Talk:Cheap Trick/Archive 1

Picture
theres no picture of bun e carlos, but lots of pictures of the other members  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.177.93.235 (talk) 04:39, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Genres
Shouldn't the genres list them as power pop too? Cao 00:59, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Pop Punk?!!!
Ok, how are they even a little punk? Am I missing something. They seem more like pop rock, but where is the punk? The Ungovernable Force 19:45, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

CUZ I WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANT YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU TO WANT ME. I NEEEEEEEEEEED YOUUUUUUUUUU TO NEED ME. I'D LOOOOOOOOOOVE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUU TO LOVE ME, OH IM BEEEEEEEEEGGIN YOU TO BEG ME. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.227.151.159 (talk • contribs)

Genre: just rock, 'm'kay?
In general, Wikipedia prefers that more general categories be used, especially in an infobox. Other genres can be mentioned in the body of the article, if necessary. Since there doesn't seem to be a concensus here, I've just switched it to "rock", which is nice and inarguable. Listing dozens of sub-sub-genres is more appropriate for a fan site than an encyclopedia. If everyone can agree on a specific sub-genre, fine, use that instead, but don't list four! Pick one! And try to make it a fairly general one, not some super-specific sub-genre. Personally, I think "rock" is just fine. (p.s. I was born in 1959, was a big fan back in the day, and don't think I ever heard them referred to as "punk" by anyone. Some new wave got mislabelled as punk, but "true" punk rockers usually objected strongly.)  (p.p.s. rock and roll on Wikipedia usually refers to very early, 1950s-style rock.)   Xtifr tälk 08:54, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Reference needed for claim of "pop punk"
Well, as i see it, there is punk-ness to them because they are a miss-matched group from the middle of nowhere, Rockford, Illinois. Yet they did form before the original punk movement, it's a tough one. They are definitely cited by Green Day, The Methadones, Propagandhi (destroyed "i want you to want me"), and others. However we really need a solid reference here. SO, to the write of that statement, please provide one if not more sources (ideally from the early 80s/or even '79) that actually uses the description "pop punk" when describing the sound of Cheap Trick. I will do some research to. I have been really active on the pop punk article and have been looking for the first mention of "pop punk." Our best guess right now, (as noted in the discussion section) is that The Descendents the first "pop punk" band. They are cited by blink-182, and a slew of other bands, and they have roots in hardcore punk which makes them eligible to be defined as a "pop punk" meaning combining the upbeat aspects of the original punk rock bands with the trends in contemporary music. For Cheap Trick, we'd need a source that described them as "pop punk" which would warrant them possibly the first band to be described as "pop punk" (when references are checked), but they still may not BE the first "pop punk" band because it need to be asserted that they were aware of punk and were influenced by punk when they were writing their songs. As it is, based on the genres listed in their band box and the categories listed at the bottom, we see "power pop" which is of no dispute, "pre-punk groups" which may indicate that they would be considered a fore-bearer to punk rock, which would in some way make it hard for them to then claim to be influenced by punk, though that might be possible to show, if the proper references can be found, "New Wave" which i really dont associate with Cheap Trick (but ok), and "rock and roll" which is plain obvious. Again, we just need the sources and were golden. In the meantime I will make a note of it in the pop punk talk page, but for now in my head i'm still thinking of the Descendents as the first pop punk band. Word. Xsxex 00:24, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I've observed that it's often really difficult for younger listeners today to understand just how malleable a term "punk" was prior to about 1978. Anazgnos 19:16, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Joey Ramone was big Cheap Trick fan. I saw Joey backstage at a CT date in San Diego in 1980 or 81. I was a student at SDSU working security. So, if Joey dug them, thats good enough for me. http://www.nyrock.com/reviews/2001/joey_lives.asp —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.84.114.175 (talk • contribs) 03:12, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * So if Joey Ramone had been spotted backstage at a Mozart concert, would that mean that we'd have to start calling Mozart "classical punk"? :)  Xtifr tälk 18:51, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

As with others, I totally fail to understand why anyone could consider Cheap Trick 'Pop Punk'. They have all the hallmarks of a conventional rock band - tuneful vocals, blues-based guitar solos, long hair, etc. I think there is a good case for removing the reference to 'pop punk'.Robojam 16:52, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Live DVD
I'm in Australia and have just purchased the Live DVD. Details verbatim off cover: Front: Cheap Trick Recorded Live at Selena's, Sydney, 1988

umbrella music www.umbrellaent.com.au

I'll leave it to others to alter the entry Francis Xavier Holden 16:22, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Trivia Removal
I removed the following, but suggest replacing it into the correct history section; I don't know when the cover band was formed: An all-female tribute band impersonates them humorously, Cheap Chick.

