Talk:Cheddar, Somerset/Archive 1

Untitled
Southwestern is a relative term. If you live in Plymouth, for example, Cheddar will be to your north-east... sjc

Hip Hop Slang
Cheddar is also a slang term used for money. How much cheddar you hold refers to how much money you have. This term was popularized by in the U.S. in the 1990's mainly by the influence of Hip Hop music.

Order of sections
When editing this article I found the order and structure of the sections a little confusing. Do other editors think it would benefit from being brought into line with the guideline at WP:UKCITIES?&mdash; Rod talk 21:19, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Page move
I just reverted a move to Cheddar, England which was not discussed. I object strongly to such a move. If the original contributor wants to move this article (which is the primary use of the name) then please discuss in the proper way. --Simple Bob (talk) 21:50, 22 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Just an error, not trying to overturn the system.--Parkwells (talk) 14:59, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

What else is needed to get this article to GA?
I've been editing this article to try to bring it closer to the guidelines at WP:UKCITIES and would be interested in what other editors think is need to get it to meet the Good article criteria? Obviously we need to revise the lead to summarise the article & there is one unclear date - about the restoration of the market cross "recently" - but is there anything else needed?&mdash; Rod talk 11:05, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I expanded the education section, corrected a couple of things in sports (and added the skatepark), and provided a reference for completion of the restoration work at the market cross. What I don't know is when it was damaged. I seem to remember it was around 2000 but can't find a reference to confirm, hence my rewording of the sentence. --Simple Bob (talk) 11:52, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I also noticed history finishes around 1800 & we have now have duplication about the strawberry line ion transport & economy sections which is probably my fault - but might need sorting. In economy do we need to reference camping sites etc & do we have any data on how many people work in tourism, or number of visitors etc?&mdash; Rod talk 12:18, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not big on local history, but agree that it needs fleshing out. Tourism section of local economy has now been rewritten together with a couple of good references. --Simple Bob (talk) 13:24, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * With any luck I should be able to find a reference for the market cross accident/restoration in the archives of the Cheddar Valley Gazette this week. I'm in Wells on Thursday and should have time spend in the library, if not I might be able to get to Cheddar library on Monday. Thryduulf (talk) 15:46, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I now know why it was fresh in my mind. The damage to the cross was featured in the "Yesteryear" feature in the 28 January issue of the Cheddar Valley Gazette. It is therefore safe to assume the accident happened in January 2000. I might even have the newspaper in the recycling pile. I'll go look.... --Simple Bob (talk) 17:15, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Found it in the recycling pile. It confirmed the smash was January 2000. Citation added. --Simple Bob (talk) 18:15, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Well done - I've just noticed we have Jacob's ladder in the picture caption, but it is not explained in the article.&mdash; Rod talk 19:28, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

