paticular paragraph must have been a recent addition. I've given the whole thing a copyedit, removed some unsourced ludicrous claims etc. Cheers for bringing it up. --Robdurbar 10:40, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Disambiguation
I noticed that several links on the rest of europe section direct to the wrong articles. As an example Guna, Mitra, Brian and Manele. Could the editors of these (or someone else) create the proper articles and the disambiguation? AxiomShell 13:19, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


 * We could just scrap the whole unsourced ugly section... --Robdurbar 15:36, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Lily Allen
What about Lily Allen? She's one of the biggest celeb chavs.Nukleoptra 18:16, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I have added an entry for her. As an American the first time I ever heard of the word was the repeated references in the comments section of her videos displayed on You Tube. I also added an entry for Tony Blair's Comic Relief imitation. I did hear part Blair's act on a radio newscast here and the word chav was used but have found no reference to the Prime Minster's act on that news organization or any other U.S. news organizations website.

Lily Allen went to Hill house. She's as far from a chav as you could find, at least in background. If you do think she's a chav, she's an exception, not a rule. She shouldn't be on the page, certainly! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk) I dont think class or background has anything to do with being a chav or not it is the way the people act that make them a chav

Lily Allen is by *no* means a Chav! She is 100% mockney, but not a chav. 77.101.226.44 (talk) 06:23, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

pikey not a synonym for chav
In East Anglia the word "pikey" refers to gypsy or travelling people. I assume it is the same elsewhere. Can "pikey" please be dropped from the list of synonyms 'less someone can produce a reference.

There are a large number of synonyms and regional variations of "chav", including "scally", "townie", "ned", "kev", "yarco", "dobber", "Mallie"[6], "Meader"[7], and in some areas, "Pikey".

Although some crossover must exist between "pikey" and "gypsy" groups they are considered to be separate.

Tarj 01:43, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * See the etymology for the word Chav. As in most cases it originates from a Romany word there is therefore a high correlation between slang words for gypsies and the word chav. -- Roleplayer 02:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm from East Anglia, For a short while Pikey became synonmous with "cheap and nasty" (for instance "that's a pikey car"). However for FAR longer (as far back as i can remember) it's been related to travellers, and appears to have returned to that status. In my experience when "Chav Culture" first started in 2001 or so (it evolved out of Laddism from the 90's) they where referred to as Barry Boys or Barry's in Cambridgeshire, and the term Chav didnt really become popular until about 2004, when The Sun started to go on about them. Barry Boy can still be used as a term, most notably on the barryboys.co.uk website, which mocks poorly-modified cars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.153.230.130 (talk) 15:10, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * As i understand it, traditionally a pikey was a gypsy that would set up a turnpike tollbooth, and attempts to charge passers by for using the road. 'course i have no sources :D although dictionary.com agrees that the etymology is from turnpike. This would make it quite different from the meaning of a chav. SirEelBiscuits (talk) 13:45, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * "Pikey" is an offensive term for a gypsy or traveller on the basis that they travelled up and down the turnpikes, not that they set them up. Turnpikes were controlled by the wealthy. Itsmejudith (talk) 14:05, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * In the south of England at least, a 'pikey' is not the same as a 'chav', surely it should be the actual usage of the word which is most important in that part of the description, not its history? 82.18.130.161 (talk) 23:13, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * My family has always used Pikey as a derogatory term and it certainly does not equate with Chav/Chavo/Chavi which is a friendly term. My people would use the term Pikey to mean a 'half breed' or non pure Romany Gypsy. I think this ties in with itsmejudith's post which also sounds (to me) that the word was used as a mockery of certain travellers by others who class themselves as better. Another name which does equate with Pikey is what my Grandfather used which is 'Hedge-mumper'. Again, not a term of endearment but meaning pretty much the same thing as pikey. The inference is that this traveller slept in the hedges rather than in a 'proper' trailer! All of this is of course from our family but I have no citations to back it up although I am sure other Romany people reading this will agree. --Gyppoman (talk) 19:05, 5 May 2011 (UTC)


 * In West Drayton, Uxbridge, and west Middx generally, pikey is a term to refer to the people who deficate on the floors of shops and supermarkets, who brutally murder those with whom they have (often criminal) disputes, and who generally offend the majority of the law-abiding population. Please draw a distinction between linguistic etymology and the language as it is used, and has been for at least the 30 years of my rememberance. Or just be PC.

