Talk:Chevrolet Vega/Lead

Use this section to discuss/suggest improvements to the lead following the successful conclusion of the RFC.

Pre-RFC version of Lead
This is how the lead was prior to the RFC. Please don't edit the text below directly, instead create a new copy. That way we can see what it is that we are trying to improve on. The Chevrolet Vega is a subcompact, four-passenger automobile produced by the Chevrolet division of General Motors for the 1971 through 1977 model years. Introduced in September 1970 as the Vega 2300, the car's name derived from the star Vega and the engine size in cubic centimetres. The Vega's two-door body styles included a hatchback, notchback, wagon, and panel delivery. The Vega 140 CID engine is a 2287 cc aluminum-block inline-four. By 1974 the Vega was among the top 10 best-selling American cars. The Cosworth Twin-Cam, a limited production, performance model was introduced in March 1975, with a 1994 cc all-aluminum, hand-built inline-four. A poor public perception of the Vega had developed from early model engine and fender corrosion issues that damaged General Motors reputation for build quality. The 1975 Vega-derived Chevrolet Monza, and later, the lower-priced Chevrolet Chevette, offered alternatives. After a three year sales decline, despite efforts to improve the car's image, Chevrolet canceled the Vega and its aluminum engine at the end of the 1977 model year.

Suggested changes
So, what are your suggested changes? --Biker Biker (talk) 20:31, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Here is my first strawman: The Chevrolet Vega is a subcompact, two-door, four-passenger automobile produced by the Chevrolet division of General Motors between 1970 and 1977. The car's name derived from the star Vega. Body styles included a hatchback, notchback, station wagon, and panel delivery. The engine was a 2287 cc aluminum-block inline-four. The car was conceived in 1968 to compete with smaller models from domestic and Japanese competitors, and was brought to market in a short time. Design flaws and cost cutting led to serious problems which resulted in costly recalls and redesign work, and ultimately did serious damage to General Motors' reputation for several decades.

I have kept it deliberately short and have only used information already contained within the article. I have used no references, typical for Wikipedia articles, because the lead is merely a summary of what is already contained within the article and is therefore already referenced. My one omission, simply because I can't find the right words, is something about the awards and initial strong sales. So, who can improve on that? --Biker Biker (talk) 20:52, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * That's a great start. I'll have a stab at it.
 * The Chevrolet Vega is a subcompact, two-door, four-passenger automobile that was manufactured and marketed by the Chevrolet division of General Motors between 1971 and 1977. Named after the star Vega, the car had an innovative, lightweight aluminum-block inline four-cylinder engine.


 * The Vega was produced in hatchback, notchback, wagon, and 2-seater panel delivery body styles. A limited-production model, the Cosworth Vega, with a smaller but more powerful engine, was introduced in 1975, the same year that GM introduced two additional subcompacts: the less expensive Chevrolet Chevette, and the Vega-derived Chevrolet Monza. Two additional Vega variants were produced: the Pontiac Astre and the Pontiac Safari Wagon.


 * "Initially well-received by buyers and the motoring press, The Vega received numerous awards and sold well against subcompacts from American Motors, Ford, Toyota, Datsun and Volkswagen. The car had been brought to market in a short time, and it developed a reputation for engine problems, poor build quality, and corrosion, which in turn caused long-lasting damage to GM's reputation. Although the Vega's problems were remedied by recalls and redesigns, a three-year decline in sales culminated in its cancellation at the end of the 1977 model year."
 * Writegeist (talk) 22:53, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * That's good. In my version I wikilinked the body styles simply because readers outside the USA won't necessarily understand what a notchback, panel, or wagon is. Ditto model years - so either use 1970-1977 or 1971-1977 but in the latter case be sure to wikilink model year so people will understand. Also, what is four passenger? Is it five seats - driver plus four passengers, or is it four seats including the driver? We should be more precise. --Biker Biker (talk) 22:57, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I am thinking the "10 best selling cars" reference is significant enough to stay in the lead section, but I am not married to the idea. Also, I would substitute "less expensive" for "cheaper" vis-a-vis the Chevette reference.  That said, "cheaper" has connotations beyond price, which might be appropriate in this case.  Ebikeguy (talk) 23:04, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Good catch, Biker Biker; I forgot to link the body styles and didn't think to link the years. Ebikeguy, "less expensive" is good, as is the "10 best-selling cars" ref. Let's look at other WP car articles for precedents re. seating. Writegeist (talk) 23:22, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * How about "four-seater" or "four-seat"? Writegeist (talk) 23:30, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Howzabout "The Chevrolet Vega is a subcompact, two-door automobile with seating for five,..."Ebikeguy (talk) 23:44, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * It might only be for four. I think I read somewhere that it had four bucket seats. Or maybe it was buckets for seats. Damn, where's King Vega when we need him? Writegeist (talk) 00:13, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * If it isn't clear in the body of the article, then it doesn't belong in the lead. Drop the mention of seating. --Biker Biker (talk) 00:37, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I've made a few minor tweaks, if that's ok. The only substantive other territory to cover would be a somewhat more precise coverage of the the Vega's larger legacy as an important player in the 1970's effort, along with the Ford Pinto and the AMC Gremlin, for American manufacturers to compete with foreign manufacturers in the small car market.  The Vega's negative reputation ultimately became symbolic of the US car industry's inability to compete effectively.  The article may not yet support this statement, but there is abundant coverage to this effect. 842U (talk) 01:08, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

(ec) So here's where I'm at (cites to be added)...

