Talk:Chinese calendar/Archive 3

Practical Use
Actually to this day farmers use the calendar and only that calendar to figure out their agriculture seasons. In rural communities they hardly even have the gregorian calendar. If they used that calendar with their calendar then talking to them about days would be much easier. Also most Chinese people talk birthdays in the Chinese calendar and only officially record their gregorian birthday for IDs and stuff since the PRC follows international standards. Most even celebrate on the Chinese date unless they want to be "westernized" and celebrate on the western date. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to ask about ages and birthdays from Chinese people because every time its like you have to ask twice once to get the Chinese date they feel is important and then again to find out the one that means anything to you. Younger generation urbanites are more likely to know you mean the gregorian dates but even the older generations will naturally assume you mean the Chinese date. This is also why dates for traditional holidays are so easy for them to remember. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.168.122.165 (talk) 15:26, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Error in template
"The year from January 31, 2014 to February 18, 2015 is a Jiǎwǔnián or Mùmǎnián (Year of wooden Horse), a year with dual Vernal Commences(traditional Chinese: 两頭春; simplified Chinese: 两头春)."
 * A space is needed between "Commences" and "(traditional." WikiWinters (talk) 17:11, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Cleanup required
It is clear to anyone reading this article that it desperately needs editing to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. What I'm currently trying to work out is exactly how it needs cleanup: At any rate, I've dropped a cleanup tag on the page. The problems may be bad enough to require a full rewrite, but I've chosen to be conservative for now. Feel free to add to the discussion. Arcorann (talk) 11:52, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Copy-editing is desperately required. Large portions of the article have been revised by one editor in particular who clearly does not have the best grasp of writing in English or style guidelines.
 * Reorganisation. Right now it isn't too bad, though; still, I think it could be better organised, especially because there is:
 * Way too much information. Especially when stuff that should really be on other pages intrudes onto this page e.g. all the stuff on the Tibetan calendar.
 * An awful lot of inline Chinese quotes. I don't mind when they're used as examples or as references, but there are enough to detract from the page

Timezone matters
Should the timezone of determining days in a month be mentioned? A month begins on a day of new moon. Since the instant of new moon is universal across the globe, but a day is not, technically different places may observe different first day of a month.

For example, the first day in Chinese new year is a day with new moon in East Asia. But because of the time difference between East Asia and the US, the new moon may fall in the previous day in the current timezone system. In extreme case, China, Japan, Korea and Vietnam may not even agree on the day which a month starts on, at least technically.

However, by observation, East Asia and the US observes Chinese new year on the same date in accordance with modern timezone concept. Hence, I believe there is a hidden standard time concept (which is probably to be UTC+8), though I don't see sources for this. &mdash; Peter why  18:54, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
 * As per Aslaksen (The Mathematics of the Chinese Calendar section 4.6, linked on page), the timezone used is UTC+8 since 1929, and Beijing mean time (116°52') before that. There was a whole section on this at one point (see e.g. r534385599). Arcorann (talk) 11:49, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your confirmation. Do you think this should be mentioned in the current article? &mdash; Peter why  18:38, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

4712 TO NOHACH AND THE ARK :    4712 לנח והתיבה
WE NEAD TO CHEK IF HAS IN THE BIBLE NOHACH WAS BEFORE 4712 YEARES AS THEY DO NOT COLECT THE 13 MONTH A YEAR https://www.google.co.il/search?q=%D7%A0%D7%97&espv=2&biw=1536&bih=783&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMI3-O51veQxgIVyNYUCh38yQBs

NOACH IS A FATHER TO CHINA CALENDER AND THE ANIMULS IS LITTELL OF WHAT SAVED IN THE ARK AND THE DRAGON IS THE OLD BBIBLE GENESIS SNACKE THET IT IS THE REHEM OR CHIVIYA IS THE GAYENT ELEGEITER IN DAY 5 OF GENESIS WHAT IS THE FROT IF 4712 YEARS IS TO NOHACH OR TO PHANGO IF CHINA SOPORT SEVEN DAYES A WEEK — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.219.140.199 (talk) 05:20, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

days and elements
The Japanese names for weekdays are translated Sol day, Luna day, Mars day, Mercury day, Jupiter day, Venus day, Saturn day. That's one way to read it. But the planets (other than Sun and Moon) are named for the five elements – e.g. Mars is 'Fire star' – and the 'star' root does not appear in the day names. So the names are arguably more accurately translated as Sun day, Moon day, Fire day, Water day, Wood day, Metal day, Earth day. I'd be happy with either "Fire (Mars) day" or "Mars (Fire) day". —Tamfang (talk) 16:29, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

