Talk:Chihuahua (dog breed)/Archive 1

Origin
According to http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/chihuahua.htm Chihuahuas are believed to have come from China to Mexico. From there they went to Europe. The wiki article claims they came from Spain to Mexico. Discus? --- 71.71.73.98 00:38, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * This article needs some mention of the origin debate. I've heard from various sources that the breed either originated in China, Spain, or was a native Mexican breed. --Krsont 12:24, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

celebs who own dogs
Is it really necessary to list which celebs own a particular breed? It doesn't add value to the article. Plus if every current and former celeb is added, the list would rapidly become the largest section of the article. --75.24.94.239 15:59, 20 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I really don't think so - I really think that these belong on the celeb's page - not on the dog page.  I have removed them.  Trysha (talk) 21:45, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

"Chicken of the Aztecs"
Is it true chihuahuas were bred for eating? I suppose they would be fairly easy to raise for the purpose. Citizen Premier 05:50, 14 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Ive heard this too, can someone shead some light on this?Patcat88 20:56, 20 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I've never heard that before. I'll look into it. Kitty the Random 06:59, 26 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I heard that they were bred to be babied and cared for, not eaten. I think that the notion of chihuahua eating is totally false.


 * No, i've read that as well. I'll find the source and list it. 66.184.151.157 17:07, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Needs size data
The article needs size data (length, etc) on this adorable breed. Dionyseus 07:39, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Chihuahuas are rarely spoken of in length/height terms. They're almost 100% talked about in relation to their weight. Breed standard is 2-6 lbs with 2-5lbs being preferable.

Fennec foxes
It is pretty amazing that such a small dog, can live so long. They can live up to 18 years! The idea that Chihuahuas were descended from fennec foxes flies in the face of all genetic evidence. (I swear I did not mean all that alliteration in that last sentence.) Foxes are a completely different genus as well as species from dogs; in comparison, horses and donkeys are much more closely related, and offspring of the two are sterile mules. Lions and tigers can be crossed and sometimes the offspring are fertile, but they are much more closely related, being two closely related species of the same genus. Saying that Chihuahuas may be descended from foxes is one of those completely unscientific stories that casts aspersions on the validity of Wikipedia as a research tool. Sorry for sounding so nasty in that last sentence; whomever wrote the entry about fennec foxes, I apologize, but it touched a nerve.


 * I agree and I've removed that section. By the way don't forget to always sign your posts in discussion pages by putting four tildes.  Dionyseus 01:40, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, well, sure, I should do that, but....--Raulpascal 17:19, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Infobox photo?
The photo in the infobox doesn't seem like a great choice to me. I'd use a photo of the dog standing, like these ones. I'd replace it myself, but I can't decide which image to use. Pharaoh Hound 13:16, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think either of these is a particularly good photo, but the one on the left is slightly better. What is really needed is a good, clean, closeup profile shot of a standing Chihuahua. Exploding Boy 15:50, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I see what you mean about the photo quality. I'd love to take a new one myself, but I don't know anyone who owns any Chihuahuas, so I can't take the photo. Pharaoh Hound 21:35, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I own a chihuahua who was in a show before I got him. I own a copy of his ribbon photo, I should scan it and submit it for this page. It would be a really good specimen. 24.89.255.51 Ok, I've scanned the picture and now how do I put it in the article?

Why was the main photo changed? I do not think this chihuahua really represents the ideal chihuahua, not that the one before it did. This particular dog looks as though somewhere along the line his family tree was mixed with another breed. Any thoughts? Either way I believe this photo should be changed, whether it be back to the original or a better photo. Thank you. Looking again at the photo when larger, the chihuahua doesn't look mixed. Who posted the new photo? Is there a better shot of this dog? Maybe not shiney? markatie 12:02, 07 May 2007 --David Shankbone 16:24, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I posted the photo, the Chihuahua is a pure breed and comes from a line of champions. The coat is as shiny as the photo.  I don't know what "ideal chihuahua" means to you.
 * I agree with markatie. the photo you posted looks mixed unless it is clicked on, and the chihuahua posted here standing looks like a better representation since it does not need to be clicked on in order to be able to identify its chihuahua features. Adreamtonight 08:08, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I think the left picture looks good. 99.144.170.189 (talk) 19:56, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Proposed move
Chihuahua (dog) to Chihuahua. By far, the most common usage of the word in English. Helicoptor 15:51, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation and sign your vote with ~ 

