Talk:Chen Duxiu

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 September 2020 and 22 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ldc30507. Peer reviewers: Mjwng, Yanjun-Liu3, Sf999129.

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Untitled
''Please, students, click here to add a message. Thank you. [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk)]] 19:40, Oct 21, 2004 (UTC)''

This article has some sentence fragments and other grammatical errors that need to be cleaned up.

Ava
dear all, i have added the part of 'writing style' again. hope that we can cooporate to improve our article.thank you!

Ava(0101CHENGsw)

dear all, is there anyone who delete the part of 'writing style'? i really find this part important so i write it.i suspect that it was deleted by some bad guys who are not our group members. i am so worry about our article.

Ava(0101CHENGsw)

dear all, i so feel that someone is doing bad things on our article.

Ava(0101CHENGsw) Dear all,


 * I found out that there are some people doing some bad things on our wiki. Our website is keep on doubling and even tripple itself..I have sent an email to tutor in case there are some strange changes made here which is not our course students.

dear all,
 * i find that adding 'chen's writing is very important so i add this part.i forget to login first . hope u won't mind i add this in the finally stage.

Ava (0101CHENGsw)

Dear Tom,
 * Pls, there is no rule saying that external links must be ENGLISH!!!!
 * Candy

Formatting
Guys, I think you're unfamiliar with formatting this page correctly. See How to edit a page for information. Also, you can sign your name with: ~. [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk)]] 00:51, Oct 15, 2004

Lead paragraph missing
Hey guys, I noticed that some of you have changed the opening of your Wikipedia entry from standard paragraph to bullet points. Bullet points can summarize things and are very efficient and it does have its place, but definitely not in the lead paragraph. (JMSC0101 TA - Li) Lfcho 16:29, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Chen Duxiu
Chen Duxiu (陈独秀,1879 - 1942, pinyin: Chén Dúxiù, Wade-Giles: Ch'en Tu-hsiu;,Original name:Qing Tong, Style:Zhong Fu, Ancestral home:Huaining, An Hui Provoince )

--a great Chinese educator

--an influnential literatus

--an influential person in the repunblican revolution of 1911

-- the main founder of famous "The New Youth"

--the main founder of the Communist Party of China

Chronological Life
1819.10 - 1901.10 Early life and education 1910.10 - 1915.9 Planning 1911 Revolution  1915.9 - 1920.4 Being one of the influential person in the May Forth Movement 1920.4 - 1924.1 Established the Communist Party of China 1924.1 - 1927.7 Working in revolution and reformation of China 1927.7 - 1932.10 Changed from supporting Liquidationism to Trotshyism 1932.10 - 1937.8 Life in jail 1937.8 - 1942.5 Remaining Year of his life



Dear all,


 * I would like to ask, Why someone call Tom keeps on deleting the external links? Pls...before deleting the whol section, tell us ur reasons and make comprimise!!!
 * Candy

Dear all,


 * can anyone tell me how to reduce the size of the pics?? can any one find his literary work???              Candy

Dear all,


 * Candy again, I have edited the bibilography and accidentally remove the pic below! Sorry for that, would our groupmates who post the bottom pic pls posted it again?


 * Also, it is hightime for us to add more internal link and external link!!!!


 * 3 days more...and also we should read others wiki..they have things that we can learn from..like their tidiness and clear paragraphs!


 * Candy

guys i really don't understand why some copies suddenly disappear at the moment....:(((but luckily i have saved the former one, i will add it step by step again,i am so sorry to bring trouble to you guys

Sunnie

''Guys, please add new messages to the bottom of the page. Use ==Subject== to create a new subject for the message. Also see my message below. [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk)]] 00:55, Oct 15, 2004 (UTC)''

Dear all,


 * REMINDER: all of u REMEMBER to add the Bibilography as REferences!!! you can read others wiki...they all include that as avoid plargirism!!!!! I am sure marks will be deducted if we dun add this!


 * THX!

Candy

Dear all,


 * I think that political movments is one of our element we have to talk abt, However, as the title is journalists are great authors, it should focus on the topic...and read the instruction of the wiki....it focus is mainly journalism....
 * Candy

dear all,


 * i am Sunnie, i wonder if you don't mind i cross out the sentence "Since he was depressed by the Chinese Governmnet" of the first paragraph, cos i think it wasn't a direct reason for him to set up "the new youth",and it seems that the sentence itself trying to direct readers into a misunderstading zone.and also, i think the brief introduction needs more description rather than explaination.at the same time i would like to remove the sentences about "the new youth " and sth. "literiture" to other content-related paragraph, so do u all agree with me?