-

i agree that this translation seems to just replicate the English usages without regarding the actual translation at work. the Mandarin characters used for the days of the week right next to this translation are those used for the classical elements (other than Sun and Moon), and in Korean (as well Japanese apparently) the days of the week are taught to people as being named for the elements (including to those learning them as a second/other language). the translations are from both the Mandarin and Korean: Fire Day, Water Day, Wood Day, Metal Day, and Earth Day (for T/W/H/F/S), and these should replace those in the Meaning column presently. also, 'Sun Day' and 'Moon Day' should be properly capitalized. -eristikophiles; user talk; 20160630:1419EST. —Preceding undated comment added 18:19, 30 June 2016 (UTC) The seven weekdays are called as seven luminaries on duty, Not sun, moon and five elements. Actually, the five elements were not five elements at first, they were five seasons. Water is rainy season, wood is growing season, fire is the hottest season, Earth is dry season, and Metal is coldest(war) season. The “element” means “phase” at all. 112.97.57.169 (talk) 08:13, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

The sun and moon is more honorable than other luminaries. In Chinese culture, honorable-first. The Chinese name of the shinest “stars”, Top overt thing(taiyang, sun), monthly shine thing(yueliang, moon), fire star(huoxing, mar), water star(shuixing, Mercury), wooden star(muxing ,Jupiter), golden star(jinxing, Vernus), soil star(tuxing, Saturn), heaven-king star(tianwangxing, Uranus), sea-king star(haiwangxing, Neptune), and hell-king star(minwangxin, Pluto)112.97.57.169 (talk) 08:16, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Sequence of the days
It would be much more logical to change the table with the translations and meaning of the days in the international, common sequence, beginning with Monday. Monday is the first day of the week. Maybe not in the US, but in Europe, China and the rest of the world, we start a week on Monday. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.195.85.34 (talk) 23:29, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

-

the only people who insist on Sunday being the first day of the week are christians, who cannot (or at least should not) hegemonically impose their religious preference for this practice on things like an impartial public encyclopedia. Monday is the first day of the week, and this practice is used by so many people that Google calendar has it as an option (and we all know their options aren't that consistently there or not). please change the day of the week so all us not-godfearing people can resume our secular days. -eristikophiles; |user talk; 20160630:1426EST. —Preceding undated comment added 18:26, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Sunday is the 0th day of the week. The Chinese of Sunday is “xingqi ri”, word-to-word translation is “weekday day”. It's potential mean is “the nominal day or capital day of the week”. According to the tradition of Eastern, the nominal or capital should be listed ahead. And, if Sunday seventh, it will be called as xingqi qi(weekday seven), for Chinese never give the rest day a special name. On the other hand, Chinese always give 0 a special name, such as “chu". It's suitable to the seven luminaries too. Sun and moon is more honourable than others, so sun-day first, moon-day second. Monday first is Christians custom, Christ build Everything at six days, and rest at the seventh. 112.97.57.169 (talk) 07:31, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

birthday exceptions

 * But, if someone was born on the 30th of a month, his birthday is the last day of that month, and if someone is born in an intercalary month, his birthday is the day with the same date in the common month of the intercalary month.

The last part is unclear. Should the last of be or? Which common month, before or after where the intercalary would be? —Tamfang (talk) 08:02, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Section on divisions of the day needs overhaul
See here. — Llywelyn II   14:41, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Hey there! I've done a lot of work to clean up Chinese Traditional Time System and move stuff from this article over there. Because of that, I'm going to delete most of the "Time System" section here and direct people there. --A garbage person (talk) 15:56, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