There's already an article at Chihuahua. It's about the Mexican state. Exploding Boy 16:26, 24 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Oppose - it's not like the dog's notability outstrips that of the state by a huge margin. Mexican states are pretty notable things, and I feel comfortable with that being the primary topic. I could see an argument for putting a disambiguation page at Chihuahua, but not this article. — sjorford++ 18:17, 24 June 2006 (UTC)


 * There's already a Chihuahua (disambiguation) page as well. I'm removing this move request.  Anyone who types in "Chihuahua" and ends up at the article on the state will be directed to the disambiguation page and wind up here.  Exploding Boy 18:28, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the dog is the most common use for english speakers, but I still like the disambig page. It is nice to go to a page and see wow I didn't know there where other uses like that. Jon513 19:30, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

removed line
I have removed the line
 * Ernesto "Moto" Picasso, often seen around town chihuahua of famous NYC socialite Jennifer Bernstein and well known set designer Tom Lenz

from famous chihuahuas. The line was added by who has not been 100% on accuaracy of information. Jon513 19:25, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

teacup section
I don't like how we talk about the teacup chihuahuas. I feel as if there is too much opinion. Although I agree, I wouldnt consider it wikipedia quality. What do we think? User:tingalex 21:33, 24 November, 2006 (UTC)

Iarnuocon 16:07, 27 December 2006 (UTC) The section on 'teacup' and 'deer-faced' chihuahuas is exceptionally misleading. Neither term is officially recognized by any major kennel club, is not mentioned in the AKC standard, and the 'teacup' appelation is specifically condemned by the Chihuahua Club of America. There is no subdivision of the breed into standard and 'teacup' sizes or 'apple-head' and 'deer-head' head-types.

Additionally, the claim that 'teacup' sized chihuahuas are the result of many generations of selective breeding is also misleading. With the exception of irreputable backyard breeders whose main consideration is monetary, no clubs seeking to improve the chihuahua try to breed for excessively small size. In fact, such breeding works against the health of the breed, as smaller bitches are often incapable of breeding successfully or carrying more than one puppy to term, and stand a much higher chance of dying during labor. Smaller specimens of chihuahua often have health problems absent in larger and heartier specimens. 'Teacup' sized chihuahuas often have trouble with the alignment of their bite, luxating patellas, and fragility of their bones. Heartier specimens of chihuahua are able to physically handle most activities they may engage in, whereas the 'teacup' chihuahua is likely to break a leg jumping from the sofa to the floor. Misleading potential buyers by stating that excessively small chihuahuas are "just as healthy" as larger chihuahuas does a disservice to the breed, and calls into question the truthfulness of this entry.

Furthermore, this statement: "Breeders who have invested large amounts of money into larger-sized chihuahua breeding stock are quick to mark teacup breeders as irreputable, simply because they know the smaller chihuahuas are higher in demand and cut into the profitability of breeding larger chihuahuas. Similarly, these breeders misunderstand the concept of selective breeding for size and assume that teacup breeders are merely reproducing runts (which genetically would not even produce small dogs unless the parents were small to begin with)." is simply incorrect. The primary reason breeders refer to teacup breeders as irreputable is because teacup breeders are not out to improve the chihuahua stock, but rather mislead potential buyers as to health concerns and the care that has to be taken of these tiny, fragile dogs in order to cater to the whims of a poorly educated public. Any reputable breeder understands the concept of selective breeding for size: Chihuahua size is the result of the mixture of six alleles for size, and tiny pups can be the offspring of normal-sized adults, just as a normal-sized pup may be the offspring of two tiny pups-- what's important is a thorough understanding of the hereditary lines that are joined in a breeding, and having an idea of what is likely to improve the breed stock and result in an excellent specimen. The quoted statement simply projects the greed and lack of understanding of teacup breeders onto the efforts of reputable breeders in an attempt to justify the production of generally poor specimens of chihuahua.

What I've taken away from this section of the wikipedia article is that the author seeks to justify his or her own poorly thought out breeding program, and seriously misunderstands the purpose of breeding chihuahuas, the underlying genetics that affect specimen size, and the likely health outcomes for specimens at the smallest extreme of the size range for this breed of dog.