"Classism" Not Relevant Here
When a group clearly defines itself by dress and behavior, and others refer to them by creating a name for the group, it is inappropriate to call it "classism" or "racism". (The key phrase here is "defines itself". A deliberate act.) Classism is an economic distinction over which many have little power, and race is likewise something that people cannot control. Naming a group of people who deliberately dress and act alike is neither classism or racism! -- Jane Q. Public 04:46, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. As most people using the term "chav" are themselves of a working class background, it is difficult to see how it can be classist or elitist term. Just more middle-class lefty brow-beating guilt-trip to call it such... 77.101.226.44 (talk) 06:26, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Southeast London 1997
I remember the word "chav" but more often "chavvy" definitely being used in 1997 possibly earlier, it meant "boy" and usually not derogatory, but "common", it was usually used as a friendly term of address similar to say "bruv", "cuz" or "homey". Carlwev 10:44, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Pikey vs chav
I remember the word "pikey" was used in a derogatory way to refer to the stereotype anti social chav now depicted in the chav article. But around 1999 there became the distinction that: A pikey had to be a traveler or from a traveler family, usually used in a derogatory way to refer to the stereotype anti social traveler, but sometimes used in a derogatory or non-derogatory way to refer to any traveler whether they were anti-social or not - (What it had meant long before). - And a chav is the young anti-social stereotype what it means now. By now chav had long stopped being used for a friendly term of address. Carlwev 10:44, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

White Trash vs Chav
They both are very derogatory terms referring to lower class people that are not educated and drink a lot. The biggest difference in the meaning from what I read of chav on this page and how I hear white trash used in the states is that white trash does not have a criminal connotation. While people have contempt for white trash the pure hatred I see directed towered the chavs does not exist here. What does a have a connotation of criminality is the stereotype of black people who wear pants hanging low and caps worn backwards (that style has faded out) No single word to describe that look caught on in the states the way chav did in England. White Trash is mostly used in comedic routines. In the last few years the person most often described as white trash is Britney Spears. White Trash is not used to describe people in regular news articles. Edkollin 05:00, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Lower class people in the UK have generally been seen as criminals - previous terms such as yobbo had the same connotation. As for "pure hatred" this article is particularly bad and a long way from NPOV. This reflects the ammount of snobbery in the UK and the demographics of our contributors. It's a long way from being Wikipedia's best. Secretlondon 19:26, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I beg to differ, 'Ed'. Perhaps in those funny little red counties that re-elected Bush 'white trash' and 'redneck' are friendly terms, but there is definitely genuine hate towards and a criminal connotation with the term in NY and San Fran (both places in which I have lived and regularly witnessed this sentiment), most recently this has been portrayed in the media by the gypsy family on FX's The Riches (gypsies are the same thing as white trash/redneck/hick). If a person fitting that label lived near my house, I would certainly feel it necessary to lock up my garage and would suspect them to be involved in some sort of criminal activity. And 'wigger' is a perfect "single word" that's equivilant to chav, the ONLY difference is that chav is not race limited, and wigger is limited to whites (and at times Asians) whilst Hispanics and African-Americans are not labelled the same way in America (although the stereotype exists, they're given a pass in our politically correct society) except by racists (usually). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.39.34.170 (talk) 12:48, 4 May 2007 (UTC).

Use of "sweatpants"
As this is a British related article, wouldn't it make more sense to use "track suit bottoms" rather than "sweatpants" in the article? --82.153.4.68 18:27, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Better known as Trakkies, Or Traki's in arab terms.
 * Makes sense, Done Rob 21:16, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

User:Jetwave Dave 28/06/07 00:59AM but wearing track suit bottoms does not make u a chav ,or living on a council  estate it is simply down to the way u act .--Lauie (talk) 23:54, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

See Also: Canada
The term "Skeet" should probably be included in there. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=skeet&defid=639227. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Baykur (talk • contribs)

Russian synonym
I would like to add Russian synonym of chavs. In Russia they are called "Gop".