External links modified
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Erroneous text inserted about lengths of Chinese months
Under the heading "Month", these two sentences are giving a wrong description of Chinese months: "Instead of using half-days to balance months with the lunar cycle, every other month of the year has 29 days (short month, 小月) and the rest have 30 (long month, 大月). Years start on a long month and alternate.". This "method" of approximating lunar months by alternating "short" and "long" months is NOT used in the Chinese calendar; instead every lunar month begins on the date of the "Lunar Conjunction" (or "Astronomical New Moon") in China (meridian 120 degrees East), and therefore any lunar month can be either "short" or "long" (in different years). This is correctly described by Helmer Aslaksen in Singapore, a well-known expert on the Chinese calendar, e.g. in "The Mathematics of the Chinese Calendar." (2010; http://www.math.nus.edu.sg/~mathelmr/calendar/cal.pdf), Section 4.2 "The Chinese month" (p. 18-21), and also by Edward M. Reingold and Nachum Dershowitz, two of the whole Worlds most well-known experts on calendars, in their monumental "Calendrical Calculations. The Ultimate Edition." (2018), in which they wrote e.g. that "The Chinese calendar is a lunisolar calendar based on astronomical events, not arithmetical rules." (p. 305). I have no idea about who introduced those completely wrong sentences into this Wikipedia page, but unless somebody can point to "better" references which show that both Aslaksen (2010) and Reingold & Dershowitz (2018) were wrong, I suggest the removal of those two wrong sentences very soon. /Erik Ljungstrand (Sweden) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.241.158.201 (talk) 16:35, 2 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi Erik. I'm one of the people who helped clean up this page when it was overly-long and written in machine-translated English. I was likely the one who wrote that sentence, because I was interested in making the article more readable—the sentence I rephrased had that same statement.
 * The beauty of Wikipedia is that you're free to make those edits yourself. Please feel free to do so! It's much faster than waiting for someone else to make them. It sounds like you have some expertise in this area, which is sorely needed on this topic. Your help would be greatly appreciated. -- A garbage person (talk) 18:41, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Now I have deleted the two mentioned sentences, and instead given a correct sentence on the variation in length of (numbered) Chinese lunar months. /Erik Ljungstrand (Sweden) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.241.158.201 (talk) 14:25, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Epoch of the era counted from Emperor Yao (帝堯紀年)
Under the heading "Continuous numbering" five different eras occasionally used for Chinese years are given. Of these the second, "Yáo year (帝堯紀年), starting at the beginning of the reign of Emperor Yao (year 1 at 2156 BC)", seems to give a wrong epochal year, as most traditional history of China gives 2356 B.C.E. (or thereabouts) as the birth year of Emperor Yao, and 2333 B.C.E. (or thereabouts) as the first year of reign for him. Maybe the year "2156 BC" given on this page is an "typhographical" error for 2356 B.C.E., but in any case most sources seem to give 2333 B.C.E. as the first year of Emperor Yao, and therefore the "Yáo year (帝堯紀年)" probably should be counted from 2333 B.C.E., and not from "2156 BC", long time after the traditional Chinese time of Emperor Yao. Coincidentally, the year 2333 B.C.E. is also the epoch of the traditional Korean "Dangun" era, maybe there could be some kind of connection between these two eras? /Erik Ljungstrand (Sweden) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.241.158.201 (talk) 16:50, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Section 1.1 Solar Calendar
The part that talks about five element calendar (五行曆) is not correct. If there are 73 days in an element phase then a year is 365 days. On the other hand, it says each year starts with jiǎzǐ (甲子), which implies 360 days a year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phucly23 (talk • contribs) 14:59, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Also, would you share the reference to this statement? "Other days were tracked using the Yellow River Map (He Tu)." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phucly23 (talk • contribs) 19:30, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Common Holidays Based on the Chinese (Lunar) Calendar
I just want to point out that a similar section was deleted in the past with the fallacious argument of WP:COATRACK by Miniapolis on 7 October 2018. The significance of the Chinese calendar as it no longer is used anywhere in an official capacity is precisely in its current usage for traditional holidays and religious holidays and observances. It is also significant with regards to historical records but this is of minor interest to everyday users. Therefore please do not delete this section as it is THE MAJOR REASON why the Chinese calendar has relevance today.Hanbud (talk) 02:32, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Chinese calendar is NOT lunar
It is lunisolar. And other lunisolar/lunar calendars have totally different new year dates. Islamic New Year is 8/09/2021 and Jewish New Year is 9/06/2021 yet we don't call them Lunar New Years. "Chinese calendar" is accurate and differentiates from other lunisolar/lunar calendars. Kylinki (talk) 16:10, 3 February 2021 (UTC)