I removed references to their songs when they did not perform them:
 * Cheap Trick's song "Surrender" was featured in a Universal Studios commercial performed by the band Less Than Jake, and appears on their 2003 album, Anthem.
 * A cover version of their song "Surrender" appears on Guitar Hero II for the Playstation 2 and Xbox 360.
 * Their song Voices was performed in the tenth episode of CBS's sitcom How I Met Your Mother by the drunk Ted calling Robin on the phone and falling on the floor.

I don't understand the significance of Robin Zander's guitars because I'm unfamiliar with the instruments, so I left that part in. If it is simply trivia, someone who knows about guitars should remove it. Voskoboinikov 21:26, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

(2004-2007) Independence
I removed the following because it read more like a concert review and fan gushing than simple facts of the band:

-The tour de force of the night rightfully came during "A Day in the Life," with a marvelously chilling lead vocal from Robin Zander delivered against a dramatic soundscape of Cheap Trick and a full orchestra that left an undeniable impression on the sold out crowd and had all in attendance immediately rise to their feet when the final chord of the work was struck.

-Another highlight of the evening was the band's performance of George Harrison's "Within You Without You" with an Indian instrumental ensemble, including sitar, and other percussive instruments, arguably attaining a sound quite faithful to the original 40-year-old recording.

-The entire ensemble of singers and musicians were called back for an encore, performing "All You Need Is Love," the perfect song to reinforce the spirit of a special night not soon forgotten.

-Since the late 1970s, Cheap Trick has been one of the hardest working bands in America, performing at clubs, arenas and festivals while recording terrific collections blending power pop, punk and modern rock. The band's performance of the Beatles classic "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" may have solidified Cheap Trick's greatness as living legends of the american musical landscape.

-Ain't it a shame this band is not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Yet, it is only a matter of time as this true talent as exhibited by Cheap Trick cannot be denied. EricInTx 21:36, 12 August 2007 (UTC)EricInTx

discrepancy of Red Ant Alliance bankruptcy
This page says "Seven weeks after the release, Red Ant/Alliance declared Chapter 11" but the page for the record Cheap Trick (1997) says "Red Ant filed for bankruptcy three weeks after the album's release"

Anyone know which is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.139.185.198 (talk) 19:12, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Todd Howarth played keyboards for Cheap Trick on the road. He is referenced on the Silver album by Rick Nielson. I have also seen him at some shows. Rick made a comment that he was in the band Kansas, but I cannot confirm68.104.231.165 (talk) 00:02, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Pop Punk
I'm going to add Pop Punk to the original article as a genre, as their first album was very punk influenced, obvious on all of the tracks. They've even said they were part of the Punk craze when they toured Japan. Seriously, if you can't tell some punk is in their debut, than you know not what punk is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KILLER BOB11694 (talk • contribs) 03:13, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Controversial Audi commercial
The article says: "In 2010, Cheap Trick's 'Dream Police,' re-recorded as 'Green Police,' appeared as the music bed in a controversial Audi commercial that first aired during the Super Bowl."

What was the source of the controversy? The article simply says "controversial" but never explains why it was considered controversial... can info on the controversy be added? —Mmathu (talk) 08:19, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Another source
Found this - Jack Sebastian (talk) 14:11, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Link to Dagmar Krause
The article says: "Petersson left the group and went on to tour with various acts, eventually recording a solo album with his wife Dagmar, who had previously recorded with Kevin Coyne and others." I suppose this Dagmar must be Dagmar Krause. But nothing is to be found on her bio about having been married to Petersson, neither about her recording an LP with him. As no cross-links can be made, are we really sure the statement is correct ? Or do I misunderstand it ?

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Pierre.becquart --81.245.125.124 (talk) 17:16, 11 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Different person. Piriczki (talk) 23:09, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

The band name
An old and oft repeated story says that Cheap Trick got the band name from a Ouija Board. Any reliable sources out there to confirm or disprove this? 67.187.248.232 (talk) 08:57, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Rick Nielsen says that the band name was born when they saw Slade performing in Philadelphia.