You can find article describing this subcultural notion in russian wikipedia http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%BE%D0%BF

This is a livejournal community http://community.livejournal.com/gopota concerning Gop

And here are some pictures of them

http://www.ljplus.ru/img3/l/a/laxyn/8pat8a.jpg http://img1.nnm.ru/imagez/gallery/doci/dsf/dsfsdf-1165419243_i_9464.jpg http://img1.nnm.ru/imagez/gallery/doci/dsf/dsfsdf-1165416999_i_4774_full.jpg http://www.ljplus.ru/img/b/i/bigpipon/normal_IMG_2177.jpg http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e174/sn2op/abibas.jpg http://www.softfacade.com/gop.jpg http://ru.fishki.net/picsr/mail/avvvar.jpg http://ru.fishki.net/picsr/mail/navech.jpg http://img.dirty.ru/warehouse/craps/iofstkpp.jpg http://img344.imageshack.us/img344/7373/viewcn0.jpg —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Surjo (talk • contribs) 15:30, 4 May 2007 (UTC).
 * These are just poor whites? We're really not interested.. Secretlondon 00:14, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Belgian and French synonyms
Belgium : chicho, baraki

France : tchawa, minch, prol, wesh wesh, racaille

Wigger
I suppose wigger (white nigger?) is an American approximation for chav as it applies to whites who affect the African-American ghetto lifestyle or culture. Basically morons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.203.104.202 (talk • contribs)
 * There is more to it ("whites who affect the African-American ghetto lifestyle or culture") than that in my opinion. Rob 21:17, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes? And? WiccaWeb 05:19, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

wigger in my opinion is not a american approximation for chav because i think that there are some peoplle who like to act and think they are balck so in my opinion wigger is more of american approximation for a "wanna be gangsta "  '''and i believe that "chavs " are just troubled youyhs with no where to go or nothing to do  which is not down to their  parents but down to the govenment--Lauie (talk) 23:59, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, right: it's all the government's fault that this yobs have been failed by their parents. Oh, don't forget to blame their school teachers too while you are at it... What a cop-out - time some people took responsibility for their own (in)actions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.101.226.44 (talk) 06:31, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Main picture
I suggest the main picture be replaced by the one of Gollum from Lord of the Rings as a chav (http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=Gollum+chav&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2). The current picture is quite cartoony and doesn't capture how distasteful they actually are. It looks almost cuddly, like some unruly kid, rather than the pseudo-methhead pallid-skinned spitting reality.

I will substitute this dozey chave with a more apropriate immage.--86.29.241.65 17:22, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

What happened to "Townie"?
Why was it deleted? I had an article that was linked to "Townie" (in the University sense), so I'm quite glad I just decided to follow up the link. Serendipodous 19:51, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

about ali g
question... is Ali G, sacha cohen's character, a chav? I'm an american and not sure about chavs. so is ali g chav or junglist or both?


 * Probably, as his car (a poorly modified Renault if I'm not mistaken) his clothes and the way he speaks are common characteristics of 'Chavs' in modern culture. Colt M4  Reload 21:55, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Finnish synonym
I would like to see a Finnish synonym added. I recommend the word "amis" or if possible, listing both "amis" and "pissis". There is slight difference in the meaning of these words, but I think amis is better match of these two. The word amis comes from ammattikoulu, which means vocational training school. Amis guys like to add spoilers, furry dices to their cars and do all kind of tuning. They often try to grow mustache or just don't care shaving every day and because of that have often fine hair on the upper lip. They like wearing sweat suit and baseball cap. Amis is often used as a prefix, like "amiskundi" which means "amis-guy".