I'd like to see this section rewritten with a more balanced view, and an eye toward informing the public about the very real concerns associated with the breeding and purchasing of 'teacup' sized and 'deer-head' chihuahuas. Iarnuocon 16:07, 27 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I have yet to read anything beyond opinion that leads me to believe that there is any inherant danger in the purchasing of a "deerheaded" Chihuahuas. It seems odd than on one hand you would advocate against an arbitrary non-breed-standard designation like teacup, then advocate for distinguishing supposedly deerheaded Chihuahuas in the very same paragraph. The dog may not be breed standard in appearance, but that doesn't mean the purchase of such a dog is dangerous. "Teacup" breeding clearly leads to health problems. The shape of a dog's snout and head in relation to breed standards seems distinguished. I recommend that any discussion of deerheadedness be limited to noting that Chihuahuas with that head shape are not conforming to breed standards for showing and etc... Jo7hs2 21:24, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

'Chewy pep'
This article was created '00:50, 17 December 2006': Chewy pep. It is likely to be deleted quickly as the content is only "A slang expression for a Chihuahua-breed dog; originating in Quebec, Canada. In Quebec, a Chihuahua-breed dog is sometimes referred to as a "Chewy Pep"." If this statement is accurate, the article can be converted to a redirect pointing here; it will not survive as an article as it is a slang-dictionary entry (dicdef). Regards --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 05:15, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Merle 01-11-07
The information about merle in Chihuahuas is incorrect. They are the result of cross breeding and the Chihuahua Club Of America is in the process of revising the standard to exclude the merle pattern and to Disqualify it from the show ring. The health information is also incorrect about merle and this link explains the risks associated with this pattern. http://www.genmarkag.com/home_companion.php I was on the merle Committee for the Chihuahua Club of America and I am also the representative of the CCA membership that has signed and petitioned the club to have the standard revised. Please remove this information as it only encourages the cross breeding of Chihuahuas. Thank you

Gloria Lambert —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.89.130.38 (talk) 02:20, 13 January 2007 (UTC).

If Merle information is incorrect why does the AKC include Merle as a color on the registration for Chihuahua? Maybe the CCA should learn to accept chihuahuas of every size and color. I have seen the Merle gene color in other breeds as well, as long as the breeder does not breed merle to merle as in any breed of dog the dogs should be accepted.

Too many photos
This page seems to have far more photos than most on wikipedia. Would it make sense to trim down the number of photos here? The purpose of a wikipedia article is not to provide a gallery of images featuring the article's subject in a variety of poses. Jaredlenowguy 00:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree - I reorganized and tried to preen the page from superfluous photos. It's just an attempt to spur comments and ideas.  I thought it looked too much like a "Dog Fancy" web page of Chihuahuas, high on "cute photos" and low on "added value".  Again, open to ideas, revisions and suggestions.  --DavidShankBone 03:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I think the photos add to the page because the breed has great variety in colour and mood

Vicious/Stupid characterization
In a few places, people have referred to the appearance and/or temperament of the Chihuahua as "vicious" and "stupid". I do not feel it is appropriate to characterize any domestic dog breed as "vicious" or "stupid" because (1) "vicious" has a legal connotation that the animal is unsafe to own and/or should be destroyed for the safety of society, (2) both are a value judgement best suited for a specific specimen's personality (which can vary greatly depending on its socialization and training). I have removed the "stupid" comment, and believe a more accurate temperament description would be the change I made (with regard to Chis and children) to "tendency to bite when frightened" rather than simply "vicious".

Does anyone disagree? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Abinkleysf (talk • contribs) 03:00, 2 February 2007 (UTC).

