Talk:Chinese Democracy/Archive 3

Release date
Unless I'm missing some info, it seems that the consensus here is leaning toward calling November 25 the release date. Sure there have been official bogus release dates in the past, but that's not really for us to interpret. "TBA" means "To be announced" and if there has been a date announced, even if it is a promise that will soon be broken, I think anyone coming to the Chinese Democracy article is just looking for what the latest flimsy promise anyway. noit (talk) 16:55, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Good point. It would also save us the pain of all these reversions. Dr.K. (talk) 17:00, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Erm.. if you don't like reverting vandalism to the article, apply for page protection. A copious amount of unhelpful edits is not an excuse to put rumours into the article. Nothing has been confirmed in regards to its release date; if people want to find out the "latest flimsy promise," they can go somewhere else, somewhere that doesn't care about accuracy and verifiability. &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 18:44, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


 * If we don't want to put it in the infobox, the 25 November date could possibly be accomodated at Chinese_Democracy where other rumours are also mentioned. Dr.K. (talk) 18:54, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, but everything in the current status section has an official response to it, whereas this is an entirely unsubstantiated rumour. The first paragraph has a response from the band's then manager, Merck Mercuriadis; the last paragraph has a response from Eddie Trunk, who is the only person to have interviewed Axl Rose in the past 8 years and regularly has contact with Ron Thal, and a quote from Axl's assistant/housekeeper. This is just another of literally hundreds of unconfirmed rumours and the only thing that adds fuel to this rumour is the rumour of an exclusive release with Best Buy. &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 16:15, 4 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I see. Let's leave it out then. Dr.K. (talk) 16:23, 4 October 2008 (UTC)


 * You're really going to save yourself a lot of grief by adding somewhere a speculative date section. I would do it, but since you've taken ownership of this page, I'll just wait for you to do it. noit (talk) 22:15, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Hits daily double now says November 23rd giving it a release date to its self and a full 7 days before hitting the charts —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.63.4 (talk) 16:26, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

When it comes to the release of new albums- there is only place that I trust for accuracy of release dates and that's Billboard magazine. I have been into music since I was kid and my tastes vary from Slayer to Garth Brooks. I believe that Guns N' Roses will release the album on November 23. Of course, we all know that release dates are subject to change. Look at the time it took AC/DC to release Black Ice and Metallica's Death Magnetic and everyone seems to forget that it's been over 10 years since we had any new material from Kiss. When Chinese Democracy is released on November 23, all the doubters will be eating crow and Billboard wouldn't print rumors. Chinese Democracy is going to be released because it's time for Axl to put up or shut up. Either he releases album or quits the record business. I'm tired of all the delays. He needs to put out the album already. I just wish it was the Use Your Illusion lineup.

JCHUTTON, Brantford, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.247.183.245 (talk) 22:15, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * None of what you've said has anything to do with the published release date on Wikipedia. It is not a fact that the album is coming out on Nov. 23. It is a fact that Billboard has tentatively hinted that they heard somewhere that that was a date the album may come out. That's the fact that's what's getting published. Why are people so hell bent to present this date as the real, no doubt about it, release date. It has not been confirmed. The sources all say it's not confirmed, and there has been a long history of bogus release dates. Yet some people are still hard about not having the word "unofficial" anywhere near this stupid date. Because Best Buy says so? I was trying to settle the dispute by finding ways to allow this erroneous date at all, but if that's not good enough for you, we'll just go back to "TBA" and fight it out. Please d not remove the word "unofficial again until there is an official announcement from GNR or Geffin. noit (talk) 05:30, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

How can the MTV article be used as a source when it uses language like, "more and more likely", "With the site reporting a firm release date, it seems Chinese Democracy is finally imminent, but without label confirmation, the report could just be the latest in a long string of rumors." and best of all "If the report is true..." noit (talk) 21:19, 11 October 2008 (UTC)


 * You guys are crazy thinking the band is going to announce a released date. Besides, the band should be named Axl Rose and etc. today. Douglasr007 (talk) 20:17, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Why are people so hell bent to present this date as the real no doubt about it release date. It has not been confirmed. The sources all say it's not confirmed. and there has been a long history of bogus release dates. Yet some people are still hard about not having the word "unofficial" anywhere near this stupid date. Because Best Buy says so? I was trying to settle the depute by finding ways to allow this erroneous date at all, but if that's not good enough for you, we'll just go back to "TBA" and fight it out. noit (talk) 05:30, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree. The phrasing in all of these sources is not conclusive beyond a reasonable doubt. So until we hear it from the horse's mouth it is prudent to label the release date as unofficial. I can't see the reason why Geffen wouldn't want to announce their alleged deal with Best Buy and contribute to the excitement by officially confirming the deal and the date. Until then it is reasonable to tag the release date as at least unofficial otherwise, as Noit mentioned above, we can mislead people into believing that the date is officially confirmed and we wouldn't want to do that, right? Best Buy, like it or not, are not the official spokespeople for either Gn'R or Geffen. Dr.K. (talk) 07:25, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Has an official source announced a release date for this album yet, or is it to be announced soon? Just wondering. &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 09:05, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * This is the mother of all "to be announced soon" sagas. Dr.K. (talk) 17:54, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

An article was released today on RollingStone.com stating that November 23 is the release date, unlike many other sources claiming that November 23 is the rumored date that it is likely to come out on. Fezmar9 (talk) 18:13, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Is it a coincidence that the link does not work? Dr.K. (talk) 20:23, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hm, that is interesting. Here is were I originally saw the information, and they were citing a specific RollingStone article. The link does not work there either. Also I tried searching on RollingStone for the article, and cannot find it. A retracted statement maybe? I don't know why it's gone, but it certainly was there earlier. Fezmar9 (talk) 20:34, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The Rolling Stone article was taken down about an hour after its publication. Since it was removed, we can't really cite it as a source until it's posted to the Rolling Stone website once again (which it probably will be). Here's the entire article if anyone wants to read it:

Guns N’ Roses Album Finally Arrives, Set For November 23rd

It’s a day many Guns N’ Roses fans thought would never come: Chinese Democracy, the album Axl Rose has labored over for more than a decade, will finally hit stores on Sunday, November 23rd (a departure from the normal Tuesday record release day). The album will be sold exclusively in Best Buy stores and online at Bestbuy.com and iTunes. A music video is in the works, and the band — in which Rose is the only remaining original member — is expected to tour in 2009, according to a source close to G N’ R. “The music is well worth waiting for,” says Gary Arnold, senior entertainment officer for Best Buy, which began negotiating the deal in 2007. “We’ve all heard the stories about this album, and now everybody gets to hear that it’s real.” The album’s 14 songs include the poppy “Better,” the industrial rocker “Shackler’s Revenge” (featured in the new Rock Band 2), the power ballad “If the World” (which plays in the new film Body of Lies), the anthemic title track and a song called “Scraped” that was previously unknown to fans. “It’s going to be a great rock Christmas,” Arnold says. “I just hope it doesn’t take 14 years for the next one.” Bestbuy.com has a listings page up that isn’t taking pre-orders yet but does suggest that there will be several different versions of the album available (or at least a few different covers). &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 20:46, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Links that don't work anymore, retracted articles. What next? This is like a movie. Dr.K. (talk) 21:01, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Best Buy now has a pre-order page up here. Release date is Nov 25th. Froo (talk) 00:17, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * As soon as I was asking what next. I simply can't believe it. Great find. I think this is the smoke. Now let's wait for the fire. Dr.K. (talk) 01:12, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

I think we have alot of things that need to be edited like pronto like we now have a tracklisting the fact it will have three covers AND the release date http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9111016&st=guns+n+roses+chinese+democracy&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1925065 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.56.93 (talk) 12:40, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh ye of little faith. I have faith that the album will be released on November 23. The official track listing has been announced. There are 14 tracks on the album. The fact that there is a Guns N' Roses song, "Shackler's Revenge" and the fact that Billboard, which is the music industry's most trusted magazine. I know release dates are subject to change. The album will be released on November 23, 2008 and all the doubters will be eating crow. The album will be released on November 23, 2008 and there is no dispute about it. If I am right about the album being released on November 23, an apology is in order.

Jason Hutton, October 16, 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.247.183.245 (talk) 22:06, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you're missing the point of this discussion. It has nothing to do with one's own opinion regarding the release date; it's about the verifiability of sources. &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 15:24, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Story link: http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2008/10/17/with-best-buy-deal-in-place-guns-n-roses-album-finally-arrives —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.30.190.142 (talk) 16:38, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

I have my doubts that it will actually be released on November 23, 2008. I'll admit that I have the "I'll believe when I see it attitude". The fact that the album is a Best Buy exclusive makes me wonder if the album is the masterpiece that Axl wants us to believe that it is. I hope the album is finally released on November 23 because Axl needs to stop talking about it and actually release the album. I have to wonder if Geffen will actually get the money back that it cost to make this trouble-plagued album. It is the album that I want more than any other album. Was it worth the wait and the countless lineup changes?

geffen will be making all its money back through sales and the best buy exclusive has guaranteed it buy buyinga certain amount of copies giving them everything they paid into it plus money from sales —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.159.58.84 (talk) 04:40, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

JCHUTTON, OCTOBER 17. 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.247.183.245 (talk) 19:14, 17 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Our local portland rock station KUFO confirmed the date as well and also said that in addition to the album cover displayed on best buys website, there will also be a vinyl version and 2 alternate covers... i think that sounds real enough to not be made up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.22.69.37 (talk) 19:57, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

If the album is going to be released on November 23, 2008, why is there no single to promote the album? Why is there no music video to promote the album? Shackler's Revenge is included in Rock Band 2, but that's not the official single from the album is? I know I.R.S was a TOP 50 hit on a rock station as an internet leak and Better was featured in a Harley-Davidson commercial that was subsequently pulled. I want this album- but I have wonder if I will actually get it- because nothing has been said about a Canadian release. I have to wonder if this album will be brilliant or a bomb? Time will tell if the album actually gets released on November 23, 2008. I'd still like to hear a single from the album or a music video.

Jason Hutton, Brantford, October 20, 2008. 3:27 PM EST. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.247.183.245 (talk) 19:24, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

hey jason just cuz your a canadian as well i suggest you go to your local best buy and have them search chinese democracy in their system, not their website, and it will come up and say its being released november 23rd :D cheers, Tyson Lee from Saint Catharines —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.68.36.199 (talk) 16:55, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Try and stay on topic, please. Wikipedia is not a forum. &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 17:32, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

There's now a confirmed single from the album, the title track "Chinese Democracy", which will recieve airplay as of 6am Eastern Time on October 22nd, and will be released on October 27th —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.100.181.39 (talk) 01:08, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

will this album be sold only at bestbuy or can it also be purchased on itunes when it comes out?

Can someone who has edit permission on the page please change the Canadian release information? The article's first paragraph incorrectly states that the album will only be available through Best Buy in Canada. In fact, the Best Buy exclusive is ONLY for the United States. In every other market on Earth, including Canada, it will be available at all retailers. Note second paragraph here: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081022/entertainment/music_guns_n__roses Thanks! (Oh and full disclosure, I work for the label) Lungflook (talk) 15:06, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

According to Sanity, Chinese Democracy shall be released November 22 in Australia. Link: http://www.sanity.com.au/product/product.asp?sku=2117963 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noskap (talk • contribs) 12:19, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Travelling Tragition
Since Travelling Tragition's has taken full ownership of this article and will be reverting all edits back to his own last contribution, I suggest that we all just leave it up to him to decide what is best for everybody. Please do not edit this article unless you want to enter into a revert war with him. noit (talk) 17:13, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I would suggest both individuals stop edit warring and come to a consensus before making any additional edits and reverts. This also may be an instance where you might want to involve a mediator. See WP:MEDCAB -- Quar te t  18:06, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

If the travtrag is reading this I would suggest that he edits the 'ecstatic' word describing how the new york audience reacted to his performance at the mtv movie awards 2002. that is incredibly biased. i'm sure someone else will eventually edit it if it isn't done properly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.191.120.158 (talk) 11:51, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Track list
Gnrdaily.com posted today that best buy released the set track list for chinese democracy, and it goes as follows:

01. Chinese Democracy 02. Scraped 03. Shackler's Revenge 04. Street Of Dreams 05. If The World 06. Better 07. This I Love 08. There Was A Time 09. Riad N' The Bedovins 10. Sorry 11. I.R.S. 12. Catcher 13. Madagascar 14. Prostitute

that was as of october 16, 2008, and here is a link to the artical i got this from: http://www.gnrdaily.com/news_detail.asp?id=1655 ```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuck19841 (talk • contribs) 01:58, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Why isn't the track list updated to show the songs claimed by BestBuy included? Even if not quite as certain as the list of songs we have, shouldn't it at least be shown as a possibility? I mean, we cite BestBuy elsewhere, why not trust them on this? 62.50.170.14 (talk) 14:16, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, Best Buy isn't cited anywhere in the article, and -- in both my opinion and according to previous consensus -- we shouldn't use it. In the past, we haven't used Amazon, Play, etc. as sources since the consensus is that online retailers fail WP:V. There has been no announcement of a track listing, and I don't think we should change that section until there is one. &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 14:57, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but since Best Buy is offering the album exclusively, wouldn't they be more of a verifiable source in this particular situation? (Drlecter491 (talk) 17:53, 16 October 2008 (UTC))
 * Perhaps, but I don't think we should cite this, with no announcement by Guns N' Roses or any verifiable news organisation in regards to a track list. This kind of thing generally isn't a reliable source, especially since the track list was just added to Best Buy's site with no other details or confirmation from Best Buy on the album's exclusivity, etc. &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 18:17, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The tracklist has been revealed and so has the cover. http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/news/146566-guns-n-roses-democracy-cover-tracklist-revealed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.81.79.235 (talk) 18:44, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That report's source is the Best Buy page whose verifiability is what we're discussing here. &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 18:49, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Would it not be worthy information to note that Best Buy has put up a release date, along with track information, although mentioning that nothing official has been said by the media or the band? This album has been 13 years in the making. A placeholder on Best Buy's website with cover art and a track listing are pretty big news (in my opinion).(Drlecter491 (talk) 21:44, 16 October 2008 (UTC))

I don't like using this as a source since there was no article or press release by Best Buy or the band about the track listing, album art, etc. Although I personally think this is the correct track listing, I don't think this source satisfies WP:V and we should leave the section as is. &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 15:24, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * How about this? Since the current track listing table uses official sources -- Axl Rose, press releases, etc. -- I think it would be inconsistent to add Best Buy's track listing to the article. &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 16:55, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * that is the tracklist —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.159.58.84 (talk) 04:42, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure that's realiable. They're releasing it exclusively through bestbuy. Why would best buy purposely post false info? - -The Spooky One (talk to me) 23:10, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * No one said anything about Best Buy "purposely post[ing] false info." Best Buy's online store – like Amazon, HMV, et al – doesn't meet WP:V, so it shouldn't be used as a source. &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 15:22, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

so can we please make the tracklisting this :1. Chinese Democracy, 2. Shackler's Revenge, 3. Better, 4. Street Of Dreams, 5. If The World, 6. There Was A Time, 7. Catcher N' The Rye, 8. Scraped, 9. Riad N' The Bedouins, 10. Sorry, 11. I.R.S., 12. Madagascar, 13. This I Love, 14. Prostitute, seeing as best buy has officially made the album for preorder and this is stil the tracklist? it seems very silly keeping the leak table as the tracklist and not having some of the confirmed songs we should make this page have the track listing now for real. Tyson Lee —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.159.57.204 (talk) 15:23, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

just another thing to add its also on the geffen site for the release http://www.geffen.com/artist/releases/default.aspx/pid/2691 Tyson Lee —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.159.57.204 (talk) 16:15, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I put up the tracklisting; I'm 100 percent sure best buy would be a reliable souce.. SINCE THEY ARE THE ONES SELLING IT. The Geffen website lists the tracklisting as pointed out by the person above. - -The Spooky One (talk to me) 01:44, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Whatever. An online store isn't a reliable source; Geffen is, however. &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 11:06, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't we have a section on songs that were recorded during the album but aren't making it to the final record? - -The Spooky One (talk to me) 19:32, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * And also, we should probally have the genre as Hard Rock. GN'R is a hard rock band, after all. - -The Spooky One (talk to me) 19:41, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Why? This article is about Chinese Democracy, not songs that aren't on it. Besides, there are supposedly hundreds of songs that have been worked on for this album, and given that this article is already longer than most album articles -- and it hasn't even been released yet -- I don't see any point in filling it with crufty, irrelevant references to other songs.


 * Chinese Democracy make it very clear that this is a departure from the band's original sound. Making hard rock at one point in time doesn't mean their future albums will have the same style. Since it hasn't been released yet, and there are no sources to use for the album's genre, we should keep it as simple as possible. &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 21:03, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Isn't it confirmed that Rose, Buckethead and Costanzo are the writers/composers for the song Scraped it is on the BMI repertoire site listed as Lies They Tell? (82.5.59.155 (talk) 21:03, 25 October 2008 (UTC))

Music videos
No upcoming music videos for the album? --Crackthewhip775 (talk) 19:53, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * According to rolling stone there is a music video in the works right now. And shouldnt we post that promo videos were taken from popflashproductions containing clips from one possibly two new songs? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.68.36.199 (talk) 15:59, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

History split
Does anyone else think that History of Chinese Democracy should have its own article? It would shrink the main article down a bit (which it definitely needs). StevePrutz (talk) 16:58, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The entire history and touring section and a lot of stuff from the current status section could be put into a 'History of Chinese Democracy' article, and we could replace it with just a few paragraphs for the main article. I'm definitely in favour of this idea. I think that, once the album is released, we'll struggle to keep a balance between pre- and post-release text, and this idea would certainly make it a lot easier to do this without deleting a lot of good information and making the article far too long. &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 18:09, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I Agree. A split would work well. - -The Spooky One (talk to me) 20:25, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
 * OK. Should the other sections (like Leaks) go in there, too? StevePrutz (talk) 03:10, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I think most of the History and nearly all of the leaks section could be split into a new article. - -The Spooky One (talk to me) 03:31, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll start on it tomorrow. StevePrutz (talk) 03:41, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * If you need any help; just holler at me. - -The Spooky One (talk to me) 03:51, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * If anyone can help trim the current main article of some overdetailed sentences, and move them to History, that would help a lot. I am still cleaning up some refs, but most of the hard stuff is done. StevePrutz (talk) 17:03, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm planning on putting creating a 30 second sample of "Chinese Democracy" to be used in this article, if that helps any. - -The Spooky One (talk to me) 22:34, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Can the RfC be removed now? It appears to be resolved. &mdash;MDCollins 23:22, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Recording for Chinese Democracy...
This did not start in 1994, as this article currently states. The album (or rather just a set of songs, really) they had begun to work on was not part of the Chinese Democracy project, and the work they'd done was incomplete. Chinese Democracy as an album/project began in 1998/1999. I'd edit the article, but it seems I can't. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Classic Case (talk • contribs) 11:58, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Sources say 1994. find more sources that are more reliable that say 1998 and we'll do it. - -The Spooky One (talk to me) 20:25, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