Pissis is newer term and although is similar to amis, doesn't contain the desire for tuning cars or mustache. The term pissis comes originally from the word pissiliisa (which means pissing Lisa) and describes the fact that they tend to drink too much cider or beer and then urinate on public places. Pissis is more often used when talking about girls and amis is used more often when talking about teenage boys. Pissis doesn't have to come from undereducated family and she/he can go to high school, where as amis person just goes to vocational training. Pissis not often used as a prefix.


 * There are equivalents in most countries,but do they all have to be thoroughly described?In Sweden they are(or used to be at least)called Kickers.They usually wear sport related clothing such as baseball caps,Fila shoes,adidas sweaters.Originally they were associated with the techno and acid music scene but since the late 1990`s they are associated to various types of rap and hiphop.They apparently got the name "kickers" from the popular use of Tae-Kwon-Do shoes which were suitable for kicking "enemies".Staffordshire bullterriers are apparently the most common type of pet seen with them.Maybe a brief list with the names used for chav-like subcultures in different countries would be interesting,but in-depth descriptions of every single chav-like subculture in every single country that has one will be pretty tiring and only interesting to people in the country in question.Let´s face it,few people in English speaking countries will be interested in in-depth studies of Chav-inspired subcultures in small countries they hardly know where to find on the map.//C.L —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.216.34.158 (talk) 01:46, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

lady sovereign
Lady sovereign considers herself a chav.

Daniella Westbrook
Article looks well-balanced, would like to see mention of what was surely a defining role by Daniella Westbrook in associating Burberry with Chava/Charva culture.
 * As it happens, this has a good source. BBC NewsItsmejudith 22:32, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Happy Hardcore and Northern Charvas
In the north, charvas almost exclusively play Happy Hardcore and New Monkey on the speakers of their mobiles and through their car stereos, R&B and rap is more symptomatic of Southern charvs.

"Chavs are often racist"
I removed this statement as it's unjust, of all these so called "chavs" I have known none of them have been exclusively racist.


 * Agreed. We should try and avoid sweeping statements such as this wherever possible. -- Roleplayer 17:16, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

but you are basicaly describing the black ethnicity, althogh all african americans arent like that most are, including some of the rappers. my brother happens to fit into every trait that was describing chavs exept unintellegent, he is the first person to actually have finished college in my family. what does that make us, we arent chavs. i no for a fact that im goth, my cousin is emo, on websites that ive been on i see things about killing chavs all the time and never cared what they are. but it apears to be singling out a single race as chavs. i have three gold earings in my ear, a gold ring on my finger, and a gold necklace every day, and have no respect for society because of the way that they treat me, does that make me a chav. its just assinine to single someone out like that for nothing, there was a discussion farther up about white trash vs chavs. chavs seem to be hated so much that they are losing to the real trash. white trash has no respect for society, and even seems to be racist at times, but there was never a big thing made about it.

Staffordshire Bull Terriers
Seems that this article has missed one of the great identifiers of being a Chav - certainly in the South East of England. Not every Chav has a dog, but where they do, it is ALWAYS a Staffy.

Word origin?
I was always under the impression that "chav" is "chaff," as "spiv" is "spiff." Now spiff relates to male pride in dress, but chaff literally means "waste." It was a term used for parts of harvested wheat disposed of, and also meant "shit." In fact, Martin Luther used the term meaning shit in the speech he made gloating about the slaughter of peasants by the princes during the Peasant Wars, "The heads of the peasants are full of chaff." That would work, especially with the origin of the word "chav" as an insult.JBDay 19:00, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I heard it was council houses and violence Vitual aelita (talk) 15:42, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Cañí is not chav
144.32.60.229 22:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC)According to the Real Academia Española de la Lengua (www.rae.es), cañí is an adjective meaning "belonging to the gypsy race". It is not of common use. As a matter of fact, one rarely hears it except in the phrase "la España cañí", referring to folkloric Spain. However, even when cañí refers to gypsies, it cannot be translated as chav, since Spanish gypsies and chavs have absolutely nothing in common.