 * regards,
 * Sunnie

Dear all,

I do think we should emphasize the political aspect, coz he is a politician more than a journalist or whoever. And do u guys think the education part should come up first? coz I think this is not as important as the other part and i think it would be better to put it in the lower part of the page.


 * Add oil:)
 * Ivy

Dear all,
 * DO u think we should write more about his political matters? Those revolution events and movements.

Carole Dear gpmates,
 * First of all, I said that there is a flame boxing 'the influences of publication', that is just like the discussion part of we are now seeing. That is different from the other part of the essay. So i hope someone can handle it.
 * Secondly, I agree to Candy that our essay has some problems. And I'm trying my best to correct the pinyin matter. But I think the more important part is the messy content. There are many things but all are puting togerther. All of us must try our best to rearrange the essay and maybe add more headings to make the paragraph clear.
 * Thirdly, I do think an author is related to the media. But it seems doesn't equal to a journalist! Can we think of the linkage between them?
 * Add oil of us!! We can do it.

Carole


 * Carole...I have tried my best to change it...but it doesn't work!:(


 * btw, one more suggestion...it is recommanded not to add subjective words there like he is a "good" writer, a "hardworking" person things like that...coz such emotion carrying wordings is not neutral in reporting....we need to seek for a neutral style of reporting....try to access to the website that professor Chan mentioned today...it may give insight to us~

Feel free to challenge me for any disagreements~


 * Regards
 * andy

Dear all gpmates,


 * Carole: I dun understand what u meant by the box flame thing? can u tell me more see if I can offer help...


 * By the way, our wiki gets a number of problems:

1) not coherent eng 2) interlink insufficient 3) messy content


 * It would be nice if we start the division of labor rite now. I suggest some of u, especially studying translation, see if there are any problems on the pinyin stuff? One should starts on the interlink...I think we get enough sources, but not coherent enough~

As I study eng...I find I can offer help on the english inconsistency...

At the beginning part, as tutor told us...we are not conform to the title " journalists are great authors...we should link this 2 things altogether..." do all of u agree? Pls flow ideas here...no matter u agree or disagree...the meaning of wiki is compromise...I am sure we can do this..add oil~

Candy

Dear groupmates,

Can anyone help me to edit the 'influences of publications' as the content was flamed by a box. And I don't know why would it be like that and I just can't handle it. Thanks!! Carole

Dear gpmates,

Hi, everyone, I am happy to work with you guys in the cyber world. I would like to know if anyone of you have some familiar understanding on Chen Duxiu. I have just come across his name in hist book in my secondary sch life. Here, to begin with, I would like to know if anyone of you have any suggestions to find his sources apart from books. As we get 3 weeks only for the wiki, it is better we get the information in a more accurate direction. Indeed, we can only seek for the relevant information by sorting out process, but I hope this discuss areana can really allow us to deliver ideas and opinions so that co-operation can lead to better work.

Anyway, wish us all success!

Dear gpmate,

I am Candy, happy to see some of us has posted the stuff on board.But I found a slight information in the lib today. He is actually the main editor in <<新青年 >>. So, should it be better if we narrow down the reserch on this particular area? Coz it is more relveant to our topic. Indeed...we have to put some background information as well as huang did.

Pls flow ideas here...

Candy

Yup, i agree with u, Candy! let's focus more on chan's journalistic work!

I am Candy!!! I am so sorry that my pc got problem and I realise I haven't log in before I post the stuff for the wiki. I have added the crisis on new youth and the aim of new youth as well. So, the unknown user is me, candy!..u can ask me the stuff abt this 2

Dear gpmate, This is the first time i log on, i hv encountered some problem be4 too. And I am currently doing some reading abt Chen Duxiu......I will edit my finding as soon as possible..

Ivy

Use of the talk page
Please click the "plus" sign next to the "edit this page" button if you wish to add something to the talk page. Right now you are cluttering the page.

Also, add four of these: ~ to the end of each of your posts to put your signature in.

