Talk:Chen Zhonghua

My name is Jonathan Bluestein and I created this page. I am a friend of master Chen Zhonghua, but I am not his student or disciple, and I do not practice his martial arts. Master Chen is one of several dozen key figures in the world of Internal Martial Arts in modern times, and I felt that he's well known enough to deserve his own Wikipedia page. Jonathan.bluestein (talk) 11:54, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

"This reads like a Personal reflection or opinion essay"
Does anyone who knows anything whatsoever about the current state of Chen style and 'Practical Method' history and politics care to enlighten us on how this claim has any validity? I wrote this page in the most unbiased and professional way possible. There are no claims in favour or against anyone, in any way. It tells the history of a person and his martial arts the way they are. Jonathan.bluestein (talk) 18:07, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Reworded to a more neutral tone ottawakungfu (talk) 20:15, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Lack of notability claim
How is a man with schools in over 20 countries not notable? You guys serious? All the geniuses adding tags to this page have not read the citations and references. I am removing the notability tag. Under 'external links', there are already links to websites of 4 different schools under Chen in 4 different countries. If required, one could put up links and references for the rest of the school. I believe though, that 4 are enough. Had I put links to more schools people would have claimed this page is a commercial. Jonathan.bluestein (talk) 09:06, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I did read them, but running schools and holding seminars does not show notability. I don't see independent sourcing to show he meets WP:GNG or WP:MANOTE.  I'm just asking you to show me how he meets either of those standards--do that instead of insulting other editors.  Please note that I voted to keep Shang Yunxiang--all you need to do is show the subject meets WP notability criteria. Jakejr (talk) 02:05, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I think the demands of WP:GNG are absurd for 99.99% of martial arts teachers throughout history. Very few of them, alive or dead, have received 'coverage' as such. In terms of WP:MANOTE - again, you just wouldn't know. Chen Zhonghua arranges competitions on Daqingshan - but all the info is in Chinese. I was there. I saw it. I met with the guy. I saw hundreds of his students with my own eyes. When there are many thousands of people who are this person's students worldwide, it's ridiculous to ask for more proof. I don't see how this makes one 'less notable' when this is the case, as compared to some no-name kid with a 12 fight MMA record who never taught anyone and got covered by some greedy commercially-infested magazines. The current model for 'notability' certainly favours such people over well known and respectable teachers. The real martial arts community was never about who gets more coverage. The most influential people in martial arts across the centuries were usually not the most famous. Is this out of the know of Wikipedia editors? Are they all detached from that community?... It's no secret that most of the martial arts worldwide don't get proper coverage at all, in any media. What is readily available in text format is but a tiny glimpse of the wealth of knowledge that exists in that field of study. Even youtube does not offer substantially more, in comparison to the amount of material that's out there. So, what do you want to do? Are you asking me, Jonathan Bluestein, to help you guys delete or modify everything that's 'not notable' according to these silly criteria? I'd rather put as much info as possible out there, and wait for people to take the initiative to improve upon it. Martial artists are usually lazy and awful writers, and such things can take decades. In the meanwhile though, it's better to have something rather than nothing. I ain't gonna sit by the wayside and watch how ignorance is maintained by things like wikipedia's 'notability standards'. If knowledge is ought to get out there, it would. I'd help it spread. That's the purpose of this entire website. It's not meant to be a bureaucratic hell, but a garden of knowledge. How about you and all the other editors do some work yourselves in this regards? Cause I took my ass to China to do research, twice already, and I spend a lot of time on improving my knowledge and understanding of martial arts - partly for me, and partly for the benefit of all martial artists worldwide. I actually sit down and write useful stuff. Things that people can learn from. Frankly, I cannot give less of a $#%#@! about silly criteria that no one in the world can supply or provide. You wanna have more information on people like Chen Zhonghua? Then I suggest you get on a plane and check him out and write an article and a wikipedia page about it like I did, cause I ain't seeing how your bureaucratic demands are helping anyone. This isn't personal - this is just me being tired of people who mostly criticize but do nothing themselves to help mend the situation they're criticizing... You mean well, and end up causing trouble and pain to the people who actually try to spread quality information. Here's your citation: Jonathan Bluestein got all the info directly from the source! No bullshit magazine articles, no forum posts - all from the man himself. Got issues with that? Call me: 972-54-6888992   jonathan.bluestein@gmail.com  . I ain't hiding behind no nicknames or got no privacy issues, and Wikiepdia would've been a better place if people were just discussing things like rational human beings and not like lawyers quoting from law books.  Jonathan.bluestein (talk) 22:43, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Chen Zhonghua is indeed notable. Jonathan, you can use Chinese sources as well - any article that mentions him that isn't published by him. I too am often frustrated by WP and the quasi-rules that govern it - don't let the wikilawyer bullies get to you, BUT, the vast majority of people on WP are very dedicated to the idea of every edit being backed up by a reliable source. I use my personal knowledge of Chinese medicine to suggest changes to articles and it generally gets little respect here, just kinda the way it is.Herbxue (talk) 16:16, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Not really an issue. Consider it resolved after edit. ottawakungfu (talk) 20:17, 18 November 2013 (UTC)