Talk:Chinese Taipei at the Olympics

"Taiwanese" versus "Chinese Taipei" as an adjective describing an athlete
I think that the term "Taiwanese" should be avoided as a general adjective to describe the athletes in this article for at least the following reasons: In the interest of maintaining a neutral point of view, I think it would be more appropriate to say "Chinese Taipei athletes" instead of "Taiwanese athletes", or "athletes representing the Republic of China", "athletes representing the Republic of China (Formosa)", "athletes representing Chinese Taipei", etc., depending on the historical time line, i.e., using appropriate references to and derivations of the official name used by the IOC, the ROCOC and later the CTOC, as a matter of fact. — Ydw (talk) 19:38, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) Various ambiguities about and controversies over the term "Taiwanese" exist, whether it means a person who is
 * 2) * from the province of Taiwan as administered under the Republic of China,
 * 3) * from the province of Taiwan as claimed by the People's Republic of China,
 * 4) * a Chinese mainlander who relocated to Taiwan with the Republic of China government after 1949,
 * 5) * a person from the islands of Kinmen and Matsu, which are not part of the province of Taiwan but are under ROC administration,
 * 6) * a person who lives or lived in Taiwan,
 * 7) * a person who has ancestry from Taiwan,
 * 8) * a person supporting the separatism of Taiwan,
 * 9) * etc., (you get the idea).
 * 10) It is not known
 * 11) * whether each athlete individually has a personal preference in identifying himself or herself as "Chinese" or "Taiwanese", and
 * 12) * whether he or she means "Chinese" or "Taiwanese" in an ethnic, political, geographical or habitual-residence sense, if he or she has such a preference.
 * 13) At least one athlete, Chen Jing who was born in 1968 in Mainland China, has won Olympic medals in table tennis representing Mainland China and Taiwan at different Olympic Games. It is highly unlikely that she identifies herself as "Taiwanese".
 * 14) Some of the athletes do not regularly reside in Taiwan (professional baseball players in Japan and the U.S., other athletes who live abroad). And although I have not searched this, I think it is safe to assume that there have been "overseas Chinese" (華僑) athletes who have competed for Chinese Taipei and who have never lived in Taiwan.
 * 15) The [N]OC and the delegation sent by the ROC/Taiwan to international sports competitions is officially called Chinese Taipei. The Chinese Taipei Olympic Committee (CTOC) demands that its member sports federations and athletes respect and abide by this representation at official competition venues regarding the name, flag, emblem, and anthem (prohibiting any reference to or representation or suggestion of ROC or Taiwanese statehood or independence), lest a violation of the 1979 Nagoya Resolution and the 1981-03-23 agreement with the IOC results in the permanent termination (expulsion) of the CTOC from the IOC due to the current language of Article 31.1 in the Olympic Charter.  The language of the Charter was changed in the 1990s, but did not apply retroactively so as to terminate the memberships of both the CTOC and the HKOC.
 * 16) To provide a complete historical context, this article may refer to events before 1949 where the "Taiwanese" description might be inaccurate or inappropriate.
 * 17) See also
 * 18) *Chinese Taipei and Olympism
 * 19) *Olympic Charter
 * 20) *奧會模式現況
 * 21) *Could China stop Taiwan from coming to the games?
 * 22) *How "Chinese Taipei" came about

