Talk:Cheyenne Mountain Space Force Station

Move?

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Moved to Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station Mike Cline (talk) 18:42, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Base → Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station – current name User:30 SW 12:09, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * No objection herePetebutt (talk) 00:14, 5 September 2012 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Difference between this and Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker
I'm not quite sure that I understand the distinction - or need for the Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker article. Isn't it an aspect of the Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station?

If so, can the articles be consolidated?

I didn't jump right to a merge tag, because it's also likely that I'm missing a distinction.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 04:58, 19 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I would assume this to be a similar situation to Fort Bliss and Biggs Army Airfield, which are a literal stone's throw away from each other but are treated as separate entities for the purpose of Wikipedia since both have independent articles here. TomStar81 (Talk) 05:26, 19 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Could be,, I'm not sure. I'm going through and cleaning up dozens of articles written by or modified by a single user and sometimes the titles have not been the commonly used term for the subject.


 * In this case, I think that everything behind the blast-proof doors is essentially the nuclear bunker, which, again, I think means that there's very little of the Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station that's not in the nuclear bunker (parking lot, heliport, security gate). But I'm not at all clear about that. It could also be an attempt to make a distinction of the modified use of the Air Force Station once much of the functionality moved to Peterson Air Force Base.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 06:03, 19 February 2015 (UTC)


 * If I've got this right:
 * NORAD has 2 facts sheets, which seem to say the same thing:
 * Cheyenne Mountain Complex is at Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station, under Air Force Space Command. CMAFS hosts the activities of several tenant units.
 * The NORAD Combat Operations Center was operational in 1967. It was then the Cheyenne Mountain Operations Center. As of 2008, it is the NORAD and USNORTHCOM Alternate Command Center - using 30% of the floor space, with 5% of the daily population (reduced since much of the responsibilities were moved to Peterson AFB)


 * In 2000, Cheyenne Mountain Air Station became Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station (all Air Force Space Command Air Stations in the United States have been redesignated as Air Force Stations). It seems that Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station is the correct name for the current facility.


 * NORAD often refers to it as the Cheyenne Mountain Complex Operations Center, such as this document. As mentioned above, one of the two fact sheets is Cheyenne Mountain Complex.


 * It also seems that the Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker article should be renamed, perhaps Cheyenne Mountain Complex, with the history of the name/command changes from NORAD Combat Operation Center to Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station (link to the article, just enough info for context). Does that make sense?-- CaroleHenson (talk) 04:13, 20 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Update: Before being the Cheyenne Mountain Air Station, it was the Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Base and was active when NORAD became fully operational on the mountain in 1967.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 17:17, 20 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I think you're on the right track. Google Maps calls it "Air Force Station" and the sign on top of the tunnel entrance calls it "Complex". We should have just one main article for everything at the end of Norad Rd., i.e. one main article about Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station, 101 Norad Rd, Colorado Springs, CO 80906. If there is more content than will fit in a single article, then perhaps sub-articles, per WP:summary style, e.g. "History of", "Construction of" etc. This article, created 8 August 2012‎, seems to be a fork of the "nuclear bunker" article. The premise seems to have been that the Air Force Station includes the nuclear bunker, heliport, support buildings, Mountain Man Park, Norad Rd, South Portal Road, Entrance Gate, and main parking lot. This is silly. We don't do articles about the parking facilities, traffic management facilities, souvenir shops and restaurants surrounding a sports stadium, for example. The Google Ngram seems to tell the story. This has long been known as "Cheyenne Mountain Complex" with that usage peaking in 1987 near the end of the Cold War, and confirmed by the name on the tunnel entrance. "Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station" has come on strong in recent years as it seems to have become the official name. So, we title the article with the WP:common name "Cheyenne Mountain Complex" and put the WP:official name "Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station" on top of the Infobox. These articles should be merged. – Wbm1058 (talk) 23:20, 22 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Air Force Manual 10-4, Air Force Directory of Addresses (various issues from 1973 to 1978) contains no entry for the station in its Alphabetical List of Installations and Named Activities. In the Geographical Listing of Units, the ADCOM Combat Operations Center and the 4690th Aerospace Intelligence Squadron are listed as located at "CHEYENNE MT, COLO", but in the alphabetical list, the ADCOM Combat Operations Center Mail Address is "Cheyenne Mountain Complex" and its message address as "CHEYENNE MOUNTAIN ADCOM COMPLEX".  In addition to the 4 February 2000 renaming mentioned above on 13 March 1987 NORAD Combat Operations Center was renamed Cheyenne Mountain Complex Air Force Base.  --Lineagegeek (talk) 20:06, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Yep, I think that may be part of the problem with merging the article.
 * NORAD currently says that The Cheyenne Mountain Complex is located at Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station (CMAFS) and the 21st Space Wing currently says that it supports the Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station. There are also other articles on the Air Force site for Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station. I thought I had seen a date for the naming of the Air Force Space Station - I'll see if I can find it.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 20:45, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The Gazette (Colorado Springs) reported in 2000 that "Cheyenne Mountain Air Station is now known as Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station". If you don't have access to HighBeam, I might be able to find a Pikes Peak Library District link to the article. It was also in the Congressional Record by the end of 2000 as the CMAFS.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 21:03, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Cheyenne Mountain Complex merge discussion
The article was tagged with a merge to tag to roll the Cheyenne Mountain Complex information into the Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station. Although the Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station is now responsible for the complex, it largely functioned as North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) and United States Northern Command (USNORTHCOM) headquarters, until those functions moved to Peterson Air Force Base.

