Talk:Chen Changxing

"Tai ji"
Wasn't the art practiced in Chen village actually "cannon fist", not "tai ji"? Iangreen 18:55, 4 June 2007 (UTC)iangreen


 * No. You may want to read the extensive history in the main Chen style tai chi chuan article. VanTucky 21:26, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I suppose the logic may be that the Chen's were famous for their Cannon Fist and some masters in the family also studied and practiced other martial arts. Probably some aspects of Yang style Taijiquan came from the "traditional" Chen's practice and other aspects came from another source, no one can say for certain. We need a Time Machine to take us back and show us what really happened, I'm certain, however, that it's impossible to tell by looking at the range of styles and forms we have today and try to link them back to a single source and confidently say all Taijiquan came from one or two forms that the Chens "now" practice. Too much has changed [IMO] over the last 150 years to be able to do that with any large degree of confidence.


 * The article is deliberately ambiguous for this reason, and attempts to be written in a way that is the least controversial [NPOV].Realtaichi 23:01, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Please Consult the Following Work
You can find a book called "Taijiquan; Way to Rejuvenation" on amazon. It is called "the bible" of Tai Chi and it is a good source for the history of the art by any standards. According to that source, what "cannon fist" is actually a form called "pao chui" which, translated means "cannon fist." It is the "hard" form of the Chen style because see, the Chen style is divided into a "soft" meditative form, and a "hard" more combative and vigorous form called "pao chui." To be clear though, the style itself was never called "cannon fist." It is the "yang" form of the Chen style. The chen style's soft form is the "ying" part of the Tai Chi, or the internal, meditative aspect. The pao chui or cannong fist is the "yang" part, or the hard, vigorous and energetic one. Don't take my word for it though; track down the book yourself.

206.63.78.85 (talk) 02:34, 14 January 2008 (UTC)stardingo747

suggestion
I don't know how to contact the right people so, in case the article's author is reading this, or any other wiki contributor, I would suggest creating a Chinese philosophy section outright. The subject is too extensive to be put into footnotes, or just written off as "east asian culture." I feel it should have an entire project dedicated to it.

Another thing I want to get off my chest, is the controvery regarding Tai Chi Chuan. To me, the rumors surrounding Yang's Chen Tai Chi master teaching him a form of the art different from the Chen family style are not at all far fetched. Martial arts styles are like families; a son looks like his dad, because he has his dad's DNA. So it is with martial arts styles; Okinawan Karate looks like Fujian Crane style Kung Fu because, obviously, they are related. Martial arts share techniques the way relatives share genes. And obviously enough, the Yang style of Tai Chi is only genetically related to the Chen style in that all it really shares with it are the basic 13 postures common to all Tai Chi forms. So, absolutely, from logic alone, the forms alone can substantiate any such rumors.

I will also agree with the article author, in that only a time machine can show us what really happened. Chances are people are elaborating too much. Maybe its something simple. Who cares if the art was modified or not, and who cares what style you're practicing! Tai Chi is about health, and just accept and perfect whatever style you're given! Does anyone honestly think previous generations of martial artists or Tai Chi practitioners could pick and choose a martial art like it was some sort of luxury buffet? Come on! The whole controversy over who taught what, or what form does what just irks me. Any way you slice it, Tai Chi is Tai Chi, and to me, all styles are equally powerful.

People have this misconception that simply knowing a few routines, a few moves, will magically transform them into highly refined martial artists, or Kung Fu heroes. When they discover how relatively simple many of the techniques are they become dissapointed and either give up, or learn style, after style, after style, pretty soon compilating black belts in 35 different martial arts, in their hunt hoping they will find that one "magical art." This whole "magic martial art" crap has got to stop. Seriously here, it needs to stop. Some of us don't even have an instructor, and for most of us in the west we will never be trained in the martial version of this art. Also, China is not likely to share the best they have got with us, and it is wrong to assume, even, that the most skillful Tai Chi Chuan practitioner on this earth is a man, or for that matter, one of the Yangs or Chens. To prove this point, I need to tell a story;

"once there was a doctor who attended the emperor. When asked who had the most skill in medicine in his family, the man replied; 'my oldest brother sees the spirit of sickness and removes it before it takes form, so his name does not leave the house.  My older brother cures sickness while it is extremely minute, so his name does not leave the neighborhood.  As for myself, I puncture veins, massage the skin and prescribe potions, so my name is sometimes heard among the lords.'"

So, what am I implying here? That the truly skilled martial artists, China probably virtually keeps prisoner. Or provide them with all kinds of incentives NOT to come here. There is a Shaolin Monk in New York, who is a very skilled Kung Fu master. As skilled as he is though, in China, there is someone even more dangerous than he is. Far more dangerous in terms of skill. Regarding Tai Chi, their very best well known ones they will not share with us, and not all the very best are well known, nevertheless, they are the very best because they trained under the best that came before that China has not shared with anyone. In other words, no matter what style we practice here in the west, even if its a Chinese master who has done it for years, no, likely he or she is not the best China's got, yes, the martial arts applications probably are authentic, but by the standards in China itself, the instruction is amateur and second rate at best, and I do not mean it as an insult. I just feel feel that the masters of China really are that far above any they send here.

If at all possible, if a separate article could be written, either on wiki, or a magazine, or perhaps a blog, please do so. I really wish someone would talk sense.

206.63.78.85 (talk) 02:50, 14 January 2008 (UTC)stardingo747