Famous Chihuahua section
Is this section for Chihuahuas who have achieved some sort of notoriety? Some of the celebrities listed don't have famous Chihuahuas, the only thing notable is that these Chihuahuas are owned by celebrities. In other words, Taquito is a notable Chihuahua in his own right, but "Dino Dobie, Black and Brown chihuahua companion of child actress Hailey Anne Nelson" is apparently on the list because of who owns him. I don't feel strongly one way or the other, although we should rename the section if we plan to include dogs notable simply because of who owns them. Tinkerbell, Paris Hilton's dog, is obviously notable in her own right. --DavidShankBone 23:09, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Famous Chihuahuas - to keep or not to keep
Chihuahuas as a breed are one of the most notable out there and feature prominently in movies, advertising campaigns and in high-profile organizations. Many people think of the Taco Bell dog when they think of Chihuahuas, or Bruiser from Legally Blonde. I believe this section is worth keeping because it fleshes out the prominance of the breed to a reader, it makes the article more embedded in Wikipedia with wiki-links to the books, products, shows and such that feature prominent Chihuahuas, and it rewards a reader with what they think when they turn to the article for information about the breed. For instance, Paris Hilton is so conflated with her Chihuhuas, and the Taco Bell dog is so famous, that we'd be remiss to not include a section about how the breed is so prominently featured in pop culture. It's not "trivial" it's very pertinent. Few breeds can boast as much prominence as the Chihuahua. --David Shankbone 15:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The article could benefit from a non-listy paragraph describing the Chihuahuas's place in popular culture. However, a rambling list like this encourages people to add their own dogs.  For example, the version you keep reverting to features a picture of "the University of Puerto Rico's School of Medicine Volleyball Mascot."  How is that obscure school's volleyball team notable, let alone their team's mascot?  Yes, we could spend time removing the list items that don't seem to meet notability guidelines... or we could accept that the section violates the "Wikipedia is not a indiscriminate collection of information" guideline.  I've seen so many articles where these pop culture lists become the source of petty squabbling over what should be included and what shouldn't; these articles invariably are better off once the lists are forked or removed altogether.  I feel that a well-wrtitten paragraph should replace the list, but I would like to hear what other think.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 16:00, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep It just needs to be regularly patrolled. -  hmwith  talk   16:33, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Since the list has existed on the article longer than you have existed on Wikipedia, and has not been a major problem for the article, many of your fears are unfounded. I think an introductory paragraph about the prominence of Chihuahuas in pop culture is merited, but I also think the list is, as well.  Aside from all that, I have a natural skepticism with "slippery slope" arguments in that they rest on fears rather than realities.  --David Shankbone 18:36, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * No one seems interested in deleting the non-notable entries from the list. Paquito, for example, is clearly some college student's dog and not at all notable.  I'd clean it up myself but I disagree with the list's very existence.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 02:54, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * There's no problem in removing an unnotable, but you stand alone in feeling this list degrades the article. --David Shankbone 04:30, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I know no one appears agrees with me; that is why I have not removed it after you restored it. I merely wanted to encourage those who think the list is a good idea to try keep it free from nonsense; so thank you for removing the sillier entries.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 01:52, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Photo talk
Can I get some agreement that the photo of "Papi" on the messy bed is not only a poor quality photo, but the angle it was taken at also makes it a poor shot? This photo has been placed on the page as a "healthy Chihuahua" (which is OR) and a "Chihuahua in submissive state". However, I wonder if anyone can get a photograph of their Chihuahua as the vet for the "health" section? I think that photo could replace the tricolor photo. The longhair photo seems good, is of good quality, and shows another aspect of the breed (a long coat). Ideas? Suggestions? Huzzahs? --David Shankbone 14:15, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The "Papi" photo isn't necessary as a replacement, and it's hard to see a peach-coloured chihuahua on a peach-coloured bed. The current photo ("little man") more than suffices, it's easy to see the chihuahua, and the background does not blend in with or distract from the subject. -- 健次 (derumi)talk 21:16, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I posted the tri-color chihuahua photo because there seems to be a big misconception that chihuahua's are either always tan (thanks to images of the Taco Bell dog or Paris Hilton's dog in the media) or one colored. I have had multiple people say they were surprised to see that chihuahuas could be chocolate tri-colored like that and I thought it was a good example of the possibilities. I think the page is looking pretty good from when I first began watching it, there were about 20 photos that had nothing to do with anything. I think we have a good collection now, although we are missing a good photo for the health secion. --Markatie 12:43, 18 June 2007
 * I don't have a problem leaving the tri-color. I think the health section could stand to use a "Chihuahua at vet" photo.  --David Shankbone 17:14, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * There doesn't seem to be any sufficientely health-related images on the Chih Commons page. Though after looking at some of the other images, I think I may be replacing say, the long-haired image with a better one. VanTucky 22:30, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Though this image of an overweight Chih might be good to use...




