Talk:Chicanismo

OK I have some more specific recommendations for Chicanismo: I wish I would've taken time to make these suggestions before the article was featured as a DYK item. Pero ni modo. Let me know what you think about my suggestions and whether or not you plan to implement them.--Rockero 21:42, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Intro: The intro is dead-on, but there may be a need to explain the repression of indigenous culture in Mexico (at least prior to the Revolution) and the repression of Mexican culture in the pre-movement United States.
 * Major Themes: I agree that the connection to the Earth (especially the American continent(s)) is a major theme. In fact, I have even heard one reading of the meaning of "Chicano" that traced it back to "Xicano", or a "person of the land" (or something like that-it was a long time ago.)  Mexican and Indian agricultural traditions and the use of Mexican labor in the United States (and the rural lives farmworkers led) both contributed to this theme.  As far as "political transformation through powerful leadership", I tend to disagree.  The Chicano Movement has always been much more about collectivism than individualism.  That's part of the reason that Chicano topics are under-represented: many of the contributions are by unknown, unnamed, anonymous individuals.  Our culture cannot be judged by traditionally Western standards that stress individual accomplishments.  Of course, there were strong leaders (Chavez and Huerta, Hector P. Garcia, Corky Gonzales, etc.) but their leadership tended to not to be as political (with the exception of JA Gutiérrez, who does not have an article yet).  But the fact that political and social change are a big part of the movement is definitely a major theme.  Instead of "strong familial ties extending back into Mesoamerican pre-history", I think I'd say something like "personal and cultural identity", which in Chicano culture is highly dependent on family ties.  But Chicano identity also informed by the process of hybridization.  The mestizo is the mélange of the Indigenous and European blood and cultures, and the Chicano is a mix of the Mexican mestizo with the American.  As a part of the multicultural American experience, Chicanismo is also influenced by Native Americans (north and south of the border and not just the Aztecs), Asian Americans (especially Buddhist philosophy), African Americans (civil rights, the Brown Berets were modeled on the Black Panthers, and now hip-hop), and of course Anglos.  Where you write Mesoamerican influences into the family theme, I really think that Indigenismo is a theme on its own (although interwoven with the other themes).  This is not to be confused with Indianismo, which tended to idealize and stereotype natives, while indigenismo tried harder to see them as multi-dimensional people.  Finally, the art.  I agree completely, but I just think the phrasing is a bit flowery.  And you should include the performing arts, as well.  So I think it needs to be reworked, possibly with bullet points, and ought to include something like "The simple defense of Mexican and Chicano culture through its shameless practice."
 * Origins of the phrase - This part talks about the origin of the phrase "Chicano", not "Chicanismo". It should say somthing like "The word Chicanismo was first used in (year) by (person) to describe (phenomenon).  It comes from the word Chicano and the Spanish suffix "-ismo", (ism).  Discussion of the origin of the term "Chicano" belongs on the Chicano page, and it should include all the various explanations.  (I hope to help with this).
 * Spiritual artistic themes: Chicanos did explore Aztec and Mayan mythology, but I don't see the myth of Popcatepetl and Itzaccíhuatl as having that much influence over the movement. (although, to be fair, it is mentioned in Sandra Cisneros' Caramelo.)  The myth of Aztlán is much more fundamental (maybe it should be listed first?).  The Virgin of Guadalupe, for her role as the protectress of the Americas and of Mexicans especially, gave and continues to give Mexicans and Chicanos a sense of a unique spiritual destiny (Non fecit taliter omni natione, etc).  But the original documents (such as the Huei tlamahuiçoltica) were not influential until much later.
 * Comments about structure, etc: You start out the article saying that the movement began in the 1930's, but then give no history of any cultural activities in the 1930s.  Some discussion about the way the term Chicanismo is retroactively applied to pre-Chicano Movement writers, artists, and "social bandits" may be merited.  For instance, there is an author and artist who was a Franciscan priest in New Mexico in the early early days.  I'll look up his name and tell you, but a standard history-style retelling of cultural and political activities would be illuminative.
 * Finally, the images: The ollin Tonatiuh (Sun calendar) and the codex with the voyage from Aztlán are definitely keepers. As far as Tlaloc goes, I think Quetzalcoatl (and to a lesser extent, Coatlicue) are the Aztec deities that have most greatly benefitted from the Chicano interest in native religions.  They are commonly represented in murals and other artworks.  But maybe we could keep Tlaloc with a caption like "Tlaloc, the Aztec god of rain.  Chicanismo highlighted the lost religions and brought their figures into common currency", although I'd really prefer an image of the big Q.


 * These are good points and feel free to have a crack at it. Esp. the origins of the phrase. I looked for a P.D. Quetzalcoatl, but only found Tlaloc, is there a P.D. version we can use? This is a work in progress and I hope you will feel free to go for it.   Joaquin Murietta 22:14, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Rephrasing
Hey I'm just letting you know that im changing the following piece of article:

"The Legend of Popocatépetl and Iztaccíhuatl. Iztaccíhuatl's father sent him to war in Oaxaca, promising him his daughter Iztaccíhuatl as his wife if he returned (which Iztaccíhuatl's father presumed he would not)."

to

"The Legend of Popocatépetl and Iztaccíhuatl. Iztaccíhuatl's father sent Popocatépetl to war in Oaxaca, promising him his daughter Iztaccíhuatl as his wife if he returned (which Iztaccíhuatl's father presumed he would not)."

as it is a bit confusing to know exactly what is meant, I had to read it 3 times before i got that 'him' meant Popocatépetl. TeePee-20.7 06:51, 22 February 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TeePee-20.7 (talk • contribs) 06:50, 22 February 2007 (UTC).