Talk:Cheyenne Mountain Complex/Archive 1

Copied
Most all of the content, came from the first external link, the official military site, it is straight copying... CuBiXcRaYfIsH 07:36, 29 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Since the source is public domain, what's the issue? Looks like it has long since been cleaned up to remove POV. --Pmsyyz 11:14, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Location
Is the exact location of the entrance the base really necessary? Unless there is any opposition, i am going to delete the latitude and longitude given.--Geppy 05:22, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep, of course. It provides also map links.--Patrick 12:25, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I reduced the excessive accuracy.--Patrick 12:32, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Everybody with ICBM capability already knows. --John Nagle 16:05, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Silly fact - in Alastair Cooke's America series, filmed in 1972, he could only give the location as being "Omaha, NE", not it's real location in Colorodo Springs. 76.120.233.162 (talk) 03:27, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Stargateproject
Please manually move the above banner to the top of the page.

This banner has been added to aid project coordination. It was added using AWB, the automation of which could not place the banner at the top; please help by doing this manually. --Albotim 02:55, 5 June 2006 (UTC)


 * This article describes a real-world US defense facility and is not part of "Wikipedia Project Stargate". The above banner has thus been removed.  --John Nagle 03:16, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Zoo...
Maybe this article is not properly titled. Is it about the mountain or about the military base? If only about the military base, maybe it should be renamed to Cheyenne Mountain Operations Center. I tried to add a "See also" to Cheyenne Mountain Zoo, which would certainly be appropriate on an article about the mountain, but maybe not on an article about a military base. This mountain is used for other purposes as well, and a "See also" link is a fairly harmless way of letting others know that. --MattWright (talk) 23:29, 6 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Matt, I removed the link. You make a valid argument as far as the title of the article and it seems there is category:Mountains of Colorado of which this is part. I will revert my own edit and apologize for being hasty with the change. --Paul E. Ester 00:52, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * No problem Paul, thanks for adding it back! --MattWright (talk) 01:01, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Radius
"built to withstand a multimegaton blast within 1.5 nautical miles (3 km)." this sentence should be retooled, does it mean that the blast can within 3km of the bunker? or does it mean 3km from outside the bunker. Its probably the latter, since 3km WITHIN range of the bunker is redundant (the further away the easier to withstand)

Image is not fair use here
That image is not fair use for this page, as you can read by clicking on it, because it's a picture from Stargate SG-1. Thus "fair use" could only be argued for discussing the show, not for illustrating something that happened to appear in the show. Are there any thoughts? Possible replacements? -- SCZenz 16:46, 24 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Why is there an image from Stargate at the top of the page anyway? It is implied to represent the real site which it obviously does not.


 * Actually, it does represent the real site. The Stargate people made a bunch of footage of the real entrance to Cheyenne Mountain for use in the show. It should still be removed since it isn't valid fair use here, though. Bryan 02:28, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

600m = underground?
Does it even count "underground" if it's still above sea level? --84.249.253.201 19:37, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I would believe so. American Patriot 1776 23:55, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * As long as it's under the ground, yes. -- SCZenz 06:22, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

rqimage
Can someone add the South Portal? 70.55.200.47 22:31, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