 * What do you think David? VanTucky 22:32, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm fine with the new long-hair. The fat Chihuahua would work in the health section if there is mention about the problems with overfeeding the breed, which due to their size (and seemingly endless appetite) is a special consideration.  --David Shankbone 02:01, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Papi.jpg is a superior image. That other dog is clearly half boston terrirer, and looks nothing like a common chihuahua. People coming to this article and seeing it will not be able to recognize a true chihuahua when they see one. it is also not in a typical chihuahua environment, most chihuahuas spend almost all their time indoors Chichichihua 16:33, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

The idea that simply because it is black and white, that the lead image doesn't look like a chihuahua is nonsense, pure and simple. If you actually read the breed's AKC standard, the dog in question meets all points for appearance amply. Furthermore, the "papi" image is completely unsuitable as it: VanTucky (talk) 16:54, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * is of poor exposure.
 * has bad composition. You can hardly see the dog, and it is way out of proportion in the framing.
 * Encylopedic images should a solid, neutral background if possible. No way is the lead image for an extremely popular dog breed going to have some home snapshot on some bed.
 * User:Chichichihua is only interested in being disruptive. I've raised the issue on the admin board.  --David Shankbone 17:00, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * User:Chichichihua blocked for 31 hours.-Wafulz 19:44, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

2nd image change
I reverted to the original image, as there are already better examples of both long-haired chihs and the first one was a better example of the color in question. VanTucky 21:58, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Longhaired Chihuahua
They don't get that fluffy... I have a LH chihuahua and he doesn't have that much hair! The picture of the chihuahua looks like a pomeranian!


 * That's good to know, about your Chihuahua. I have a longhair Chi and its' hair is some of the longest I have ever seen on any dog of any size.  Eli lilly 18:09, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

That photo is definitely a pomeranian. I own a purebred of both and that is not a chihuahua! Babiblu04 19:22, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Please remember that there is often more variation in breeds than the typical purebred AKC/UKC standard. Wikipedia is not a promoter of breed standards, and every image need not demonstrate the image of the "perfect" dog. VanTucky (talk) 19:37, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Are we sure it's a Chihuahua? --David Shankbone 19:59, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It is listed under the Commons Chihuahua section, but as it was uploaded from a different language wiki I am unsure. Let's switch to another option for now. VanTucky  (talk) 20:22, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Main Photo
[[Image:[[Image:BostonTerrierBrindleStand_w.jpg|thumb]] I have a problem with the main photo. When I first saw the chihuahua, I first thought it was the wrong breed posted. the chihuahua posted looks terribly like a baby Boston Terrier, it practically looks the same or mixed with the other dog (I understand that Boston Terrier has short tails, but again, other users have mention this dog appearing to be "mixed". I believe many other users will also be confused) Sometimes in photography, a photo may look great due to sharpness and quality, but its not representative of subject as whole, esp. in this case as the black dog appears to be a puppy version of a different breed as the bigger brown dog.

I believe other pictures may be best first, for one thing, I recommend ChihuahuaPrue.jpg as its looks can not be so easily confused with another breed as much as this one. The papi.jpg shot is also public domain which according to wikipedia, comprises the body of knowledge and innovation (especially creative works such as writing, art, music, and inventions) in relation to which no person or other legal entity can establish or maintain proprietary interests within a particular legal jurisdiction. This means papi.jpg shot can be cropped and colors highlighted for better use, which I or any other wiki-user will be willing to do. This Little Man Chihuahua has a license, and while its license permits usage and editing, it is not the same as public domain, which is where Wikipedia leans to, as is it based on free-content. Unless someone is willing to clean up papi.jpg, ChihuahuaPrue.jpg appears to be a better photo for this article. It may not be as "photo-quality" as the photo now in place, but it does the breed far better justice.