 * There are sources that say Chinese Democracy (specifically) began its recording in 1994? That sounds interesting, never read that, can you give me a link or something? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Classic Case (talk • contribs) 00:42, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Technically, anything Axl wrote after Slash and all them left the band constitutes as Chinese Democracy material, wether it made the album or not. because it was after Use your illusion, the next album is C.D. - -The Spooky One (talk to me) 03:36, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


 * No, sorry, it just doesn't work like that. Chinese Democracy as a project/album began in the late 90s. To say that it began in 1994 is factually inaccurate because they hadn't been writing or recording for the sake of that album. Sorry, needs to be changed. Classic Case (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 10:20, 29 October 2008 (UTC).


 * Any sources? I think you're right that 98/99 was the time when they came up with the album title, remember reading somewhere the title track was written around that time (so prolly wouldn't have had that title before then). But just because the album didn't have a title, or had a different working title, from 94 to 98/99 doesn't mean it's a whole other project??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.107.24.213 (talk) 11:21, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I understand what you're saying, but the statement "Recording for Chinese Democracy began in 1994" is just incorrect and shouldn't be there. Nowhere has any band member said "we began recording for Chinese Democracy in 94". It's misleading and just not true. The name Chinese Democracy was never applied to that lineup or that time - to have it in the article is very misleading.
 * What would be more appropriate (in my opinion) would be to alter the Date recorded line to "1998-2007", and the article should read something along the lines of "The band began writing and recording writing and recording new music in 1994". Or the entire section talking about Slash and Duff recording/complaining about Axl etc should be removed. I think a distinction must be made between the old lineup's recording of music and the Chinese Democracy album/project that began with a different lineup at a later date because such a distinction exists.
 * I also think its important that Axl himself considers that music/those recordings to be a seperate album or project. Read this article: http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=82


 * Axl says:


 *  I don’t know if I would have wanted to even do a world tour at the time but I wanted to put that record together and could we have done it? Yes. It’s not something I would want to approach (without Slash) because at the time there was only one person that I knew who could do certain riffs that way. We still needed the collaboration of the band as a whole to write the best songs. Since none of that happened, that’s the reason why that material got scrapped. 


 * It is therefore clear that the 2 seperate projects should not be considered one and as such recording for Chinese Democracy did not begin in 1994. Classic Case (talk) 11:47, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * This has been discusses many, many times before, and the consensus is always that the correct year is 1994, as The New York Times says. &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 15:06, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The New Yorker also incorrectly assumes that any music made was part of the Chinese Democracy project. As I've shown (and you ignored) this is not the case. Classic Case (talk) 15:32, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I would again like to add that I think - since we are obviously not in agreement about the wording of the sentence and the factual accuracy of what it means - it would be best if the statement reads "Guns N' Roses began writing and recording new material in 1994", so as to stop this spilling over into an unproductive argument and (in a sense) both parties are right and the statement doesn't conflict with what either of us is saying. Classic Case (talk) 17:32, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


 * People should understand the difference between "working on" (writing, discussing etc.) and actually "recording" - but also "recording" could mean recording ideas not really songs ending on an album. --Say Headcheese!-- hexa Chord 2  06:31, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

when it is eligible for chart appearance
Note: anyone taking offense at my using this place to ask a question, should rather be flattered, since I'm doing it out of the serious belief that the best minds of the internet concerning matters of CD <are assembled here. Also, this is in a way relevant to the article, since it relates to the (near) future of the album. What I wanted to ask is that, when it says in the Billboard article about the 23 nov release date that: "As such, "Chinese Democracy" would not be eligible to chart on The Billboard 200 until the week of Dec. 1, according to Nielsen SoundScan". Obviously, this means that if they had wanted CD to follow billboards way of calculating - and still wanted to hit the charts at Dec 1, they'd have chosen Tuesday the 25th ("rather than the usual Tuesday"). I'm not really sure about whether I'm really correct on this, as I'm not American and therefor not used to your system, but fundamentally the point is that:
 * Because of its odd release date, there goes more than a week before CD is eligible to chart. What I want to ask is: which of the following two scenarios then apply:


 * A) CD has the extra couple of days + the usual week to gather the sales that will place it upon the chart. By my - admittedly uncertain - calculation above, that means the 'week' starting the 25th PLUS the 23th and 24th. That is, in conclusion: CD will have two more days than any of its competitors in which to gather sales and this will then obviously strengthen its arrival on the charts


 * B) the two days (I calculated it to 2, as I said, I'm not sure that's right, but the number really doesn't matter) BEFORE the week that is eligible for charting the 1st, DON'T COUNT AT ALL, seeing as they belong to the earlier week - where CD isn't eligible to chart, as it arrives too late - and not to the first week in which CD IS eligible to chart. Therefore the extra couple of days - the first days of release even, where we must suspect that the sales are strongest, will not be counted ANYWHERE and this will severely limit CD's chances on the chart

Sorry for the novel-size essay, but I'm not particularly fluent at English, so thought it better to describe my question at full length instead of just quickly putting it out and risking misinterpretation. Anybody has the answer? Thanks very much in anticipation :)62.107.24.213 (talk) 10:28, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

default "chinese democracy" page
Just noticed the search string 'chinese democracy' goes to the 'chinese democracy movement' page rather than here. Would it make sense for this to be the default page as the album is about to be released, and the other is a different string of text anyway? 58.165.62.172 (talk) 02:00, 30 October 2008 (UTC)Jamie
 * fixed. - -The Spooky One (talk to me) 02:13, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Leaked CD Booklet
Why nothing about the leaked CD Booklet? Scraped, This I Love, Sorry and the new Catcher in the Rye have also partially leaked. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.235.195.60 (talk) 20:14, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Semi-Protection
So if this article is semi-protected, why can it be edited by IPs all the time? --Say Headcheese!-- hexa Chord 2  16:15, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, saw it: expired on 11/9 --Say Headcheese!-- hexa Chord 2  16:21, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This needs to be protected until the end of Nov. StevePrutz (talk) 16:36, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Best would be for the next two or three months, way after the release and the holidays. --Say Headcheese!-- hexa Chord 2  18:53, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Rolling Stone Album Review
Rollingstone.com review the album. And luckily it was worth the 17 year wait :) heres the link if anyone wants to make an article:

http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/album/24024297/review/24161281/chinese_democracy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.237.175.111 (talk) 08:22, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The rolling stone review is linked in the article already. - -' The Spook (TALK) (Share the Love with Barnstars) 18:12, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Second single?
The radio station Q 104.3 in New York just added the track "Better" to their website and other radio stations are claiming they're going to start playing it at 11 AM this morning. http://www.q1043.com/pages/news/gunsnroses/better.html Sadistik (talk) 09:55, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * RS pretty much confirms it: http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2008/11/17/a-look-back-at-1991-as-new-guns-n-roses-single-better-premieres/ StevePrutz (talk) 21:38, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

The best track on the album is "Prostitute", it will probably end up as the most demanded single.

Chinese Democracy linking to the movement on search
Who keeps changing this? No one cares about the movement when this album is about to drop! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.235.195.60 (talk) 21:27, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, lower-case redirects generally go to the article which it's close to (i.e., 'Chinese democracy' will go to 'Chinese democracy movement,' whereas 'Chinese Democracy' will come here.) &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 22:31, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

But honestly, I don't think people upper case items they are searching for in most cases, I am sure many would agree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.235.195.60 (talk) 02:25, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

The best Track on the album is "Prostitute", it will probably end up as the most demanded single. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.50.74.47 (talk) 09:28, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Trilogy?
Baz didn't say that Chinese Democracy was the first of a trilogy of albums. He said that the general was part of a lyrical trilogy of songs, and that there was more in the region of 4 albums. he don't know anything abou these albums, they may be songs he doesn't want to release or anything, but their is no souce whatsoever for saying that CD is the first of a trilogy of albums. Here's the citation you linked to verify the comment in the article: http://aycu35.webshots.com/image/32634/2005390166215235814_rs.jpg From what I can gather from it, it backs up what I've just said, unless I've missed something. Have I? Casino321 (talk) 15:56, 18 November 2008 (UTC) its not a trilogy! its two albums. axl said it on the 1st or 2nd online chat. he said something like "we've recorded music for chinese and its follow up." he said in 06 that they had 32 songs. im guessing the next album will have 18. also, in the spinner interview, he said they didnt have 4 albums and baz was wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rocknroll47 (talk • contribs) 18:14, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Add Billboard Review
Since the page is protected would some of its protectors add Billboards (favourable) review: http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/reviews/album_review_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003892755 thx 62.107.24.213 (talk) 21:11, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

There will be a Follow-Up to Chinese Democracy, Axl himself said that he thoughts of Chinese Democracy as a "Double". This is as close to Official Confirmation as we'll get from Axl. It is a double, this implies that for the past 15 years or so, they have been working on more than just 14 songs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.50.74.47 (talk) 09:23, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Onethirtybpm review
The fledgling music review site onethirtybpm.com has reviewed the album and given it a very favorable 4/5 review. The review has been noted by fans on various Guns N' Roses web forums as one of the best-written reviews so far of the album, and therefore it should be added to the reviews section for the article. The review can be viewed here:

http://onethirtybpm.com/2008/11/18/guns-n-roses-chinese-democracy/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seanhighkin (talk • contribs) 09:03, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree, it's not crap, it's a real review, should be added 62.107.24.213 (talk) 14:25, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


 * It's a decent review/history lesson, but once the album drops everyone and their mother will have a lengthy review, and there isn't enough room for everyone. StevePrutz (talk) 15:03, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Other Reviews
Being from BBC and The Sun, these reviews are obviously notable enough to warrant adding them

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/release/pdjw/ http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/article1933110.ece —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.107.24.213 (talk) 14:48, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * My recommendation is to only list the reviews by notable, music-specific magazines and websites. StevePrutz (talk) 15:05, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's a list of acceptable review sites. &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 18:17, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I put a html comment about acceptable review sites (thanks Funeral). Also note I think the A.V. Club review should stay (even though its not on the list), because its by Klosterman. StevePrutz (talk) 20:59, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Entertainment Weekly review: B- http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20241280,00.html Jlnfrtn (talk) 01:47, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I see Billboard on that list. Will the Billboard review, I linked above, be added then? Thx (btw, I see your point in regards to other reviews, cheers for the good job on the article so far)62.107.24.213 (talk) 10:35, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Chart/Reviews
I've got two things. Since I can't edit the article I was wondering if someone can add in the Australia ARIA charting into the main Chinese Democracy article, it's bugging me, where the other three chart performances are. And underneath where it says the first single was released on October 22, in the Current Status section, can someone add info on when the leaks on the band's MySpace page came out and info on when Better was released (Nov. 17).

Also, I notice all of the discussions about reviews on here, but none are on the album's page itself. You guys should make a section for "Reception" and post excerps from the reviews.

One final thing, can you guys get rid of SPIN's rating, the review itself is a joke. They give NO info on the album, took some cracks at Bush, told us of our obvious Economic position, and that was it. It is a joke review and does not belong on that. Read it for yourselves, it's the worst review ever written by mankind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KILLER BOB11694 (talk • contribs) 02:06, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

The Observer review is 53 words long, not really a real review and should probably be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.45.127.144 (talk) 06:58, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, without wanting to sound annoyed or whining (cos' I'm not), some of the reviews that I suggested but which were turned down, were more professional than the Observers (obviously, since it isn't really a review). No blame to whoever added it, but it would make the most sense to have it removed, since its really more a "review" of Axl Rose than of the album and not even a particularly serious one at that 62.107.24.213 (talk) 10:40, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

So if we're saying that the observer should not be in here, then why the hell is it still here? Somebody delete the review then. Neverfades (talk) 19:31, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Don't know if I'll get in trouble for it, but I definitely removed that lame Observer review. I'll wait for a call on SPIN's... I just feel the review is from someone who has never heard the album and is judging it on the two singles, gave no details on any other songs. Also, anyone think there's too many reviews? All other albums I've seen have about 1-4, this one has like 7. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KILLER BOB11694 (talk • contribs) 20:12, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

