Talk:Cheyenne Mountain

Cheyenne Mountain article discussion
Please see the Talk:Colorado Springs, Colorado posting about the different Cheyenne Mountain articles.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 22:38, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Cheyenne Canyon
Hi,

I've been working on articles about Colorado Springs and the area and I've seen the global Cheyenne Canon, Cheyenne Canyon terms used, but no article. There are articles for:


 * North Cheyenne Cañon Park, a regional COS park
 * South Cheyenne Canon, the canyon

My questions are:
 * Should there be a single approach for use of Cañon, Canon or Canyon?
 * Should there be some something to tie these together (e.g., Cheyenne Canon article, bring this together in a Cheyenne Mountain article)?
 * Any changes to the approach where one article is about the park - and the other about the canyon?

It seemed like this would have the larger audience, but I'll post something on the article talk pages to refer to this discussion. (By the way, I also just created Cheyenne Creek.)

Any insight would be great! I'm happy to do the work, I just need help with approach.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 22:25, 30 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Here's a thought, since the South Cheyenne Canon article is short:
 * Move South Cheyenne Canon to Cheyenne Cañon
 * Keep the resulting redirect, for those looking for South Cheyenne Canon
 * Have an overview of Cheyenne Canon and sections for South and North Cheyenne Cañons
 * In the North Cheyenne Cañon section, mention and link to North Cheyenne Cañon Park


 * How does that sound? (See a start of a summary at Cheyenne Mountain). Thanks!-- CaroleHenson (talk) 21:24, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Well, I'm pretty much talking to myself on this one, but just to explain my logic if anyone is reading: It seemed to make sense to just keep the Cheyenne Cañon summary on the Cheyenne Mountain page - rather than creating a Cheyenne Cañon page by changing the South Cheyenne Cañon article. I renamed the South Cheyenne Canon article to Cañon, to be consistent with the North Cheyenne Cañon Park article.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 10:19, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Cheyenne Mountain (related to Cheyenne Canon)
In addition, there are the following articles about Cheyenne Mountain:


 * Cheyenne Mountain massif
 * Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker, with a redirect from Cheyenne Mountain
 * Cheyenne Mountain Highway
 * Cheyenne Mountain State Park

Questions:
 * I've never seen an article with the name "massif" in it, but shouldn't the Cheyenne Mountain redirect to the massif article rather than the nuclear bunker?
 * Is Cheyenne Mountain massif a good/correct title?
 * Cheyenne Mountain Highway is really more of a road up to the Shrine and Zoo... should it be included in the Cheyenne Mountain (massif / no massif) article?
 * Isn't the Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker related to North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) article?

Thanks so much! Again, I'll post a message on the article talk pages to look at this discussion. I'm happy to do the work, I just need help with approach.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 22:34, 30 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Here's a stab:
 * I've removed the redirect from "Cheyenne Mountain" to "Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker",
 * changing it to "Cheyenne Mountain massif" for now (updated per another discussion about blanking a redirect)-- CaroleHenson (talk) 18:05, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It seems clear that "Cheyenne Mountain massif" should be moved to "Cheyenne Mountain". So, I'll ask for an administrative move to the previous redirect
 * I don't know if the nuclear bunker should be merged with NORAD or not
 * Any thoughts about this? Thanks!-- CaroleHenson (talk) 04:52, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

- - -

Back in Wikipedia's early days (on 20 May 2003), an editor started this first version of the article titled Cheyenne Mountain. It was a good first start. There should probably be a delineation of where the nature parks are in relation to NORAD, and where one can go hiking without being arrested for trespassing.

Things seem to have gone off the rails sometime after that, especially after this move:
 * 23:06, 7 September 2012 30 30 SW moved page Cheyenne Mountain to Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker (Name in bold at beginning of article)

I don't know what the basis was for deciding that the nuclear bunker was the WP:primary topic over all of the other topics on the set index (disambiguation) page. Clearly it is not, and I don't think there is a clear primary topic. The message at Template:Dabprimary is apt. We should have a WP:broad concept article at the base Cheyenne Mountain title, which gives a broad overview of everything on, under, above and nearby the "mountain". – Wbm1058 (talk) 18:22, 31 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi, yes. I have spent 2-3 weeks so far cleaning up Colorado articles with erroneous information, cited sources that don't provide the article content, cited sources that don't even mention the subject, use of names of places and streets from 1898 and other early directories that are now called something else, and sometimes blatant lies - from one user.


 * The Cheyenne Mountain article wasn't a bad start for an article about the military component, but is not about Cheyenne Mountain as a whole. I've started working on clean up of what was in Cheyenne Mountain massif - now in Cheyenne Mountain - and will work on expanding upon the article.


 * The ridiculousness has been amazing - like having a redirect from Cheyenne Mountain to the Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker article (i.e., just one of many).-- CaroleHenson (talk) 18:56, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The worst part is that this content gets copied and perpetuated across the internet. Regarding scope of the Cheyenne Mountain article: If you've seen any of the other articles I've cleaned up The Broadmoor is one of the recent ones, I'm very thorough and will cover the recreational + residential + military aspects of Cheyenne Mountain.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 19:03, 31 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Right, OK. I vaguely recall running into this topic before and noticing some obsessive level of detail some places. Just keep in mind that the POV of a resident of the area, who knows there are parks and zoos, is different from someone who lives outside the state, and thus equates the mountain with just the military operations there. The military and civilian uses need to be put in context, I'm hoping you can do that. Regards, Wbm1058 (talk) 19:10, 31 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Yep, will do. That's what I meant by covering recreational + residential + military aspects.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 19:13, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Merger of Cheyenne Mountain / Cheyenne Mountain (disambiguation)
Since there is only one Cheyenne Mountain, that makes sense to me. I am still in the process of expanding the Cheyenne Mountain article, and the items directly related to Cheyenne Mountain are included in the article. I have asked for comments here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 04:01, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose: text-merging a disambig page to a text article?? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 07:28, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * But it's not really a disambiguation, because everything there is related to the same mountain. Disambiguation would be appropriate if there were other mountains with the same name in other US states or parts of the world. That's why I changed the template to Set index. Merging could be as simple as including them in the "See also" section of Cheyenne Mountain if a way can't be found to integrate them into the text, or they are considered as barely notable and not worth mentioning in the article body. I think the editors at WikiProject Disambiguation gave Carole some good advice. I don't know whether we need to go so far as creating a List of places named Cheyenne, for everything named after the Cheyenne people; I'm not sure that would be totally inappropriate but I wouldn't put any priority on it. Wbm1058 (talk) 14:21, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment You seem to be proposing a merger with a page that was deleted two weeks after you made this proposal. There are articles on Cheyenne Mountain Complex and Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station which are arguably more notable than the mountain itself.  See comments at Talk:Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station --Lineagegeek (talk) 12:20, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

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