(od) Article has missed out the former National Tower Testing Centre. photos Ning-ning (talk) 17:56, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for this I've added a short paragraph in the quarries section as it reused an old quarry.&mdash; Rod talk 19:05, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
 * There was a flash flood in the Charterhouse area, sometime in the early 1970s. Floodwater and debris from this event flowed down the gorge and damaged the entrance buildings to one of the caves. The flood caused considerable damage to Charterhouse Roman Town, carving out a depression about 10 to 15 foot deep and scattering Roman pottery, coins etc. Not sure if this is notable as regards Cheddar. Ning-ning (talk) 21:30, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It was 10 July 1968. My personal opinion is that it's worth a sentence or two as it was possibly the most significant event of it's type in 20th Century Cheddar. Thryduulf (talk) 04:20, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you talking about the Great Flood of 1968? There was certainly a deluge on the Mendips, which took away bridges on the River Chew & is mentioned on the Chew Valley articles, but I haven't come across anything about effects on the Cheddar side of the hills - I will take a look later.&mdash; Rod talk 08:11, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The visitor centre for Gough's Cave was damaged; a photo (afair) was published in the Weston Mercury. It's possible that the Charterhouse event and the Cheddar event are two separate "floods". Ning-ning (talk) 09:49, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * There is a photo on flikr but I don't think we can use it. This (p18) is a source we could use as a reference and this talks about the effect on the caves.&mdash; Rod talk 09:57, 23 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Here are some potentially referenceable sites (and interesting photos) of the 1968 flood. First hand account by restaurant staff member, and Mendip Caving Group publication documenting the flood w.r.t. it exposing Upper Flood Swallet. Pics of 1968 flood at MCRA. Weston Mercury article commemorating 40 years since the flood. --Simple Boba.k.a. The Spaminator (Talk) 10:14, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Great sources etc. I would suggest a sentence or two on the Cheddar article, a slightly longer version on Cheddar Gorge and bits about Upper Flood Swallet & and other caves as appropriate.&mdash; Rod talk 13:08, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I've added mentions to this & various other articles.&mdash; Rod talk 20:56, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Reference check
If we are going to get this article to GA we need to ensure the reference is spot on. I've just spotted Ref 40 "Twist, Colin, Rare Plants in Great Britain — a site guide". Although I can find a book about rare butterflies and dragonflies edited by Colin Twist i can't find this book - any further details?&mdash; Rod talk 19:20, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Also I don't understand Ref 2 Statistics from Bd. of Agric. (1905) from New Hampshire Board of Agriculture having area measurements for Cheddar - any ideas?
 * We also need page numbers for:
 * Ref 17 Coysh, A.W.; E.J. Mason & V. Waite (1977). The Mendips. London: Robert Hale Ltd. ISBN 0709164262.
 * Ref Refr 43 Atthill, Robin (1976). Mendip: A new study. Newton Abbott: David & Charles. ISBN 0715372971.
 * Ref 82 Moore, James; Roy Rice & Ernest Hucker (1995). Bilbie and the Chew Valley clock makers. The authors. ISBN 0952670208.
 * Does anyone have copies of these and could look up the pages?&mdash; Rod talk 20:53, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I have added the page numbers for all those books you have mentioned but I can't find any other information for the Statistics from Bd. of Agriculture. The Bd. of Agriculture is a company that used to record the acreage of civil parishes in South East England - however, I don't think that this supports Somerset's civil parishes. I will try to find another book that will have the acreage of Cheddar recorded in. Jaguar (talk) 21:16, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I have reverted the page numbers as at least one of the ones given was a higher number than the total number of pages in the book.&mdash; Rod talk 21:24, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * My mistake. It seems that I had recorded the number of pages in the whole books! I have done a better search of them now and have added the page numbers once more. Jaguar (talk) 21:33, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The page numbers need to support the specific fact included in the article. Are you saying you have copies of these three books at home? If you have found the full text online please give the URLs.&mdash; Rod talk 21:39, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I have added all the URLs and all the page numbers to the three books that were mentioned. I have found the text online and the URLs are given to those page numbers where they mention the fact of Cheddar. Jaguar (talk) 21:50, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you but the page number should be where the specific fact in the article is mentioned not just mentions of Cheddar eg in the Coysh book Wilberforce and More is on page 96 so I have changed the page number & URL for this one. I will have a look at the others.&mdash; Rod talk 21:56, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I have corrected the Athill page number and URL as the place where the % of calcium carbonate was cited was needed. I have corrected the isbn for the Bilbie and the Chew Valley clockmakers book as it was wrong and removed the page numbers and URL as they were pointing at a different publication (by the same authors) which didn't support the claim made in the article.&mdash; Rod talk 22:08, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The isbn numbers (0952670208, 9780952670209) given on the Google books page are wrong. The ISBN 0952670208 on World Cat gives two different books & according to Amazon it doesn't have an isbn just ASIN: B001P9JKG0. Help appreciated.&mdash; Rod talk 22:25, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Parish area
The figure for the parish area has now been changed to 7018 acres but this is based on a source from the 1890s. The Cheddar page on A vision of Britain through time gives different figures up to 1961 when the area was 8592 acres. This is because the parish boundaries change over time. What I'm looking for (and having trouble finding) is a current figure for the parish area.&mdash; Rod talk 15:34, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I've now found a 2004 figure of 4208 hectares but this is for the ward of Cheddar and Shipham rather than the parish.&mdash; Rod talk 15:41, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Lods more at Electoral Division Profile for CHEDDAR but again different to the parish.&mdash; Rod talk 15:45, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I have sticked to the statement saying that the parish had an area of 8592 acres from 1961 as this is the most recent statement. Jaguar (talk) 13:56, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

GA nomination
I'd like to take this on and help build to GA level, but I've just taken a look and I feel there is a bit of work to do regarding polishing the prose, and tidying up the organisation and presentation. I'm just starting some GA reviews, and when I've finished those I'll come back and see if this one is still open, and if it is I'll take it on.  SilkTork  *YES! 01:20, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! Long time no see! Jaguar (talk) 11:13, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

TCO comments
Looks pretty decent actually. Going through it now. Warning, am an American, who thought Cheddar was in Wisconsin.TCO (talk) 16:11, 22 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Suggest delinking all (or most) of the left hand fields in the infobox.


 * The Infobox UK place is fully edit-protected to all but administrators. I agree that it is ridiculously overlinked. Perhaps something to talk about at the template's talk page. As for your comment about Wisconsin I get that all the time from my US-based colleagues. There is a Cheddar in South Carolina though. --Simple Boba.k.a. The Spaminator (Talk) 16:18, 22 February 2011 (UTC)