No. Whenever an album comes out there's usually like 10 reviews or something...This actually happens with anything; albums, movies, books, etc. Although soon usually what happens is they edit the reviews down to like 4 or so. Neverfades (talk) 20:41, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I remember Black Ice was like that as well. 15 reviews and oh my god (no pun intended towards lost gnr track). It's better to edit them down slowly (like with removing the Observer)62.107.24.213 (talk) 12:38, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Stores breaking dates
OK here's the deal, i went to Sanity today (a music store) and in my hot little hands right now I have a copy of Chinese Democracy. Apparently according to the shopkeeper it came out a few days ago. Here's some pictures: Picture of the cd in its case, with the booklet beside it: http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e161/TheSolidSnake12/100_0621.jpg Middle page of the booklet: http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e161/TheSolidSnake12/100_0622.jpg Sorry's lyrics page: http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e161/TheSolidSnake12/100_0623.jpg The back of the Cd case: http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e161/TheSolidSnake12/100_0624-1.jpg

Your thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noskap (talk • contribs) 07:11, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank god Axl didn't skimp on a lyrics booklet. StevePrutz (talk) 14:49, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You won't be thinking that when you see all the mistakes and typos in the booklet. ;-) &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 20:25, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Doh! StevePrutz (talk) 21:01, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree, He left out the last minute of Chinese Democracy's (song) lyrics. Oh well. Im happy It finally came out at least ;D

It should be noted that Robin Finck and Brain are no longer members of Guns N' Roses,they are not even listed on the Guns N' Roses official website or the official Guns N' Roses MySpace page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hollywood Vampire (talk • contribs) 01:02, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * If you wanna have a discussion with the self acclaimed owner of all GnR related articles, please go here. Please read this first or do a little research on the history of some articles. --Say Headcheese!-- hexa Chord 2  06:35, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Chuck Klosterman's review
Is Chuck Klosterman a notable critic? He certainly does have an article on Wikipedia.

here's his A- review on it: http://www.avclub.com/content/feature/chuck_klosterman_reviews

Anyway I say yes, as we like to include Robert Christgau's reviews on here.

Neverfades (talk) 20:43, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I say 'yes', too (see Other Reviews thread above). StevePrutz (talk) 21:01, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay well can somebody please include him in? Neverfades (talk) 00:22, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * His review is already in the article... &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 00:28, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Sunday update work
When the album officially releases, there are some major things to be updated, such as: Feel free to strikethrough pieces that are done. StevePrutz (talk) 04:04, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * change tense (will be to is)
 * update Production section with liner notes
 * update Sound section
 * correct Personnel and writing credits using liner notes
 * create Reception section with quotations

Canoe.ca review
Hey, just a head's up that Canoe.ca's review of the record has been published online. URL: http://jam.canoe.ca/Music/Artists/G/Guns_N_Roses/AlbumReviews/2008/11/20/7476436-sun.html

Canoe.ca is listed under Wikipedia's accepted review sites and Darryl Sterdan is the top music critic for the Sun Media group in Canada. Definately seems fit to include in this article Thanks. Gettheshade (talk) 12:14, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

As well, Allmusic's review has been published under GNR'S discography page (as opposed to just their site's blog). A rating (4/5) has also been assigned. URL: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:kcftxzwkldje. Gettheshade (talk) 12:22, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Individual song descriptions
I think we should include a short paragraph about the songs with no articles on this page. These songs have been around since the 90s and I believe they each merit their own section. Superior1 (talk) 01:18, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree. There's so much background info on all of these songs. From being in movies to sounds to extra musicians that were supposed to be/are featured on the song. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KILLER BOB11694 (talk • contribs) 02:46, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah it would be interesting to know a little about them. I'd love to know if "This I Love" is in any way connected with the trio of "Don't Cry", "November Rain" and "Estranged". It was written back in 1994 afterall —Preceding unsigned comment added by Discoh8er (talk • contribs) 22:40, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Track Listing
"Riad n' The Bedouims" should read "Riad N' The Bedouins" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mdg629 (talk • contribs) 02:15, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Dr. Pepper
The free Dr. Pepper deal doesn't even mention Chinese Democracy on their page for some reason...and I think it should also be mentioned how their servers are unable to handle the volume of traffic attempting to get their free Dr. Pepper. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.235.195.60 (talk) 03:30, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

They have extended the deal to 6PM Monday. They had no idea so many people would register...nice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.235.195.60 (talk) 11:52, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The Dr Pepper thing was nothing more than worthless trivia in the first place, we certainly don't need to mention something as unimportant as its website isn't working at the moment. &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 13:23, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well it was worth a free drink at least. That the company wanted to prevent too much free drinks by only allowing people to register on Sunday what had to slow down the website loading is another thing... --Say Headcheese!-- hexa Chord 2  21:08, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Apparently Axl Rose and his lawyer are upset about Dr. Pepper:

source billboard:

Guns N' Roses’ Lawyer Blasts Dr Pepper November 26, 2008 - Legal and Management | Digital and Mobile | Rock and Pop

By Andre Paine, London

Guns N' Roses' and Axl Rose's lawyer has castigated Dr Pepper, accusing the soda maker of failing to deliver on its "Chinese Democracy" (Black Frog/Geffen) free soda promotion, which the band was never involved in.

Beverly Hills-based Alan Gutman has written to Dr Pepper Snapple Group Inc. president and CEO Larry Young, accusing the company of operating an online redemption scheme that was an "unmitigated disaster which defrauded customers." Gutman is demanding that Dr Pepper makes good on its offer by extending the period for the offer; he also wants full-page apologies in The New York Times, Los Angeles Times, USA Today and The Wall Street Journal.

Gutman's letter makes clear his view that the original campaign was an "exploitation of my clients' legendary reputation and their eagerly awaited album" and "brazenly violated our clients' rights." He is also seeking an "appropriate payment... for the unauthorized use and abuse of their publicity and intellectual property rights," with the threat of further action if an acceptable offer is not made.

"Now is the time to clean up the mess," says Gutman.

Rose did not take any action when, in March, Dr Pepper put out a press release offering free soda to any American if the long-awaited Guns N' Roses album came out before the end of 2008. However, Rose has reacted to the news that fans have been unable to get their soda following the Nov. 23 release of "Chinese Democracy."