Source :

http://www.swtimes.com/articles/2009/06/25/features/features062309_03.txt 84.130.227.104 (talk) 16:16, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

The Ouija Board story is someone mis-remembering the origins of the name "Alice Cooper". The origin of the "Cheap Trick" name was mentioned in at least one interview with Bun E.Carlos, where he related someone saying they saw a band - possibly Slade - having a big production show , and how they pulled out "every cheap trick in the book". And, Rick Nielsen was inspired. 75.104.163.77 (talk) 20:25, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Bun E. Carlos
In this article, based on this podcast, Robin Zander insists on Bun E. Carlos being a band member, though Rick Nielsen's son, Daxx, fills in for him. Shouldn't the article reflect this, instead of listing him as just an ex-member?--Gorpik (talk) 09:14, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Have to say, I find this one a tangled enigma too. The band have stated several times, Bun is "officially" still a band member … he's just not touring with them … and during this "official" capacity , hasn't played on the last two studio album releases. ( Not to mention releasing his own solo album in 2016. ). So, what form "official" takes , is really questionable. Is it so he still has a say in the "Cheap Trick" "brand" ? Is it just to avoid a lot of messy legalese ? Hard to call. Maybe he should be listed as a current member, but with an explanatory asterisk? 75.104.163.77 (talk) 20:33, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Who played keyboards on all these albums?
I just listened to the greatest hits, and nearly every song has substantial reliance on keyboard fills and effects. Anyone know who played all the keyboards? Is there some "invisible 5th member"? --Torchpratt (talk) 09:24, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

The simple answer: Various people. If you were to consult the liner notes for individual albums, you'd find them. They were pretty thorough on the original releases - compilation albums … not so much. There was never one specific keyboardist on every album, even the core members of the band do some keyboard work. For example, Robin and Rick play some keyboards on "The Latest" , Rick plays keys on "One On One" & "All Shook Up" , producer George Martin played on "World's Greatest Lover" ,  Danny Louis is the keyboard player on "Sgt.Pepper Live" … etc.  75.104.163.77 (talk) 18:23, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Formation date
I can’t figure out when the band was formed. This page currently says the band was formed in 1974, but there isn’t a source offered in support of that statement. Browsing around online, I see two sources that say the band formed in 1974 (https://www.discogs.com/artist/132066-Cheap-Trick and https://web.archive.org/web/20141024144442/http://www.classicwebs.com/cheaptrk.htm, for whatever they are worth). I also see two sources that say 1973 (https://www.npr.org/2013/04/06/176369591/rick-nielsen-of-cheap-trick-plays-not-my-job and https://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/cheap-trick-oral-history-nielsen-zander-carlos-rockford/Content?oid=21705064). A Rolling Stone piece says that the band formed “circa 1973,” but then contradicts itself by stating that the band formed in 1974 (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/cheap-trick-find-heaven-81582/).

I am beginning to wonder if the band itself doesn’t remember when it formed...

Does anyone have any thoughts? SunCrow (talk) 05:16, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * A 2016 article from Rolling Stone (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/inside-cheap-tricks-unlikely-renaissance-194122/) says the following: "Every scrap of paper Nielsen pulls out of a box has a story, like the receipts from the Traveler Motel in Bettendorf, Iowa, on August 14th, 1973. It shows the band checking in as Sick Man of Europe and checking out the next night as Cheap Trick, marking the exact moment they came up with the group’s final name." Based on that, I'm going with 1973. SunCrow (talk) 04:50, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

Lacking sources
This article needs many more than 35 in-line citations to support its 5,500 words. For a non-GA comparison, the Def Leppard article has 5,700 words and 92 in-line citations. Fdssdf (talk) 19:48, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I am tagging the article accordingly. SunCrow (talk) 06:12, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

Cheap Trick "is" an American rock band
On 1 August 2019 the article changed from "Cheap Trick is an American rock band" to "Cheap Trick are an American rock band".

The band name is a collective noun, and "In North American English, these words ... are almost invariably treated as singular" per MOS:SINGULAR.

The article on collective nouns also supports "is", which states "In American English, ... Collective proper nouns are usually taken as singular ..., unless the plural is explicit in the proper noun itself" (which it is not for Cheap Trick). Also noting that "In British English, it is generally accepted that collective nouns can take either singular or plural verb forms".

It is also mentioned in the article on American and British English grammatical differences which states "In American English (AmE), collective nouns are almost always singular in construction".

The lead sentence was last changed to "are" on 1 May 2013 and reverted back to "is" on 27 May 2013.

Since this article is about an American band, written in American English, I have reverted the change back to "Cheap Trick is an American rock band". I am explaining this on the Talk page in case this issue ever comes up again. Curious Eric  23:10, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Daxx Nielsen membership status
I can't say I know the particulars of Cheap Trick's legal arrangement with Bun E. Carlos regarding membership. But given that Daxx Nielsen has played the drums on the band's last four albums, shared songwriting credits on three of those, and appears in band promotional materials, if he doesn't warrant "Current member" status, surely there's something that would be more applicable than "Current touring musician". TheGamp (talk) 22:11, 12 January 2022 (UTC)