note that i'm not saying this image is not a chihuahua but i'm saying that there are other chihuahua photos out there which show are more representative. I do understand that when you click on the image it looks more like a chihuahua, but it should appear as a chihuahua from the get go. Please discuss.Adreamtonight 10:08, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think your arguments are convincing. 1.  In terms of quality, this is the best photograph of a Chihuahua that we have, both in terms of background and in terms of sharpness.  2.  The Chihuahua in question is an AKC-registered Chihuahua, Registration #TR02707904, bred by Kandis Jatko and whelped 1/11/2005.  There is no Boston Terrier anywhere in its line.  He is only six pounds, and perhaps the close-up makes him look bigger.  Since it is a Chihuahua, full-breed, it qualifies for inclusion.  Many dogs resemble other breeds.  3.  The license argument makes no sense - all these photographs you propose are the same license, and the Little Man photo is licensed under GFDL, the same that the entire Wikipedia is licensed under; that makes it public domain and the same license as the photographs you propose.  So I don't understand this license argument you make. 4.  The papi.jpg shot is not only poor quality, it is a poor angle of the dog itself, and there is already a good deal of consensus not to use it at all.  One can barely see the dog.  5.  The only other person who has taken issue with the "purity" of this AKC-registered dog who comes from a line of champions is a person who has trolled me for seven months, taking issue with most of my photographs.  It wasn't about the dog, it was about me.  But I don't think anyone is going to think that we have a French bulldog as the main photo on the Chihuahua page, and I think it's a trifle to argue that. -- David  Shankbone  12:09, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * And to be honest, I don't see the similarities between the bulldog and the main photo Chihuahua, except similar markings and they both have upright ears. Beyond that, body structure, jowls, nose size, mouth, head width - none of it resembles the other.  They just have slightly similar markings and upright ears.  -- David  Shankbone  12:15, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Those dogs are obviously not similar in structure at all. Th tail, eye set, skull shape, trunk shape, snout, leg proportion, (I could go on and on) are completely different. David, do you perhaps have another image of the dog that can show a side view, just to demonstrate the difference here? The other images of the Chihuahua's that could be possibly suitable don't hold up to the current one for several reasons. Either they do not have good composition (with non-neutral backgrounds etc.) or they are simply poor photographs in terms of exposure and such. The images proposed both suffer from those problems. As for the papi image, not to mention that it is awful even cropped (I did it myself and the result was not any better) it is probably not a good idea to use an image that was at the focal point of a banned user's WP:POINT disruption and stalking of David. VanTucky  (talk) 16:50, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I can re-take the photo. I actually have been wanting to do so for awhile, with the dog next to a soccer ball (or something) to give a height point-of-reference.  I thought that would look kind of cool and I wanted to to do this absent any discussion about the dog's purity, etc.  But I will try to get moving a bit more on it now.  -- David  Shankbone  16:55, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I also want to make a general comment here. Wikipedia is not an advocate for breeders, fanciers, or organization's such as the AKC. We do not make value judgements when it comes to which dogs are better based on a particular breed standard of "purity", and we assume good faith when it comes to the statements of authors as to the content of their photographs. VanTucky  (talk) 17:00, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I definitely think the new photo is NOT the best photo to post - but I do think maybe the one that was there before should be retaken - better lighting maybe - the grass behind the dog isn't my favorite backdrop. Why don't we have a photo of maybe more than one dog in that space? To show more than one type of color. markatie (talk) 16:22, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I also have a problem with the main photo. That chihuahua is UGLY! Seriously, just get some pictures taken from a registered dog show in your area, because that dog does not look representative of Chihuahuas--Healyhatman (talk) 20:01, 24 December 2007 (UTC).

Heart-Kun
He's a chihuahua born in Japan that was born with a heart shaped pattern in his fur. Would that make him famous enough for the list?74.229.215.99 13:27, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * he is the cutest thing ever! http://message.snopes.com/photos/animals/graphics//heartkun1.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.122.253.228 (talk) 03:08, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and added it. Jo7hs2 21:29, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

New Smallest Dog
There was a recent news story about Booboo, supposedly the new 'world's smallest dog' at 4 inches tall. Could someone fix this (as the smallest dog on the page is outdated?) 76.10.153.220 02:36, 4 October 2007 (UTC) im cool —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.207.80.236 (talk) 05:39, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

The verenice
The first sentence mentions The verenice... any clue what that means? I'm very familiar with the Chihuahua Breed and wonder what that word means.