I removed your link because it is not in English, thus does not belong on the English side of the page. I've done all the edits recently as a request by another user on the cleanup page.

If you read the history, you would see why I did everything I did. "Back to the top" links are not used in wikipedia articles, so there's no need to add them as they clutter things up. [[User talk:Tomf688|Tom]] 01:51, Oct 20, 2004 (UTC)


 * Again, use the plus sign to add comments to the discussion page.

It is great to see you all working on this article. It isn't looking bad, but please stick around for several months so you can see it to a truly respectable end. Tom Haws. Tom - Talk 21:58, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Removed from text
Chen used different methods, such as concentrating (集中傳播), combining (組合傳播) and serial (連續傳播) publication in writing the articles to promote ideas.


 * I'm sorry, I can't understand this, can some one say it differently? Its from the section currently titled "Writing style". Thanks, Sam [Spade] 22:37, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Dismissed from leadership of party
There needs to be more on this. See:, , , etc... Sam [Spade] 01:26, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

RfC
I came here from RfC. Does this article still have an active dispute? Maurreen 06:26, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Not that I know of, I never knew it had one... Sam [Spade] 11:55, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Not since a month ago. --[[User:tomf688|tomf688]] 11:56, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)


 * OK, I'll remove the listing. Thanks. Maurreen 17:02, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

"anti-new wave ideology"
I have removed the link to "New Wave" from the Crisis with Hu Shih section as New Wave is a disambiguation page, and it appears the "new wave" referred to in this article is not currently defined on an article or on that dab page. If this was a movement worthy of an article itself, you are invited to create/locate it and add it to the disambiguation page. OliverL 08:39, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Unconventional Beliefs
From the article:
 * Chen was an exceptional student, but this lack of formal education resulted in a lifelong tendency to advocate unconventional beliefs and criticize traditional ideas.

Wait- are we saying that having unconventional beliefs is the natural result of being uneducated?! - Eric (talk) 22:19, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * He did not lack a formal education in any sense. This sentence has since been edited to reflect what (I believe, based on my understanding of his biography) the original author must have meant.Ferox Seneca (talk) 03:11, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Better Translation
To be independent instead of servile To be progressive instead of conservative To be aggressive instead of retrogressive To be cosmopolitan instead of isolationist To be utilitarian instead of impractical To be scientific instead of visionary

This is not really a precise translation.

It is more precise to translate it as thus:

To be autonomous instead of slavish To be progressive instead of conservative To be proactive instead of hermitical To be global instead of isolationist To be pragmatic instead of facetious To be scientific instead of imaginative —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.11.97.152 (talk) 23:13, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

someone is messing around
The photo named "Chen Duxiu" and placed here actually portrayed Zhang Shizhao (check the Chinese Wiki). I did the correction, but not on the Wikimedia. Be careful--Shanghainese (talk) 18:07, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

A wrong name of the man in the photograph
The man in the left side of the photograph is Hu Xiansu,not Chen Duxiu. please visit the site. All my loving (talk) 10:39, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

General Secretary, then Chairman, then General Secretary again?
That's what the box at the bottom of the article says, but without a source. If it's correct then other entries are wrong, but it seems unlikely a single man should have changed his title and then changed it back again.

I'm not sure how to add a 'citation needed' to the box without disrupting it. --GwydionM (talk) 18:46, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I cannot find the section that you are referring to. My understanding of this biography is that it states that he supposedly served as both Chairman and General Secretary during approximately the same period, 1920-1927.  I have read several of his biographies from different sources, and they all state that he was General Secretary, but I have not found any reference that he ever served as Chairman. Since I have not found a complete list of Chairmen for the CCP, I cannot prove that he did not serve in that role, and am giving it the benefit of the doubt, for now.  The current entry in his introduction stating that he served as CPP Chairman is labelled with a "" tag.  Please feel free to copy-and-paste the code for this tag onto the article if there is anything that you doubt which is not itself sourced.  At present, I am in favour of leaving the reference in the article until I can find a list of the Chairmen of the CPP, or until someone who knows better than me shows up.  If that person is you, go nuts.