mountain
There seems to be a distinct lack of information about the mountain, for an article that supposedly covers the mountain... if it's about the base, shouldn't it be called Chyenne Mountain base or somesuch instead? 70.55.200.47 22:31, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Any old pics of the control room?
The main control room or "command center" used to be much smaller, for most of the history of the place. I'm curious are there any pictures of the old room. --Howdybob 02:30, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Nuclear strength
The center was designed to withstand up to a 30 megaton blast within 1 nautical mile. Wow. Is that really survivable? Any references about this? -Rolypolyman 02:21, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You beat me to the punch. I was coming here to talk about this. What you quoted is not a true statement. The nautical mile measure used is 1.9 km. This is just a smudge over a mile. Anything hit within a mile is considered a direct hit. NOTHING designed by man (even carving into a mountain) can survive a direct hit by a multi-megaton level nuke. Considering that they quoted it at 30 megatons which is a very HIGH yield weapon, it is even more absurd. Standard yields on nukes are 10 megatons and 20 megatons with 10 being the vastly more prevalent. Cheyenne Mountain would not survive a 10 Megaton hit within 1.9 km let alone a 30 megaton one. I don't think the person who wrote this has any sense of the level of destruction of a megaton level nuke (check out this: http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/gmap/hydesim.html). Most bomber nukes aren't even 1 megaton and these are used to wipe out entire cities. I'm too lazy to do the work and find the link but I remember reading the original specification. The specification only uses percentages of survivability with 80% being the highest level they are willing to predict given a 1 megaton bomb within 3 miles. No estimate gave a final guarantee of survivability and both the range and yield were far below 30 Megatons. NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING known by man can withstand a direct hit of 30 Megatons. If you dropped a 30 megaton on a mountain, the mountain would not be there.99.187.236.105 (talk) 20:50, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Late answer, but- yeah. More or less. Inside the mountain you might survive a close hit like that. It really was designed to do the job, at a time when the threat was real. Of course, there's only one way to test it... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.69.139.16 (talk) 21:02, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

In popular culture

 * In the television series Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Atlantis, Cheyenne Mountain is home to the fictional Stargate Command and houses a Stargate under the control of the U.S. government. It is the primary base of operations for the characters of the series, and its physical entrance is shown numerous times. According to the special "Stargate SG-1: True Science", there is a door in Cheyenne Mountain with six locks and "Stargate Command" written above it, which leads to a broom closet. Coincidentally, Stargate SG-1's cancellation was announced less than a month after the base's closing.


 * In the Terminator series of movies and games, Cheyenne Mountain is where the mainframe of the rogue AI SkyNet is located. The location was chosen as the most defensible location in the nation, where it could defend itself from any ground or aerospace threat.


 * In the television series Jeremiah, Cheyenne Mountain has become Thunder Mountain, the primary post-apocalyptic community of the show.


 * In the 1983 film WarGames, a teenager in Seattle, Washington hacks into a defense computer at NORAD and eventually comes to Cheyenne Mountain.


 * Australian band Gyroscope reference the mountain in the title of their song 'Hollow Like Cheyenne' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.72.170 (talk) 05:59, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Moving Trivia to Talk underway LanceBarber (talk) 18:52, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Main article links to this section. LanceBarber (talk) 05:49, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Link removed, not allow under Self-references to avoid LanceBarber (talk) 06:27, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

What's the objection to having a section on references to Cheyenne Mountain in popular culture? —wwoods (talk) 08:28, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Will add back, but simple notable reference. Section was becoming too much trivia with no references, and also ref'd in NORAD article. Feel free to find appropriate reference. Thank you. LanceBarber (talk) 15:35, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

In the television series South Park, Cheyenne Mountain was absorbed by the trapperkeeper and takes over the world.
 * Moved from main article, unref, not notable. LanceBarber (talk) 03:06, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

The actual Cheyenne Mountain facility does have an actual Stargate Command; it is in fact a broom closet.
 * Moved from main article, no link and unref'd.LanceBarber (talk) 08:35, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Cheyenne Mountain is featured in the season 4 South Park episode "Trapper Keeper"
 * MOved from main article, non-notable.LanceBarber (talk) 06:00, 2 March 2008 (UTC)


 * As a joke, in the real Cheyenne Mountain Complex there is a door in the complex with a sign reading "Stargate Command". The door is in fact a closet.
 * Moved uncited trivia from article, not notable or historic.LanceBarber (talk) 15:49, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * In the video game Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel, Cheyenne Mountain is the site of Vault 0, the USA's largest and most advanced nuclear fallout shelter.
 * Moved uncited from article, not notable or historic. LanceBarber (talk) 07:27, 20 May 2008 (UTC)


 * In the science fiction book Footfall, by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, Cheyenne mountain plays a critical role as the main surviving center of government in the United States during an alien invasion.