Dr Pepper's Web servers crashed under the demand for coupons that could be exchanged for free drinks. Dr Pepper extended the Nov. 23 promotion for an extra day, but the company's Web site was inaccessible for a substantial part of it.

"Dr Pepper was completely unprepared for the traffic to its site," says Gutman in the letter, describing the promotion as a "complete fiasco."

Gutman adds: "The entire point of your campaign has been to use public interest in Axl Rose and Guns N' Roses as a lure to increase consumer awareness of Dr Pepper." He further states that "mocking undertones" in the online promotional content represent a "raw and damaging commercial exploitation of our clients' rights," adding that the association is "even more damaging in light of your shoddy execution of your disingenuous giveaway offer."

The soda maker declined to comment. Dr Pepper was considering extending the promotion, according to a source close to the situation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.235.223.249 (talk) 20:38, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

mentioned
shouldn't be mentioned in personnel section Axl plays guitar on a couple tracks... It says that inthe booklet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Something Aweful (talk • contribs) 19:55, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

I added it in, the book says he plays guitar on "There Was A Time" and "Madagascar"

two A- reviews
What he hell happened to those? Put the back in please. Neverfades (talk) 07:11, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree. Yes, there were too many reviews before, but the Klosterman in AVclub (or whatever the name was) should be one of those that stayed. The PopMatters one is far less informative than Klostermans.

I also enjoyed the ChartAttack one. I know the site may not be huge enough for the review to stay, but if it's possible, I'd like that review to stay here as well. cheers 62.107.24.213 (talk) 11:56, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

A new very interesting article about the recent banning in China
Here let's include some of this new information in it's section people:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7747815.stm

Neverfades (talk) 19:42, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

NME Review
Surly NME is one of the most popular music magzines, right?

They gave 4/10 to Chinese Democracy although the review is not on their website, it's on the issue of 19/11/2008. I think NME review score should be added. -- Rogscorp (talk) 02:33, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Album promotion
Does the band have any plans at all to promote this album? I've heard of no music videos, televised performances, upcoming tour dates, etc.? And why do they insist on releasing it exclusively through Best Buy? --Crackthewhip775 (talk) 02:32, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I've seen a lot of promotion in my Rainbow Six Vegas 2 game. In the game there are billboards and posters in the mall advertising the album, no lie.

First time Chinese Democracy was named?
This article is missing a big piece of information: when did the album title first appear? 12.30.190.142 (talk) 01:21, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Is that really a "big piece of information"? Andre666 (talk) 10:16, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Not really a "big piece of information", but it's definately relevant! Lies5150 (talk) 22:41, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Experimental rock?
Hard rock, I think, is the main genre to bring up about the album; but I also think maybe experimental rock should appear to. Reasons?
 * It has been made after a massive historical change (Slash et al. leaving);
 * It has been made over a prolonged period of time;
 * It features a mass of different lineups; and
 * It is experimental! (This one is just joshing.)

So yeah, why not? I feel this album is somewhat experimental, in the literal sense. As are the compositions, too, I feel. Opinions? Andre666 (talk) 10:16, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * No sources have called it experimental rock, so no. Because... it, well, isn't experimental. Besides, taking a long time to make and having lots of line-up changes doesn't make something experimental... &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 13:40, 29 November 2008 (UTC)


 * There is nothing about this album that coincides with Experimental Rock. Well, there's one thing; much of the genre of Experimental Rock does suck... Unless this is a larger style of Experimental Rock as yet unknown, where the artist is running an experiment to see just how much crap the public will buy. Okay, personal feelings aside, making an album over the course of 15 years isn't an experiment, and driving members away isn't experimental... Sonic Youth, Radiohead, Butthole Surfers, Xiu Xiu, Jay Reatard and so many others could be considered Experimental because they take chances and try something new in the hopes of creating something, where I say that there were zero chances taken here. -- Xinit (talk) 15:06, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I stand by my point, but fair enough; thanks for the opinions :) Andre666 (talk) 18:28, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Disappearance article.
The article seems like some sort of tabloid newspapaer. It seems to hold no merit at all. The other articles that are linked to the article are silly, nonsense, and so incredibly stupid. Use this article if you want, but it seems like a bunch of crap if you ask me. It may be from a reliable, good site, but from what I just saw it's quite a ridiculous site.
 * It is from The Sun, a crappy tabloid paper. It is, however, reliable, I think,so I don't think it should be removed. I agree with you, though. Andre666 (talk) 06:41, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think we should remove that section, to be honest. It's all rumours; if it turns out to be true, we can integrate it into a section about its reception, since its poor sales are being blamed on his supposed disappearance -- it doesn't warrant its own section at all. &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 16:53, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it is notable that this "truly epic project" and "best album of the decade" does not have any promotion at all - be it concerts, interviews, video clips or a well designed and informative website. I think it is notable that His Imperial Strangeness has not shown up for months. Isn't he a stage hawk? We even argue - for about four weeks now! - whether Finck and Mantia are in or not. --Say Headcheese!- hexa Chord 2  23:08, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

US Chart Position
I clicked on the link and it says David Cook's album is at #3, it isn't on there anywhere, does the actual magazine get distributed before the website updates?

No, the album hit #3 last week. I hate to tell you this, but the album dropped all the way to #18 as of right now. This should be included on the main page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.205.226.82 (talk) 17:27, 14 December 2008 (UTC) not to long ago the album finally made it past the million mark. i'd like to change it but i don't know how to change the link. i'm sorry. still new to this. can anyone do it for me and find out how much it's sold globally as well? does anyone know if the record has gone gold yet? (Rocknroll47 (talk) 01:24, 9 April 2009 (UTC))

For Reception
Since the article seems so quick to judge CD a failure based on US and UK charts, why not be a little more respectful of sales in other countries and note that CD is #1 in Europe AND #1 GLOBALLY?http://www.mediatraffic.de/albums.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.107.24.213 (talk) 13:58, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Those charts are not reliable if you believe Record charts. And if you have a look on the latest news the album will fall like a bomb next week.  If it's due to a lack of quality or no promotion at all is another question... --Say Headcheese!- hexa  Chord 2  23:17, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

The second article you posted said nothing about falling out, just saying the first week sales were disappointing, and the first one said it'd drop out of the UK Top 5 on December 6th, well, it's the 7th where I live, and even later than that in the UK, and it's still at 2, so I guess it was wrong? It's impossible to tell what'll happen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.185.42.76 (talk) 03:16, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It's fallen to 11 in the UK, actually. &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 13:09, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