 * This article was originally written in a very non-academic, "hearsay"-type style, and is in the middle of being more comprehensively edited. I've done about as much as I am willing to do to research and organize the first half of  to the section, but the second half is still a mess. I'm getting around to organizing it better. If you have access to a complete list of the Chairmen of the CPP, and/or if you can add anything to this article, please feel free to add or subtract data according to what you have found.Ferox Seneca (talk) 03:11, 1 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I actually did a quick Google search on the issue. Websters Online Dictionary states: "in 1943 the position of Chairman of the Communist Party of China was created", and it lists the first Chairman as Mao Zedong.  (This is confirmed by Wikipedia's own article listing China's Chairmen). According to this, the statements in this article stating that Chen was the first Chairman must be wrong.  Because the statements in this biography stating that Chen was Chairman are unsourced, I'm altering the article to reflect this information.Ferox Seneca (talk) 04:13, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Shoot. Our own article on the Chairman of the Communist Party of China states that: "between 1922 and 1925, Chen Duxiu (still Party Secretary) served as Chairman of the Central Executive Committee (simplified Chinese: 中央执行委员会委员长; traditional Chinese: 中央執行委員會委員長), but the name was changed in General Secretary of the Central Executive Committee in 1925. The post was first introduced in March 1943, when the Politburo decided to discharge Zhang Wentian as General Secretary and named Mao Zedong as Chairman of the Politburo of the CPC Central Committee (simplified Chinese: 中国共产党中央政治局主席; traditional Chinese: 中國共產黨中央政治局主席)."  So... it's complicated.Ferox Seneca (talk) 04:42, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Succession as Chairman
Mao was not Chairman till much later. 1931 for the Chinese Soviets and the 1940s as Chairman of the Party. So there was certainly no succession and I changed this to 'none'.--GwydionM (talk) 09:58, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Possible relative's perspective
(These thoughts aren't mine: they were added to the article but later [correctly] removed as unsourced and POV. I am only adding it here because it may be interesting to future editors, and because it may be genuine.  This post has been given some minor edits for prose, grammar, and punctuation before re-posting.)

"Chen's wife and children migrated to America some time after his death. They lived in obscurity due to the CCP's negative portrayal of Chen Duxiu, and its efforts to undermine his accomplishments after the Comintern expelled him from the party for the 1927 collaboration collapse incident. His children went their separate ways upon arriving to the 'States. Chen's current known descendant is named Chan Da Wei (David Chan), born on Sept. 13, 1985 and currently residing in New York City with a degree in Computer Science.

It is firmly believed by the family that the CCP required a scapegoat at the time of the 1927 incident and with his declining popularity among the public and CCP members alike, and it was relatively easy to blame the Party's difficulties on Chen. Slandering Chen became a tactic of high-profile CCP members to further their own political agendas in front of the public. Chen was continuously slandered after the founding of PRC in 1949, when Chen was made an example "to warn Communist Party members not to deviate from party orthodoxy" and compared to Mao's enemy, Peng Zhen.

Although Mao Zedong may have done many great feats, causing millions of deaths is another thing: the ends do not justify the means. Chen and Mao both may have strongly believed initially in what they were doing. They both believed that they were doing it for the good of the people, but by no means would Chen have sacrificed others like Mao did, just to achieve something of it, and yet Chen Duxiu's name was only invoked time and again to be used as a steppingstone for improving Mao Zedong's image and political stance by his followers after so many people have died for it.

Chen's descendants cannot help but wonder about the irony here: why was Mao able to speak as if he had the "Mandate of Heaven", while Chen was persecuted so easily and was forced to leave his homeland in the end? The family, however, is grateful towards the "subsequent generations of Chinese who have since re-assessed Chen's contributions to Chinese Communism as being somewhat more positive," rather than how he was portrayed by the CCP. The recognition of Chen's achievements brings back what was stripped and stolen away by others, a sense of honor and justice where it is due.

To be honest, the CCP is just as corrupt as any other government in those days. They may have striven to do good in the beginning, but at some point they became corrupted from within. They were so caught up with their personal ideologies that they eventually got consumed by it and forgot all about the people that those ideals were made for in the first place. I do not know what the current CCP is like, but that is just my personal opinion. I am Chan Da Wei, grandchild of Chen Duxiu, and these are my thoughts.

- David Chan

Ferox Seneca (talk) 23:38, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20041012155059/http://www.bartleby.com:80/65/co/Cominter.html to http://www.bartleby.com/65/co/Cominter.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080405041848/http://www.chenduxiu.net:80/ to http://www.chenduxiu.net

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