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TPE and ROC
There seems to be some confusion between this article and Republic of China at the Olympics. That ROC article is for historical ROC which represented all of China, prior to the Chinese Civil War, in three Olympic Games (1932, 1936, and 1948). Subsequent appearances were by ROC (Taiwan), so they go together with this article. Jmj713 (talk) 03:47, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 18 December 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved  (t &#183; c)  buidhe  06:37, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Chinese Taipei at the Olympics → Taiwan at the Olympics – WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NPOV. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:16, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
 * They go by "Chinese Taipei" for Olympic purposes, but I wouldn't be entirely opposed to this. As comparison, was moved to Republic of the Congo at the Olympics in 2018, and East Timor at the Olympics is stable at that title.  O.N.R.  (talk) 10:58, 18 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Super   Ψ   Dro  15:09, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:OFFICIALNAME and ambuigity about the political status of Taiwan. 36.68.163.48 (talk) 16:21, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
 * WP:OFFICIALNAME says not to use the official name if it's contrary to policy (e.g. WP:COMMONNAMES). —  AjaxSmack 17:06, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose "Chinese Taipei" and "Taiwan" are not interchangeable, the article at Chinese Taipei explains why this name is used. WP:NPOV should lead us to the term that is accepted by both the PRC and the ROC.  162 etc. (talk) 17:56, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
 * This article covers the pre-"Chinese Taipei" era as well. It's not Wikipedia's job to satisfy the Chinese or Taiwanese authorities if it violates policy. —  AjaxSmack  17:06, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 * While the article covers the years prior to the adoption of the Chinese Taipei designation, the name has been in use for almost 40 years, and has been used in more Olympiads than any other. There's no evidence that "Taiwan" should be preferred as the common name. 162 etc. (talk) 17:25, 21 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Strong Support WP:COMMONNAME applies here, "Taiwan" and "Chinese Taipei" both are WP:OFFICIALNAMEs, so the exception doesn't apply here. that is why WP:COMMONNAME will apply. Kalanumber (talk) 08:19, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose The official name should be used. 4nn1l2 (talk) 13:45, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Support. Check Category:Taiwan at the Summer Olympics by year and you can see that Taiwan has competed as "China", "Formosa", "Taiwan" and "Chinese Taipei" at the Olympics since 1949.  Since the current title is only one of several names the country has competed under (and that name is both unclear and non-idiomatic), use the common name of the country instead.  —  AjaxSmack  17:06, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 * That category should probably be renamed to Category:Chinese Taipei at the Summer Olympics by year to be consistent with Category:Great Britain at the Summer Olympics by year. Athletes from the United Kingdom instead compete as "Great Britain", and the actual Great Britain article is about the island instead of the country. Zzyzx11 (talk) 12:00, 25 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose I fail to understand how "Taiwan" would be the common name in the specific context of the Olympics. Most English-language reliable sources I have seen that cover the Olympics also use "Chinese Taipei" when referring to the Games, athletes, sports, and events. Generally, these reliable sources seem to treat it more as the name of a team, as in national sports teams, rather than specifically the name of a country, like Refugee Olympic Team at the Olympics, Unified Team at the Olympics, or Mixed teams at the Olympics. And athletes from the United Kingdom instead compete as "Great Britain", while the actual Great Britain article is about the island instead of the country. Therefore, unless proven otherwise by such reliable sources, I disagree with the OP to give such carte blanche while ignoring the sports context. It is not the country that is competing in these sports events per se, but the national sports team that represents them. And as basically stated in the Chinese Taipei article, any national sports team that represent the country of Taiwan generally is called "Chinese Taipei". A similar NPOV argument could be made if we move this page and Wikipedia becomes the only source that does not refer to this Olympic team or any other such national sports team as "Chinese Taipei". Zzyzx11 (talk) 10:49, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Zzyzx11 and the Great Britain comparison. I also support a move of the Taiwan at the Olympics category. "Chinese Taipei" is the COMMONNAME for the Taiwan team in the context of the Olympics. This is to be contrasted with Hong Kong at the Olympics, where the team is officially known as "Hong Kong, China" but the COMMONNAME is by far "Hong Kong" so we use "Hong Kong" in the article title. As for the Congo and East Timor comparisons, these countries send much smaller teams of athletes to the Olympics than Taiwan do and have never won any medals, and understandably receive far less media coverage to make a reliable judgement on COMMONNAME. feminist (talk) 16:01, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Description of "China"
Since this isn't an article on China (or Taiwan), it seems that some clarification of how China is defined needs to be included in the introduction. The fact that the ROC purported to be the government representing "all of China" is unclear in its current form. Merely saying "all of China including Taiwan" is misleading because that is neither the definition of:


 * The current, widely accepted, and commonly named China (PRC; which has no jurisdiction over Taiwan nor ever represented Taiwan in the Olympics), per WP:COMMONNAME; nor
 * The historical and cultural Greater China or even Qing dynasty, which both include Mongolia; nor
 * The ROC claimed territories, which included Mongolia

Even in that sentence alone, China is defined differently. In 1932 and 1936, Taiwan was not represented by the ROC; in 1948, it was.

This should be clarified: The Republic of China, representing all pre-war China (excluding Taiwan), participated at the Summer Olympic Games in 1932 and 1936, and, representing all of an expanded China including that included Taiwan and Mongolia, participated in the 1948 Summer Olympics.—2600:1702:1790:1AE0:F438:7EA4:AB0E:38D7 (talk) 16:00, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I've reverted similar edits, and after reviewing this latest one, I've decided to simply delete the text altogether. The current hatnote, as well as Chinese Taipei at the Olympics, sufficiently explain everything. 162 etc. (talk) 17:33, 28 December 2022 (UTC)