 * In the fictional Terminator series, SkyNet, the computer which assaulted humankind through multiple nuclear strikes, leads every machine on the planet and sends Terminator through time, is housed in Cheyenne Mountain.
 * Moved lessor pop culture here, not notable or historic. LanceBarber (talk) 07:26, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The film series is one of the best known SF series in all cinematic history, and terms like 'Skynet' have passed into the public pantheon.  It's certainly far more notable than the television series 'Jeremiah' already in the article (and something I've never heard of).  It also appears to have been attempted to been inserted by at least two other editors in the past.FellGleaming (talk) 00:21, 30 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The final levels of the 2001 computer game Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel is set in "Vault 0", presumably, the NORAD base.
 * Moved lessor pop culture here, not notable or historic.LanceBarber (talk) 20:22, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The 1970 motion picture Colossus: The Forbin Project, a Hugo Award winning science fiction story uses NORAD's Cheyenne Mountain region and Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station as its setting. Though fictional, experts affirmed that the government did indeed have a computer similar to COLOSSUS in the Rocky Mountain region near Colorado Springs. Since NORAD did not allow images of its facility to be used in the film, outside views of the COLOSSUS Control Center are from the Lawrence Hall of Science at the University of California, Berkeley. Images of the underground mountain facility were used which suggested parts of COLOSSUS were connected to and located inside NORAD's facility at Cheyenne Mountain.
 * Moved from main page, not notable or historic. LanceBarber (talk) 06:20, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * In the Terminator films, Cheyenne Mountain is the location of Skynet's mainframe.
 * NORAD Tracks Santa
 * There is an actual door in the facility marked Stargate Command.
 * From Main article not notable or already noted as part of NORAD article. LanceBarber (talk) 04:10, 9 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The disaster film Deep Impact used the NORAD entrance of Cheyenne Mountain as the site of the underround shelter established by the U.S. Government to protect select people from an incoming comet.
 * From main article, not notable. LanceBarber (talk) 05:35, 26 October 2009 (UTC)


 * In the video game Modern Warfare 2, Cheyenne Mountain is used as a comunications center during an invasion.
 * from main article, not notable, and not mentioned in Warfare article. LanceBarber (talk) 05:49, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * In the film Terminator Salvation, the artificial-intelligence network SKYNET has its central core located at Cheyenne Mountain.
 * not notable, not mentioned article, and no ref.LanceBarber (talk) 06:36, 29 March 2010 (UTC)


 * In the video game Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, the NORAD facility is featured at the start of the level, "Second Sun."
 * not notable, not mentioned link article, and no ref given.LanceBarber (talk) 04:34, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Is it still operational or on standby?
According to the introduction of the article, it's "considered" to transfer daily operations out to another base -

but in the History section it's stated that this move has already been made?

Can someone in knowledge please clearify? - VicVal (talk) 12:20, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Dates of system failures swapped?
In the "Incidents" section, this article states that on 11/9/1979 a failed communication device caused an alert, while on 6/2/1980 an improperly used test tape caused an alert. However, in the Norad page, although the same two incidents are cited the dates are swapped. Which is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dtgriscom (talk • contribs) 03:03, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Content of Article
I would suggest that this article be folded into the entry for NORAD. With the exception of a brief mention of the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo, as well as the Will Rogers Shrine of the Sun, everything else in the article deals with the base inside the mountain. No mention of:

-North and South Cheyenne Canon Parks, the latter including Seven Falls -Cheyenne Mountain State Park -The Broadmoor Hotel (including the now-closed Ski Area, a highly visible feature on the mountainside) -The origin of Old Stage Road (a great drive, by the way) as a railroad from Colorado Springs to Cripple Creek and Victor in the heydays of mining -Any geological data on the mountain whatsoever (composition, structure, formation, prominent features) -The use of the summit as an antenna farm (another highly visible feature, particularly at night) -Cheyenne Mountain School District 12 (which serves the part of Colorado Springs near the moutain)