Though there are people in Spain who certainly share the chav aesthetic, I am not aware that there is a Spanish translation of chav. Probably, the urban tribe sharing most of the chavs' attributes are the so-called bakalas: track suits, short skirts, bling, aggressive dogs, caps, (generally fake) brands etc. 144.32.60.229 22:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

It's not fair to tar all teens with the same brush
If you have read the whole of the chav article for wikipedia, you may be thinking that it sounds like a typical teenager, always drinking, always terrorizing, going 150 mph down a 30mph primary school area, attacking vunerable people but in reality only around 30% of teens actually do that, the other 70% will rather just want to have fun in life but because of these "chavs" all of us teens are viewed as delinquits and dangerous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.201.191 (talk) 18:34, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Chav is an acronym
Council Housed And Violent becasue that is how they are regarded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.73.8.250 (talk) 02:31, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Ingnorance and classism of the highest order! Dudley Moore was from a council house and so was Paul McCartney, Ringo Starr and George (violent) Harrison! Ever seen an Officer from Public School and Sandhurst kick the living daylights out of an innocent man in Northern Ireland? I have, the perverted upper class bastard was cumming in his knickers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.104.223.187 (talk) 10:39, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm from a council House (flat to be precise) but I'm not a chav. I don't think the backronym is in anyway ignorant or classist, nor do I find it offensive. I doubt any of the people listed in this post would find the word chav offensive, being as they're not chavs anyway. Kinda missing the point about the Officer in relation to chav, but I'm working class, what would I know. Katiepotatie 14:15, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Please don't carry on the conversation any further here as it is not about improvements to the article. Thanks. Itsmejudith 15:36, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Charv/Charver - Male
This article seems to state that 'charv' or 'charver' (i.e. the Northern/North East term) is only used for male charvers? I live in Newcastle and in my experience this is just downright untrue. Anyone have an objection to it being changed? Katwin 15:56, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

No objections my end, I'm from Newcastle and 'charver' applied to both genders - will change if no objections? BNC85 17:16, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Have changed accordingly - didn't notice that someone had actually made the 'charver' gender specific. This is indeed untrue, especially in Newcastle and the North East BNC85 17:19, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Barry Boy
Seems to be a term synonymous with chav in describing a type of person or behaviour which is on the one hand aspirational yet on the other lacks any taste or intelligence (according to the definition). And of course is openly mocked. Cars seem to be an integral part, see: urban dictionary & Over 57,000 photos of shit looking cars! Hakluyt bean (talk) 17:39, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Pictures
I saw a chav today and took some pictures of him. He didn't wear Burberry, but it should be better than an artistic rendition. SteveSims (talk) 22:43, 14 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, but what if the guy was just pretending to be a chav? Itsmejudith (talk) 22:48, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No, he's a real chav. He wasn't parodying anyone or anything. He was at a political protest that had nothing to do with chavs so he had no reason to parody them. SteveSims (talk) 22:55, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No source for him being a chav though and I doubt whether he would approve of the label, so it has to go back to the cartoon. I would miss the cartoon chav too. Itsmejudith (talk) 20:52, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Great Picture, but I'm afraid I have to concur that we can't be sure this is a chav. (Unless you have footage of antisocial behaviour, documentary evidence of benefit claims or DNA proof of paternity of half a dozen illegitimate children;-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scruffy brit (talk • contribs) 13:30, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ummmm... What would a chav be doing at a political protest??? Not really their scene...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.101.226.44 (talk) 06:36, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Just a rumor
I've heard chav stands for Council Houses And Violence

Vitual aelita (talk) 15:40, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * If you look in the article you'll see that this backronym is already mentioned. Itsmejudith (talk) 15:42, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Hersham Boys - early reference
The claim in the article that Sham 69's Hersham Boys contains a reference to 'Chavvy' does not appear to be true. Out of 4 versions of the lyrics from different web sites, I found none that contained that word. The claim should be removed.