It would seem that this merging into Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station could be confusing to track the historical information. For instance, if someone was looking for Cheyenne Mountain NORAD, would they know to look for the Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station - or would it make sense to them why they were redirected there?

I don't know, but I'll post a message on the WikiProject Cold War, WikiProject Military history, and WikiProject Aviation] talk pages to see if someone, who might not otherwise notice the merge tag was applied, could weigh in on this.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 01:26, 6 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Strong oppose the complex is independently notable, highly relevant in and of itself to Cold War history, and popular culture, and architecturally significant. Indeed it is much more notable than the Air Force Station. It is also a very large article, and I can't see how you'd even merge it without stripping most of the information, because we'd need to maintain balance in any merged article, so would result in a sub article anyways, making the merger useless as there would still need to be two articles. -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 01:53, 6 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Oppose I think the merger should be done the other way.  I also think that Cheyenne Mountain should be made a disambiguation page.  The complex is more notable than either the station or the mountain itself.  Other uses of the mountain can be redirected as appropriate.  --Lineagegeek (talk) 22:54, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm confused, are you suggesting that the article about the mountain, Cheyenne Mountain, should be eliminated? And, when you say "other uses of the mountain can be redirected as appropriate", sounds as if there should be multiple articles made from the main Cheyenne Mountain article, like Geography of Cheyenne Mountain, History of Cheyenne Mountain, Cheyenne Mountain antenna farm, and Cheyenne Mountain parks and recreation?
 * Where there are links to Cheyenne Mountain (What links here), I'm confused about what the links should route to - other than the article that describes its location, history, and many current uses beyond that of a military installation. In some cases, "antenna farm" or "history" articles may be a relevant link, but what about the mountain itself - geography, history? I guess I'm just confused about how this would accomplished and the net benefit. (See also Talk:Cheyenne Mountain).-- CaroleHenson (talk) 23:31, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm certainly not suggesting that the article on the mountain be eliminated or split, just that "Cheyenne Mountain" should be a disambiguation page and the current Cheyenne Mountain article should be moved to a page whose title includes a disambiguator. The list of links to the article on the mountain is illustrative.  The first dozen links all refer to the Cheyenne Mountain Complex and should link to that article, not one about geography.  --Lineagegeek (talk) 12:13, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah, gotcha, . It won't take long to run a routine on AWB and correct the links in those cases. There's been a fair amount of sorting out of the articles, and I squared away some of the wikilinks - but it looks like the Cheyenne Mountain ones that should point to the complex need to be squared away. I'll take care of that.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 15:47, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Boy, was that ever needed, ! Now, the only links to Cheyenne Mountain are in reference to the mountain itself (a few of which are in military articles) at What links here. I can totally see how this would have been frustrating for someone reading about the complex or Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station to get routed to the article about the mountain. Yikes! and ✅.


 * I thought I had added "For" statements at the top of Cheyenne Mountain and Cheyenne Mountain Complex, but I think someone removed them. It might be a good idea to return them. I'll put them back for now, while the discussion continues.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 17:28, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Just for background regarding disambiguation,, there had been a Cheyenne Mountain (disambiguation) page and it was nominated for deletion by me. The decision, involving the Disambiguation wiki project members/readers, was to delete: "17:43, 2 February 2015 Cryptic (talk | contribs) deleted page Cheyenne Mountain (disambiguation) (G6: Disambiguates only one extant Wikipedia article, Cheyenne Mountain)". Perhaps contributors will now find a disambiguation page is needed, but I'm just explaining the history.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 16:33, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

SBaker43 (talk) 16:52, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Suggestion: Do people feel it would be better if the Cheyenne Mountain AFS article should be merged into this one? Quite happy to do that.. Buckshot06 (talk) 04:30, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
 * No I don't think that the reverse should happen either. This is a notable architectural structure, I don't see why the AFS should merge here. If we don't want the AFS article, nominate it for deletion. -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 09:51, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Strong Oppose per 65.94.43.89. The Cheyenne Mountain facility is currently under the command and management of Peterson AFS at present; that isn't certain to always be true. Cheyenne has a lot of history that is only related to Peterson because of the current command structure. The AF has recently begun an upgrade to comm equipment to provide protection against an EMP threat. The more nuclear related threats that arise, the more likely it is that the command and control element would move from Peterson back to Cheyenne. If the Cheyenne article were integrated into Peterson and then NORAD moved back to Cheyenne, the effort to extract the relevant material would be non-trivial. Peterson is a small installation located more than 10 miles from Cheyenne; in fact part of Fort Carson lies between Cheyenne and Peterson. Both articles need to recognize the current command relationship, but not assume that it is permanent.

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150220230827/http://www.peterson.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=4745 to http://www.peterson.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=4745

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 * Verified as accurate, but replaced it with the proper new link from peterson.af.mil's website. (I wish the Air Force wouldn't have broken all their links by changing their pages around.)--Bassmadrigal (talk) 14:01, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

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