The information about the military facility is detailed and well put together, but it is such a narrow look at one aspect of the mountain that it really should be part of the NORAD entry. I do not have much experience with editing articles, but as a Colorado Springs native, I would be happy to provide info and research necessary topics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ragnarok tyr (talk • contribs) 18:07, 28 January 2009 (UTC)


 * That would be wrong. The base itself is notable, and is only a part of NORAD, other NORAD bases have their own articles, so why shouldn't this one? What you want is an article on the mountain, there's no reason not to have another article on the mountain. 70.29.212.226 (talk)

Split
This article should be split in two.


 * Cheyenne Mountain complex for most of this article on the military complex
 * Cheyenne mountain or Mount Cheyenne for the mountain itself, and related things located on and around it (and a brief mention of the military complex)

70.29.212.226 (talk) 10:19, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * A dab page may be needed, since there's already a hatnote on this page. 70.29.212.226 (talk) 10:20, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I concur on the split. LanceBarber (talk) 04:36, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

New Information - Still Active
According to this recent article, the statement that the Cheyenne Mountain complex is on standby is false: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-10274268-52.html?tag=rtcol;txt Would be great if someone could fix this detail, as well as improve the rest of the article based on that link 69.81.124.57 (talk) 13:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Deletions by Lance Barber
The pattern of reverts does not follow Wiki policy for Dealing with unsourced material and is also displaying WP:OWN tendencies. Give editors a chance to cite unsourced material that is not harmful before deleting it. This is not a BLP article.

Also, I'm curious your rationale for classifying the Terminator series -- arguably the best known SF franchise of the last half century -- as "minor pop culture". Can you elaborate on your reasoning for this? FellGleaming (talk) 06:47, 4 April 2010 (UTC)


 * His deletions are inline with WP:MILPOP guidelines. Cryptic comemnts about broom closests aren't needed either. - BilCat (talk) 06:59, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Wiki is not a place for trivia. Yes, SF articles and games are popular, but when the linked articles do not mention Cheyenne Mountain and or NORAD in them, nor do the references mention Cheyenne Mtn or NORAD then it is not signifigant, notable, or historic. The above "In popular culture" above has some discussion of pop culture....and those items are then included in the main article. Similarly, I am a fan of John Fogerty and Creedence, there are dozens of tv programs and dozens of movies, and commercials that have clips of his (their songs), but only a very very few are notable.... I don't go and list all the shows and movies that his (or their) work is used in (or conversely).... this goes for a hundred other performers and artists with their work in hundreds of movies, tv shows, and commercial. One doesn't list all of these occurances, in the ariticle of the movie or tv show, or conversely the show or movie under the artist, only if the work is an integral part of the show.  No difference here. That is what this Talk page is for, to discuss information or data and references that may or may not be included in the article that may or may not be appropriate or "encylopedic". Not all editors agree on content and references, but most work very hard in keeping articles encyclopedic. THis is not unique to aviation articles but to hundreds of other topics.... take automobile articles, and the used of those cars and trucks in "popular culture".... those articles go endlessly in discussions of notability. I think you got my drift. Thank you for starting a discussion. LanceBarber (talk) 07:51, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Trivia implies a fact is trivial. Looking at this article's history, at least half a dozen editors have considered this appearance non-trivial, and only you and BilCat seem to disagree.  This is not adhering to WP:CON. What seems even more inconsistent, though, is your judgement that a minor appearance in some defunct TV series ("Jeremiah") that few people have even heard of is notable.  FellGleaming (talk) 14:57, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Backup power
"Electricity comes primarily from the city of Colorado Springs, with six 1,750 kilowatt diesel generators for backup." Seems we have a misplaced decimal point- I don't think they had 10 gigawatts of power from diesel generators. 24.2.250.79 (talk) 03:40, 1 January 2011 (UTC)