Northernmunkeh (talk) 15:59, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I have just listened again to Hersham Boys (Sham 69) and it definitely sounds to me that Jimmy Purcey is speaking Romay and does say the word chav/chavvy. I also checked the online lyrics pages and see that almost all of them while not listing the words, instead use question marks to indicate that they don't understand what he is saying. Which is fair enough. I will try to listen to it a few more times and will get some of my Romany speaking friends/family to confirm what is being said. I will then update here.--Gyppoman (talk) 19:05, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Dave - The line "Dick eye chavvy, its the mud town slosher" definitely does feature in the song Hersham Boys which is about working class kids from provincial areas "Cockney Cowboys!" The Romany reference was likely a nod to their drummer Mark Cain, who went by the band nickname Kakker Cain, which most likely means that the band believed him to be a Gypsy.

Time to replace that lame cartoon picture
This is one of those situations where I feel like we can do quite a bit better as far as pictures of chavs go. A real photograph of a stereotypical chav outside of McDonald's or something I think would be quite a bit better. There has to be thousands out there that are fair to use Danis1911 (talk) 22:53, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I doubt if any photo would be fair to use ... unless an editor wanted to photograph himself or herself and release the photo to WP. Any volunteers? Itsmejudith (talk) 13:00, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Would this photo be any good? He looks like a chav, but it would be better with some jewellery, and taken on a street corner or something. He does have the burberry though. -- how do you turn this on  13:29, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Well it sure does look like an anti-chav dressing up for a laugh. Itsmejudith (talk) 13:41, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * This new image is even worse. There are chavs around where I live, but I wouldn't dare go up to them with a camera asking to take a photo. I really think the flickr one looks OK. -- how do you turn this on  21:32, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Phonetics of dialogue
I motion that the following should be put into the article under the heading "Phonetics of dialogue":

Speech within Chav culture can often be hard to make sense of, even to Donnies. Below is an example of a conversation between a young boy on his cellphone and an imposing chav:

Chav: Ask fookin' spiv over'ere what's phone, meffed!

Boy: Uh...I think he's runnin' the show...

Chav: Uh, no, meffed...vat phone. Wha? Is vat, like, fookin' mine now or summut?

Boy: Uh, I don't fink so. I'm just talkin' t'me grandma...

Chav: So what, dickhead, give fookin' grandma'r'over 'ere!

Grandma: Gnee, us fibble wissem me long johns...

