Talk:Chili con carne/Archive 3

Chili con carne versus chili sin carne
There seems to be an inconsistent usage of the terms here. If the subject is to be about chili, then it should be so named and have sub-sections about the various kinds. If it is to be about chili con carne (chili with meat), then there needs to be a separate article about chile sin carne (chili without meat). It would be wrong to have it both ways. - KitchM (talk) 14:21, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * "Chili" is too ambiguous as a title to be used on its own. Chili peppers often are referred to as just "chilis" in many varieties of English, and other food and products derived from the pepper are also claimants to the name. Indeed chili is a disambiguation page. So the title here, the full name of the dish, is the most appropriate form of natural disambiguation we can possibly have. As for including chili sin carne in this article, it's a relatively minor variant of the meat version, clearly derived from it, and unlikely to have enough to support a standalone article, which is why it is here, alongside other variants of the original. oknazevad (talk) 14:56, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree with the issue about the vegetable, chile. It is confusing.  There is a need for a disambiguation page for that issue, which would solve it, as there can be no natural disambiguation in this case.


 * Also, chili sin carne is not a derivative. I believe your view is based upon a supposition that chili con carne came first.  I would suggest that any chili dish was first used without chilis and then chili was added for flavoring.  Calling any dish after the flavoring is misleading and incorrect.  Therefore, if one wished to be correct about it, one could say that this is a dish that is made from chilis with various added ingredients added. - KitchM (talk) 21:33, 22 May 2017 (UTC)


 * How can you say that a certain name is incorrect? It's just a name, and people have been naming dishes after sole ingredients since the beginning of time, or after anything else they wanted to name it. Hell, the Italians named marinara after those who would be eating it, mariners (sailors.) Chili con carne was the name of the dish made over 150 years ago. It is what people called it and still do, whether or not it is an erroneous name by your, or anyone else's, standards. If you actually took time to read the article, you would know this. It was made with fat, beef, and chili peppers. Names don't always make sense to everyone, just like the term "salsa" for a water and tomato based dip containing peppers and seasonings is probably not quite right since "salsa" literally means sauce. And when you take cheese and add a little bit of "salsa" to it, it is called "salsa con queso." Which means sauce with cheese.


 * As to your assertion that chili sin carne is not a derivative, you couldn't be more wrong. People who want to enjoy the flavor of chili but don't want to eat meat can certainly make it without it, and that is where chili sin carne came from. The article clearly states that it came about in the 60s and 70s with the rise of vegetarianism.


 * Basically this: This page is about a stew that is made from beef and chilis, it's history, and many other facts. Chili is what the dish, and all it's variants, have been called since before you were born. It is why the article is named as it is. Names rarely make sense to everyone, but calling chili "Tex-Mex beef stew flavored with chili peppers and other ingredients" just isn't going to work, and chili is pretty fitting.2601:243:8201:53B0:51FD:D301:5D13:1A12 (talk) 15:59, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

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What controversy over tomatoes?
Section 2.2 states that "Tomatoes are another ingredient on which opinions differ," and gives one example of someone who does include tomatoes, and none to the contrary. To whom is the inclusion of tomatoes controversial? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:AAD0:9960:B060:CA9D:1816:BCCB (talk) 22:58, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

Name simply "chili"?
Is it true that Chili con carne is commonly called simply chili in the USA? Such usage would be highly ambiguous.203.80.61.102 (talk) 01:34, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * It is, and it's not too ambiguous as the fruits are usually called "chili peppers". oknazevad (talk) 04:13, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Chili peppers are often referred to simply as "chilis" in the plural as well. 65.68.190.230 (talk) 22:06, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Not as common in American English, though, which isn't what this discussion is about. oknazevad (talk) 03:36, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

Pronunciation
How about we treat chili con carne as an adopted English-language word, and use American English pronunciation? This is the English-language wikipedia, so we use English-language pronunciation for borrowed words and phrases (for example, "Moscow" and not "Moskva"). We need to replace IPA-es in the pronunciation guide. Jack N. Stock (talk) 20:58, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
 * You are absolutely correct. Plainly, "chili" is an English word, with an English pronunciation. It may have its etymological roots via Spanish, but it is the English word. Heck, it is not a native Spanish word anyway, being taken from Nahuatl. I doubt the Spanish pronunciation is identical to the Nahuatl anyway. Add in the obnoxiousness of claiming Castilian pronunciation rules for a word that is more related to Mexican Spanish is the same as saying that only British Received Pronunciation is the correct way to speak English. Load of bollocks, that. You were right to revert that POV-pushing that was accompanied by base ethnic insults. oknazevad (talk) 00:36, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

History needs work
This article has only a single fluff piece used for the bulk of the history of chili. Using more sources should prompt inclusion of the Texas prison system chili which predated the chili queens. Also oddly the wiki article seems drawn to repeat the error that their only source argues against. That is the notion that chili is Mexican in origin. Other sources cite a Mexican dictionary that defined chili con carne as a vile and foul dish of Americans which would seem to support American rather than Mexican tradition origins. Chili is not found in Mexico except to serve to tourists. In short, peruse the variety of sources rather than one cooking site fluff piece and a much better article should then be possible.104.181.247.245 (talk) 21:55, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Vegetarian
The vegetarian chili redirect connects here but this is not vegetarian FikriyeRıza (talk) 12:14, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
 * There's a section on it in the "Variations" section. The redirect should probably specifically point to that section. oknazevad (talk) 13:37, 12 October 2019 (UTC)