For reception I've added it's placing in Rolling Stone's Top 50 Albums of 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KILLER BOB11694 (talk • contribs) 18:38, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

IGN review
The article says that IGN placed Chinese Democracy as the worst album of the year but I certainly don't think IGN is a legitimate source for reviewing music and the link is wrong anyway. I think this should be completely removed. Any thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.38.236.215 (talk) 21:30, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree. If they can't even do a decent job of reviewing games, which is their supposed area of expertise, they shouldn't be taken seriously as music critics. I'm not a huge G'n'R fan, but Chinese Democracy was pretty good, and there were certainly MUCH worse albums that came out in 2008. 142.177.57.122 (talk) 19:26, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

"Better" Music Video
Our local Portland, Oregon radio station "Rock 101.1 KUFO" stated that Metallica drummer Lars Ulrich would be featured in GNR's music video for "Better". Can anyone confirm/deny this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.237.175.111 (talk) 06:09, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Can anyone confirm a "Better" video?--Avant-garde a clue- hexa Chord 2  06:23, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

axl said the video would be out in december....its march and were still waiting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rocknroll47 (talk • contribs) 19:19, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That's exactly what I kinda asked. It may exist, yes, but we also may wait several years for it to be released...-- Avant-garde a clue - hexa Chord 2  19:40, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Ouch. -- Wh ip it !  Now whip it good! 03:25, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Adding Alternative rock
Some songs are more Alt. rock than Hard rock itself.

I think adding Alt. rock to Chinese Democracy genres would be nice. I'm waiting replies to add it. Robfbms (talk) 21:57, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I am waiting for sources. -- Avant-garde a clue - hexa Chord 2  22:50, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Guns n Roses's music and image doesn't really seem like an alternative rock band. Alt rock tends to be heavily punk-derived and less commercial look and "polished sound" of glam metal. THink sonic youth, pixies, REM. 203.184.2.116 (talk) 11:42, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Parental Advisory
Some people claim to have seen the album with a PA at one time or another. I, having been at Best Buy to get the album the first day it came out and not seeing the sticker on any copy whatsoever, strongly contest those claims! If anyone thinks the lack of a PA is original research, bring it up on this talk page, OK? --Ryanasaurus0077 (talk) 00:24, 19 April 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not a matter of it being a "controversy" or not, it's just not important. Other albums have a similar amount of "strong language" on them and don't have lines stating that they don't have parental advisory labels on them. Darwin&#39;s Bulldog (talk) 17:56, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but this is monumental as this is GNR's FIRST new album to be released without a Parental Advisory. ("The Spaghetti Incident?" doesn't count since in its early days it did carry a PA instead of a personalized warning from GN'F'N'R's, and neither do Use Your Illusion due to being a condensed version of the UYI albums or Greatest Hits due to containing the best of Guns N Roses instead of new material.) Surely this feat deserves SOME mention on the main page? --Ryanasaurus0077 (talk) 18:07, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Why do you think that's important? -- Avant-garde a clue - hexa Chord 2  18:14, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Because GNR's other studio albums received Parental Advisory labels, BUT NOT THIS ONE! And the only place to find it is Best Buy if you're looking for it in retail. --Ryanasaurus0077 (talk) 18:36, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I think there's more significant things about this album to divide it from earlier releases than some sticker on the jewel case. If you have a good source for an analysis of the album's lyrics - maybe compared to the earlier albums - you might include it. A missing sticker is not. -- Avant-garde a clue - hexa  Chord 2  18:45, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Again, the point is moot regardless to what HexaChord is saying above. The lack of perceived censorship is not important information. Should it also have a sentence in the opening paragraph stating that this is the first GNR album without Slash and Duff as well since this is the first GNR album without them? That's the path that Ryanasaurus0077 is going down with this line of thinking. Darwin&#39;s Bulldog (talk) 18:54, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually I wanted to name Slash being not there as one thing more significant than a missing sticker. But I guess we could set up a whole List of things different on Chinese Democracy compared to earlier studio albums by Guns N' Roses? -- Avant-garde a clue - hexa Chord 2  19:09, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * LOL! Darwin&#39;s Bulldog (talk) 19:11, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, my attempt to create such a list fell apart almost immediately. Got any more brilliant ideas, hexaChord?--Ryanasaurus0077 (talk) 00:29, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Always, have you ever read my newsletter? -- Avant-garde a clue - hexa Chord 2  20:14, 28 April 2009 (UTC)


 * No. Know why? Because I don't know where it's located. I'd read it, if only you'd show me where to go. --Ryanasaurus0077 (talk) 20:20, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

'Ecstatic' New York crowd
if someone doesn't change the word 'ecstatic' in describing the reaction of the new york mtv crowd to GnR in 2002, I eventually will. it's totally out of order for an encyclopedic entry, and demonstrates a great deal of bias. 124.191.120.158 (talk) 07:37, 21 May 2009 (UTC) Bernard

New RB Cover Art
shouldnt we add that awsome "hand" cover for the rock band version? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rocknroll47 (talk • contribs) 00:38, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Other non-album GnR songs
What about Livin' Loud, Shadow Of Your Love, Silkworms, and Strip Bar? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.76.200.14 (talk) 00:10, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Also "Dust In The Wind", which is an original song, not a cover of the Kansas song. I was able to download all of the above from Frostwire.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.76.200.14 (talk) 00:16, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

consensus
I am asking how to handle the disagreement between me and another editor over whether the reviews for the album have been "mixed" or "mixed to positive". The other editor says that "mixed" infers positive, like in a range or average, but I say a mixed review is one that is neither unfavorable or favorable (but inbetween), like a 2 and a half out of 5 star review. At Metacritic, the reviews are shown to be mostly mixed and positive ones, with a couple negative. Dan56 (talk) 10:36, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that 'mixed' means in-between positive and negative because in-between is a 'mix' of positivity and negativity. Martarius (talk) 10:39, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Sales
According to the Billboard round up for the year 2009 Chinese Democracy sold more that Working on a Dream by Bruce Springsteen. Seen as this album sold in excess of 600,000 copies in 2009 is it not safe to assume that Chinese Democracy has sold more than the 600,000 quote on this page? Remember Chinese Democracy was released in 2008 and had many sales before the turn of the year —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.237.136.218 (talk) 10:21, 7 April 2010 (UTC)