Chav: I say, fookin' grandma, what's we aren't gettin' tea for, like, y'fookin' biddy? Gorra fookin' reverse charge call n' fookin' e-mails'n'vat t'check, now, aren't i'? Said, fookin' spice rack over there, fookin' dig deep a sec n' grab us o' y'duds, like, from one o' them fookin' pookwahs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.35.4.220 (talk) 13:23, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I see no reason to include this unencyclopedic original research. Glass  Cobra  13:25, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree with GlassCobra. I don't see what improvement this adds. And it's original research and unencyclopedic. -- how do you turn this on  13:30, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The claims to this being original research can be disproven. The dialogue being used in my proposal for the phonetics subsection are indeed lifted (more or less word-for-word) from this video on Fat-Pie.com wherein a stereostpical Chav (in fact, the animated precursor to the real-life chav character of Devvo (also a creation by Firth at Fat-Pie)).  Fat-Pie.com is a valid reference for Wikipedia material, as is evidenced by the Salad Fingers article.  Hence, it is not original research.  As for it being unencyclopedic, that is a gray area.  One could argue that it is very much encyclopedic as it contributes an otherwise unexplored section of Chav culture within the body of the article (speech). 72.35.4.220 (talk) 16:49, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Unless someone has written in a reliable source that this is an example of how chavs speak then it is not usable. Itsmejudith (talk) 16:51, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Image
The guy who kept changing the image yesterday has now resorted to uploading over the current image over at Commons. I've already reverted the change, but this is so ridiculous. Are any Commons admins watching this page that can protect that image indefinitely to stop this kind of nonsense? -- how do you turn this on  15:51, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * See Suspected sock puppets/72.35.4.220. Thanks. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 16:10, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Best to ask for assistance on Commons. However this came to my attention (via Wikipedia Review!) so I've reverted and protected the image on Comons. ++Lar: t/c 16:53, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Erm, you reverted back to the "bad" version! :-) I already reverted it. Mind changing it back? -- how do you turn this on  16:59, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Things were moving fast, the protection, reversion, etc was happening quickly. Purge the article, all is well now I think you will find. The original cartoon version (not the photoshopped picture one) is the keeper. The photoshopped one has now been uploaded to Commons by your edit warring IP as Image:Chavar.jpg... so be on the lookout for more edit warring, would be my prediction. And this time don't let it get out of hand, ask for help, ok??? Let's not have any 3RR blocks against people trying to maintain the consensus version. ++Lar: t/c 17:09, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Good stuff. And yes, it was moving fast. I'll request page protection should this be happening again. -- how do you turn this on  17:13, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I've (on en:wp) blocked User:Jerry Steinbeck who tried an insertion, for 24. That blocks the IP underneath, if they keep trying, ask for semiprotection, that should do the trick to get things calm... full probably isn't needed unless I'm missing some sleepers. (I did a CU too). This is a lame thing to edit war over, I must say. ++Lar: t/c 17:16, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * No, we may need a range block here, the next user is from an similar but not identical IP. ++Lar: t/c 17:56, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I have made an "official" checkuser request, here. Thanks for your help so far, Lar. -- how do you turn this on  18:05, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I may not be the CU to handle it, so encourage the CU to look at my block log here and on commons or just ask me what I found when I ran these myself. Should be pretty open and shut really. ++Lar: t/c 18:45, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * There's already a CU open: Requests for checkuser/Case/72.35.4.220. It's clear now that this is Swamilive, so perhaps the name should be changed, but I'll leave that to a CU or clerk to decide. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 21:15, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed, I've asked a clerk to close the newer one I created. -- how do you turn this on  21:17, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I've put back the image of the teenager-if that lad is not dressed as a chav, Pildeuhl, what would you call his style, preppy?--jeanne (talk) 05:58, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Chava or Charva! WHAT?
In the opening sentence it syas that Chavs are cometimes known as Chava or Charva but I have never heard these terms before are there any sources for this that are reliable? Becasue I think that it mayh just be somebody making it up. The Quill (talk) 16:00, 15 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Charver/Charva etc is used in the north-east of England. 167.1.176.4 (talk) 11:59, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

section removed
I have removed the stereotypes types section becuase it is off topic for most part and a adolescent rant against bias wikipedia members. I quote "it shows the levels society has fallen to". For these reason i have replaced the topic with the "chavs as a subculture" Theunhappymitten (talk)theunhappymitten —Preceding undated comment was added at 19:25, 18 November 2008 (UTC).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav#Chavs_as_a_subculture
Complete bullshit. Should be removed in its entirety. I'd do it myself but would prolly get banned for vandalism. --Piepie (talk) 01:20, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Theunhappymitten (talk)theunhappymittenTheunhappymitten (talk) Bullshit ?

You can remove chavs as a subculture as many times as you like i will just keep uploading it

No not at all i have rewrote my article took a good 10 mins now i have saved it onto word so i can quickly copy and paste it back up if some vandal try to take it off... again —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theunhappymitten (talk • contribs) 17:35, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Hoodies
I removed the section about hoodies. Hoodies are not an item of clothing traditionally linked with chavs, but rather their use by young criminals in order to hide their identity. In fact, many young law-abiding non-chav people wear hoodies, it is only the tabloids that have tarred hoodies with the criminal brush. However, hoodies (as a person) and chavs are not the same thing. Chavs are not necessarily law-breakers and are more defined by their dress code, their music, their slang and their attitude, such as how many celebrities get called chavs. Hoodies are specifically young people who wear hoods to intimidate or commit crimes. I'm not saying anyone who wears a hoodie is a criminal but it is the tabloids who have created the term 'hoodie' to refer to such a person, and this is what Bluewater was reacting to, not Chavs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.213.102.73 (talk) 21:50, 11 December 2008 (UTC)