Talk:Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus

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 * CSMT.jpg

Trying to understand edits to the infobox
Comparing the two versions So it would be possible to put features from the second infobox station in the old version into the lone infobox station in the new version. Is it worth doing? -- Toddy1 (talk) 08:23, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Old version:
 * Infobox historic building
 * Infobox station
 * Infobox station
 * New version:
 * Infobox historic building
 * Infobox station

Requested move 23 May 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not Moved (non-admin closure) >>> Extorc . talk  06:46, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus → Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj Terminus – 1) Mumbai's Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus renamed to Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj Terminus, 2) Updated Name Image 49.32.234.130 (talk) 12:46, 23 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose - Not the WP:COMMONNAME at the moment. "Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus" (with quotes) yields 7,81,000 hits in Google while "Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj Terminus" (with quotes) yields 3,59,000 hits only. Some more time IMO. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:29, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose (I was pinged) I don't have access to user:Fylindfotberserk's statistics, but I can attempt an a priori argument. Chatrapati means one entitled to use a chatraa or the parasol of royal paraphernalia, i.e. the king.  Although Shivaji was in his early career only a jagirdar, a glorified absentee landlord,  of the Mughals (as were his father Shahaji and brother Venkoji of Bijapur and Tanjore respectively) and later a semi-independent chieftain in the Maratha uplands, or hill country, this form of grade inflation was common.  But to add "maharaj," or His Majesty (related to Maharaja, king or ruler) sounds redundant.   In other words, even if I were to forgive the logic of rebranding a railway station built by late 19th-century British technology after a 17th-century Indian ruler, I would find the formulation His Majesty King Shivaji Terminus not something that would roll off the tongue, and thereby make a discernible contribution to WP:COMMONNAME statistics.  The article Political history of Mysore and Coorg (1565–1760) section "Bijapur, Marathas, Mughals"  has more on the background to the logic.  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  20:43, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I note, furthermore: our competition, viz. UNESCO's World Heritage site and Encyclopedia Britannica, also do not have "Maharaj". See Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (Britannica) and Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (formerly Victoria Terminus) (UNESCO)  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  21:08, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose At best too soon. Johnbod (talk) 21:38, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 29 June 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – Material  Works  11:28, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus → Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj Terminus – As per WP:NAMECHANGES, extra weight is given to sources written after the name change. Here is an article from The Economic Times from 27 June 2023 that uses the new, official name. Other articles are here, here and here, all on different topics. This shows that sources published after the name change favouring the new name. Please do not argue based on Google searches, not all links on Google are reliable sources. Arnav Bhate (talk) 04:13, 29 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose - Many of the recent reliable news sources (1 January 2020 - present) after the name change (that happened in May 2017) use "Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus", examples -
 * Indian Express dated - December 17, 2022; quote = "Maharashtra has convened a rally from Byculla to Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus in Mumbai on Saturday"
 * DNA dated - Feb 09, 2023; quote = "From Gare Du Nord in Paris to Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus in Mumbai
 * The Telegraph - 05.01.23; quote = "Panoramic view of the Mumbai Fort Area. Mumbai Municipal Corporation Building (left) and (right) Chatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST)
 * India Today - Feb 19, 2020; quote = "thanks to the Chhatrapati Shivaji International Airport and the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus train station
 * Economic Times dated - Dec 16, 2022 ; quote = "The march from Jijamata Udyan to Azad Maidan near Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus"
 * The Times of India dated - May 4, 2023 ; quote = "revamp of New Delhi, Ahmedabad and Mumbai's Chhatrapati Shivaji terminus stations,"
 * Mint dated - 13 Sep 2022 ; quote = "Screen grab of Fox News anchor Tucker Carlson commenting on Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus in India"
 * Times Now dated - Jun 27, 2023; quote = "Ground Reality Of Mumbai Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus Railway Station At Rainy Season"


 * In Google books (many would be reliable for the purpose), in a period from Jan 1, 2020 to Jun 30, 2023, we get "2,630" hits for "chhatrapati shivaji terminus" for "953" hits for "chhatrapati shivaji maharaj terminus"


 * There would be more if checked from May 2017 onwards. Anyway per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NAMECHANGES, which writes - "on the other hand, reliable sources written after the name change is announced continue to use the established name when discussing the article topic in the present day, Wikipedia should continue to do so as well. Hence, I'm opposing the move. – Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:21, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Here are the statistics for each of the news sites you have listed and a few more reliable ones after June 2017


 * This shows that most news websites prefer the new name by a large margin. I would be happy to do this for any other news website you may want. On the point of Google Books, I have to agree that there are more results for the old name even in the timeframe after the name change, but I found that there were some results common to both, some results that were completely unrelated and some results that were repeated. Arnav Bhate (talk) 04:31, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * It only proves that the older name is being used widely, hence the oppose per − "on the other hand, reliable sources written after the name change is announced continue to use the established name when discussing the article topic in the present day, Wikipedia should continue to do so as well. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:33, 2 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Strong oppose for reasons already mentioned in the failed RfM of May 2023.  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  16:17, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose Just rejected last month! Johnbod (talk) 19:44, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Arnav Bhate (talk) 04:44, 2 July 2023 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Comment The airport, which was also renamed with the same logic one year later, does have the new name as the article title, Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj International Airport.