The Chevrolet Vega is a subcompact, two-door automobile that was produced by the Chevrolet division of General Motors for the 1971-1977 model years. Named after the star Vega, the car was powered by a lightweight aluminum-block inline four-cylinder engine.

The Vega was produced in hatchback, notchback, wagon, and panel delivery body styles. A limited-production model, the Cosworth Vega, with a smaller but more powerful engine, was introduced in 1975, the same year that GM introduced two additional subcompacts: the cheaper Chevrolet Chevette, and the Vega-derived Chevrolet Monza. Two additional Vega variants were produced: the Pontiac Astre and the Pontiac Safari Wagon.

Initially well-received by buyers and the motoring press, from whom it received numerous awards, the Vega sold well against subcompacts from American Motors, Ford, Toyota, Datsun and Volkswagen. By 1974 it was among the top 10 best-selling American cars.

Brought to market in a short time, early examples suffered from engine problems, poor build quality, and corrosion, which harmed GM's reputation. Although the faults were remedied by recalls and redesigns, a three-year decline in sales culminated in the car's cancellation at the end of the 1977 model year.

...? Writegeist (talk) 01:37, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

So what is the best way to participate -- is this a group effort?842U (talk) 10:30, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, absolutely, just dive in with minor tweaks. If you are making minor tweaks then explain them. If there area few, then perhaps you should copy/paste what is above into a new version together with your changes, then accompany it with an explanation/rationale. That way, at the end of the article we always have the latest suggested version (assuming others are OK working like this) --Biker Biker (talk) 12:50, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Writegeist - I'm happy with your version with a couple of tweaks. See below - being explicit about the Gremlin and Pinto, distinguishing domestic/international competition, plus a tweak to the Pontiac sentence. --Biker Biker (talk) 13:04, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

The Chevrolet Vega is a subcompact, two-door automobile that was produced by the Chevrolet division of General Motors for the 1971-1977 model years. Named after the star Vega, the car was powered by a lightweight aluminum-block inline four-cylinder engine.

The Vega was produced in hatchback, notchback, wagon, and panel delivery body styles. A limited-production model, the Cosworth Vega, with a smaller but more powerful engine, was introduced in 1975, the same year that GM introduced two additional subcompacts: the cheaper Chevrolet Chevette, and the Vega-derived Chevrolet Monza. Two additional Vega variants were produced by Pontiac: the Astre and the Safari Wagon.

Initially well-received by buyers and the motoring press, from whom it received numerous awards, the Vega sold well against domestic subcompacts such as the AMC Gremlin, Ford Pinto, and imports from Toyota, Datsun and Volkswagen. By 1974 it was among the top 10 best-selling American cars.

Brought to market in a short time, early examples suffered from engine problems, poor build quality, and corrosion, which caused long term harm to GM's reputation. Although the faults were remedied by recalls and redesigns, a three-year decline in sales culminated in the car's cancellation at the end of the 1977 model year.
 * Looks good, although I still think "less expensive" would be more encyclopedic than "cheaper." I say "BE BOLD!" and make the change on the article now that it has been unprotected.  Let's see where this goes.  Want me to make the edit?  Cheers, Ebikeguy (talk) 15:39, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Excellent tweaks. I agree with "less expensive" but forgot to make the change, so pls fix that. Now boldy go...! I hope no ambush awaits. I'll be right behind you. (Running away.) Writegeist (talk) 16:10, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Hee hee... I'll wait until Biker gives feedback, so I can blame him when things go horribly awry.  Cheers, Ebikeguy (talk) 16:21, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Wizard wheeze. (Biker will understand.) Also we should take on board 842U's observation about the Vega's place in the US auto industry's war on imports . Once it has been WP:RS'd in the body of the article it could be included in the lead. Writegeist (talk) 16:54, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Perfectly happy with suggested change w.r.t cheap vs less expensive. So who's going to put their head above the parapet and put it into the article? --Biker Biker (talk) 21:05, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. Head raised proudly above parapet, awaiting hail of gunfire and/or shrapnel.  Ebikeguy (talk) 21:58, 20 May 2011 (UTC)