Talk:Chicken Kiev speech

Contested deletion
This article should not be speedy deleted as being recently created, having no relevant page history and duplicating an existing English Wikipedia topic, because... extremely relevant historical speech, used in numerous articles and books. Washington Times is only one of many sources. User misidentified and used wrong deletion tag, there is no mention of the chicken kiev speech in the article Chicken Kiev, except for "see also" which i added a few minutes before creating the article. --Spoildead (talk) 15:22, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * This article should not be speedy deleted as being recently created, having no relevant page history and duplicating an existing English Wikipedia topic, because... It got ample coverage, and years later Bush even explained things to clarify his position. Editing article now. --  D r e a m Focus  15:34, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Highbeam shows 93 results for this .   D r e a m Focus  15:39, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * As an admin who reviews speedy deletion noms I would suggest there was very little chance the article was ever in real danger of being deleted for the reason specified in that nom. Being mentioned in a section in another article that is only tangentially related is not what that criterion is intended for and I would like to think most admins would not fall for that. Nice improvements in the meantime, I've done some re-organizing and cleanup as well. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:07, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

chicken George
Was Chicken George related to this at all? He was too chicken to face Clinton in a debate, so they mocked him that way. But did this have anything to do with the Chicken Kiev speech?  D r e a m Focus  22:18, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I can't say I have seen a source that definitively ties the two together, but the whole "Bush is a chicken/wimp" thing, as I recall, first came up in the 88 election. Before anyone knew what the word "meme" meant we had one for Bush. He got away from it for a while with the first gulf war, but it came back in the 92 campaign. It seems at lest tangentially related, perhaps more suited for a "see also" now that I think of it. Beeblebrox (talk) 00:18, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Significance of "Chicken Kiev"
It is not yet noted in the article that Safire's deeply wounding barb evokes the commonplace that the familiar Chicken Kiev of US fundraising luncheons would likely be the only cultural reference to Kiev (or perhaps to anything Ukrainian) for an American of superficial education, with a parochial worldview and little comprehension of the contemporary political subtleties. The reference itself passed right over Bush's head... --Wetman (talk) 17:27, 12 January 2013 (UTC)


 * That's an interesting, if condescending, opinion on the matter. I doubt most people would think that the former head of the CIA and Vice President under Reagan or his speechwriter, a professor of political science specializing in the Soviet Union, would meet that description. They were certainly both very wrong about what would happen if Ukraine left the Soviet Union and about the Ukrainians resolve to do so, but I don't think ignorance was the cause. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:06, 16 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Is the speech related to that dish? One is a type of chicken meal, and the other is a speech where chicken means cowardice.  They just happen to both have started in Kiev.   D r e a m Focus  20:09, 16 January 2013 (UTC)