Tlspiegel (talk) 03:39, 20 December 2007 (UTC)tlspiegel 12/19/07

First Picture
The first picture in this article is a Fox Terrier - WTF? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.222.230.184 (talk) 23:58, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Lead needs to be written
We all should take a crack at writing a proper WP:LEAD for the article. It's too barren at the top with the one sentence. -- David  Shankbone  20:54, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Current lead image
Is not very good. The colours distract from the general head/face shape of the animal, which in any case doesn't appear to closely conform to the breed standard. Also, the penis is really distracting. All in all, a different photo would be much better. Exploding Boy (talk) 18:17, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think anyone else is distracted by the dog penis; I mean, come on. I think the rest of the issue is a question of cropping.  The dog is very much the breed standard, indeed comes from a line of champions (AKC-registered Chihuahua, Registration #TR02707904, bred by Kandis Jatko and whelped 1/11/2005).  -- David  Shankbone  20:03, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * No, it's an issue of colouration, as I said. Plus the photo just isn't that great.  There was a much better lead photo previously; what happened to that one?  Exploding Boy (talk) 22:32, 28 February 2008 (UT) They are also very cute.
 * In fact, on second look, there were a lot of photos here before and nearly all seem to have been replaced. What's going on?  Exploding Boy (talk) 06:50, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Choice of photos
I support the removal of the current photo in the infobox and the use of this photo,, in its place. In the current photo the dog's paws are hidden by the grass, its tail is partly hidden, the lighting is uneven, and the poor thing looks like it's taking the pic under duress. In ChihuahuaPrue the paws are visible, as is the tail, the lighting is even, and the dog looks happy -- overall a better pic. Also, I support removing the current contrasting sizes pic and the use of this photo,, in its place. The current pic has too many uninvolved items that are distracting, including legs and a blurred passer-by. In IMG013biglittledogFX_wb the only objects are the two dogs whose sizes are being contrasted -- the point of the pic.--72.76.89.177 (talk) 23:00, 8 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Please note that this user was banned for harassment.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 03:14, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I think the proposed image is better than the current one, but ideally it should be a standing profile shot. Exploding Boy (talk) 16:20, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Proposed image is much lower resolution than present one. Also, the anonymous IP above has been advocating for the removal of Shankbone's images all across Wikipedia, a motive which should be taken into consideration when deciding this. Cary Bass demandez 17:02, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm in favor of keeping the current "Little man" photo given it's superior resolution and quality. OhNo itsJamie Talk 17:21, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Photo Choice
I completely agree with calls to change the photograph shown on this page, which in my personal opinion is just not a very good example of the breed. I would be very happy to ask for permission for us to have a picture of Champion Bramerita Naughty But Nice (Doughnut), which is the best known example of the breed in either long or short coat varieties and is the top winning show dog of all time in the world, so you arent' ever going to get a picture of a better example of a Chihuahua. I'm sure Shelda, her owner would be more than obliging in providing a pic that can be used or giving us permission to use one from her website. Would that be satisfactory to everyone? Crazy-dancing (talk) 19:15, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That's going to depend on the quality of the photograph. If we could get a high-quality photo of a notable Chihuahua, that would be great. OhNo itsJamie Talk 20:27, 10 March 2008 (UTC)



Picture Option
This is the picture I was recommending for use on this page. It shows Champion Bramerita Naughty But Nice, the top winning Chihuahua and show dog of any breed in history (am a bit of a fan). This is a picture from Shelda's own collection and is openly available for use without permission. Crazy-dancing (talk) 10:36, 11 March 2008 (UTC)



Which of the three proposed photos?

 * Though I still like Shankbone's "Little Man" photo, though I could see how Chihauhau_01_K might be a better lead photo in terms of illustrating breed characteristics. Strictly from an aesthetic standpoint, I like "Little Man" better. Crazy-dancing is also an aesthetically nice picture, especially to illustrate a long-hair; my biggest object with it is the low-resolution. (More and more folks these days are taking advantage of price drops on nice big LCD monitors...) OhNo itsJamie Talk 03:04, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I personally like "Chihauhau_01_K", although I agree its a little ordinary and theres not as much aesthetic appeal. The "little man" picture I believe is distracting. For me personally, its in the ears, which don't look standard to me. But perhaps thats just me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.138.149.189 (talk) 16:52, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Badly written paragraph; possible misinformation?
The below paragraph is found in the Chihuahua page, and I believe it needs editing and verification, at best, but more than likely should just be deleted. I don't have a Wikipedia account, so I can't do it myself, but maybe someone might be able to do so.

For one thing, the grammar is incorrect, and there are some inappropriate usage of capital letters. Plus, there are some spelling errors. While doing a quick Google search, I couldn't find any information that points to all tea cup Chihuahuas as suffering from Hydrocephalus, which is what this paragraph implies.

"The Very small size dog called the tea cup in fact suffers from Hydrocephalus (Water head), where the blockage of CSF outflow in the ventricles or in the subarachnoid space over the brain. The dome of the head is larger in size and the eyes are also squint showing outwards. This is caused by the incorrect pressure on the brain. The dome of the head is normally larger than the normal Chihuahua. They normally have a tendency of having seizures. Many breeders do not know of this. It is commonly found in the Chuhuahua,Toy Pom and very small breeds of dogs."

Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.18.120.255 (talk) 21:17, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Did the best I could from a copyediting standpoint, but I don't think I've ever even met a chihuahua, so someone may want to still evaluate this stuff for accuracy. Chaoticfluffy (talk) 19:41, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Average Lifespan?
It says the average lifespan is 8-22 years.. With a gap of 14 years, this does not seem like an "average" at all, but rather a range. SousaFan88 (talk) 08:18, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

need help!
i have a chi. he is a very loving boy, his name is remmy. he is a blk/wh. more blk than wht. short hair. i call him my crazy little bat man..lol!he just goes crazy and runs in circles..this leeds me to my question i can't seem to find anywhere...is this normal for him to always run in circles? he does this when he is happy,playing some times eating..deffinatly when he goes potty and just fore no reason at all. he makes himselfe dizzy! my other question is how in the world do i potty train this little man????!!!!! i have tried potty pads.(didn't even snif it) also tried that training pee,pee stuff.(OMG!) grossssss! ihave him going out side but only when i take him out every 1/2 hr. to an hr. Sometimes he will come in just from pooing or peeing and pee or poo on the floor! i even give him a treat after each time he goes pee or poo when we are outside. OH PLEASE HELPE! any ideas? thank you. please email me. c.kennedy35@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.154.68.8 (talk) 21:31, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I found a few spelling mistakes
I found several misspellings in the history section. I will write the correct spelling under the phrase which contains the misspelled word(s) in order to make it easier for someone to correct (I am new and not allowed to edit the article myself because it is semi locked).

The most common theory and most likely is that Chihuahuas are descended from the Techichi, a companion dog favoured by the Toltecs and that the modern dog developed through breeding with miniaturised Chinese dogs brought to the Americas by the Spanish Conquistadors.

1) Favored

2) Miniaturized

After the Toltecs were conquered by the Aztecs, it is believed that this early ancestor of the Chihuahua was adopted as a symbol of the upper classes and it has been suggested that they were used in religious ceremonies for the absolution of sins and to guide the sprits of the dead.

I am not sure if the writer intended to mean sprits or spirits.

In terms of size, the present day Chihuahua is much smaller than its ancestors and this is thought to be down to the introduction of miniaturised Chinese dogs into South America by the Spanish.

1) Miniaturized.

Since that time, the Chihuahua has remained consistently popular as a breed, particularly in America when the breed was first recognised by the American Kennel Club in 1904.

1) Recognized.

I hope that helps. Nyctimus (talk) 23:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Nyctimus, welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for taking the time to post these details on the talk page. I corrected the "sprits" error (to "spirits"), but the rest of the items you pointed out are actually British spelling/American spelling differences, and not misspellings. Both spelling styles are generally acceptable here (see Manual_of_Style), so since there is no particular reason for this article to be spelled with American rather than British spelling, I didn't change "favoured," "recognised," or "miniaturised." Chaoticfluffy (talk) 23:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Temperment...
I think, having no biases among breeds, that this one is the most charming. They have great natural ability at judging people and winning them over. I don't own one, but have met several and among all dogs, they are the most winning personalities. I just hope someone out there can find a reference to back up my opinion. ;) The article generally discusses biting, but this breed has more wonderful qualities than that.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.73.12.150 (talk) 05:26, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

photo is AWFUL
Can we PLEASE do something about the awful photo on th is page? It doesn't even look like a chihuahua! Some guy took a picture of his dog and claimed it is a champion chihuahua which is just laughable. Looks like this has been argued over forever, I'm being bold and changing it. CarlosRodriguez (talk) 20:44, 26 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Erm... just to point out, the earlier reference on this talk page about the photograph of a champion chihuahua is actually in reference to the long haired pictured above. This actually is the top winning champion chihuahua in the world and a seven times breed winner at Crufts, so if you think that is laughabl;e, you obviously don't know your Chihuahuas! Crazy-dancing (talk) 20:58, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Crazy-dancing, I'm talking about the chihuahua that is up there now, it is black and white sitting in some grass. The guy who own the dog claims it is a champien. CarlosRodriguez (talk) 18:06, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Fair enough then, thanks for putting me right on that, sorry. Crazy-dancing (talk) 20:25, 10 August 2008 (UTC)