Talk:Chinese restaurant syndrome

Chinese restaurant syndrome is a thing: Mediating the structure of debated WP topics
In this text, I propose that there be a proper web page about Chinese restaurant syndrome that stands alone without being subsumed into debates about it's causes or ramifications of it's possible existence, for example MSG safety. In this way, general understanding will be improved.

(The same approach of looking at an article's subject as a thing separate from the debates it engenders, may help restructure WP articles that have similarly confusing debates. Debate confusion too often forces the topic out of readers' access. In many cases, the text of this same proposal might be helpful as a template for other confused WP article subjects by changing the name of the topic from "Chinese restaurant syndrome" to other topic's names and editing other occasional details.)

A Wikipedia page about Chinese restaurant syndrome should summarize and describe it, like any other WP topic, as a thing that is referenced and believed to exist by some people somewhere. The topic is important, as evidenced by the large debate it generates. Vehement opinions range from demands that either this is a large deep topic, or a phrase that should never be discussed. It is important to first define what it is that is being debated. A reader of this page first wants to know what this thing called Chinese restaurant syndrome is. The page should have a definition, history, discussion of its components, some short description of criticisms (not the majority of the page, but with links to more information on debated topics), external links, and references to scientific and literary sources which support focused statements about the thing called Chinese restaurant syndrome. Like any good encyclopedia article, if the topic sources are primarily anecdotal reports, then say that and give high quality sources about those reports. A Wikipedia page about a specific thing should not be subsumed by political and economic debate about the potential financial, legal, medical or epidemiological ramifications of the thing's potential existence, but certainly they should be listed if good quality references are available. Refer to debatable information without substituting those debates for the article subject. If a page about Chinese restaurant syndrome is complete onto its self, it should help the general public and scientific community engage in intelligent discourse about it. This greater understanding is not supported if the topic can not be found.

Perhaps this perspective on a Chinese restaurant syndrome Wikipedia page will help mediate conflicting demands raised by those who care about this subject. --Ellisun (talk) 21:52, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Can
Can anyone explain why the supposed effect is not observed in China, or for that matter, in any other Asian country where they have been using MSG additions to food for the past 60 years, and (via the use of seaweed extracts) glutamate based flavour enhancers for centuries? Speaking scientifically, could it possibly be that the fact that the whole thing is a load of western media hyseria crap might have something to do with it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.198.33.252 (talk) 11:02, 27 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Are you sure it isn't observed in China? Maybe Chinese people just aren't aware of the cause of their health problems.   I used to live in China and several of my Chinese friends had odd health symptoms. One of my friends thought his migraines were caused from eating pork (he was Chinese Muslim) so he only ate at certain Muslim restaurants (which also didn't use much MSG), another friend thought her health problems were caused by air pollution and another got sick unless she ate home-cooked food.

FFN001 (talk) 20:26, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

More evidence
I've recently bought Ajinomoto (pure GMS crystals to add to food) and used it to add some flavor to rice I had cooked. After eating the GMS-added rice I started feeling a really strange burning sensation on my neck, and a weird pressure on my cheeks. The connection between GMS and the symptoms I was feeling seemed quite obvious to me, since those odd sensations started just after I was finished eating (please note, rice and GMS were the only ingredients I had eaten, and absolutely no one has ever experienced those sensations after eating rice!). I then decided to google up some informations about GMS, just to find out that those symptons - that I've never heard of before (couldn't be a placebo effect) were pretty common after eating GMS. And to find out - to my disbelief - that there is still controversy on such matter, even with the outstanding evidence that I was facing - the symptoms I was feeling.

Quite amazing how much information the industry can manipulate and distort!

Update: Reading more about this on the internet, I've come to the conclusion that this article may be biased. It certainly needs more information on all the researches that indicate that GMS is hazardous. http://edition.cnn.com/HEALTH/diet.fitness/9907/23/msg.avoiding/ http://www.msgtruth.org/ http://www.truthinlabeling.org/

There is certainly some inconvenient facts about all of this. I'm obviously taking a side, but that's because I've witnessed the effects of this in my own body and I'm quite amazed of how none of this is as mainstream as it should be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.170.107.180 (talk) 05:06, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Contradiction
I tagged the following as contradictory:


 * Studies have consistently shown that pure MSG does not cause the symptoms of the syndrome. This is inconsistent with the fact that millions of people experience symptoms after consuming commercially available MSG.

Would someone who knows something about MSG allergies please fix? Thanks. 71.141.171.12 19:37, 3 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Never mind, it was just confusing. s/This is inconsistent with the fact that/However,/ 71.141.171.12 19:39, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

The confusion could probably be cleared up by stating that although pure MSG does not cause a reaction, the symptoms experienced by people occur after consuming Food containing MSG.

This article should be removed
This article should be removed for the following reasons: 1. the term, "Chinese restaurant syndrome" is primarily used by some speakers in the U.S. and not even widely acknowledged by Americans. 2. It is a colloquial term and not actually a syndrome. Rather, it describes stereotypes and perceptions rather than facts.
 * Even if that's true, that does not mean the topic is not encyclopedic. What you'd need to do is describe how it is a misnomer and back it up with credible sources.  A-giau 05:22, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Steven Rose quote
Steven Rose touches on this in his new book "The 21-Century Brain". I have added the quote, but am not sure how to cite it. The book's full title is: "The 21-Century Brain: Explaining, Mending and Manipulating the Mind" (2005). The ISBN is 0-099-42977-2.

By the way—to the poster who argued that the term "Chinese restaurant syndrome" is "American" and therefore the article should be removed, Steven Rose is an English neuroscientist. You know, from England. U.K. Not America.


 * I went ahead and fixed it for you. Also this page looks like it is ready for the tag to come off of it, Everything seems pretty well cited. I am going to remove the tag, if you feel I am wrong please put the citation tag back on and leave a comment on what needs improving. Gorkymalorki 02:46, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

CBN
There seems to be a msg war going on.

Question: have all Wiki articles on msg related topics been the subject of continual vandalism? or the fruit of some ill difined take away virus?

CBN reports studies on animals show that msg brings about stupidity in the young and turns the animal into a breeding ground for illness.

Have all studies on this subject become the mere expressions of an international trade war?

AP

Sources?
This article states twice, "Is is commonly believed that monosodium glutamate (MSG) is the cause, but repeated scientific studies have shown no link." What scientific studies? Chinese food has never bothered me, but places with lots of MSG cause me to feel "burny" all over and a doctor thought it probably WAS MSG that caused it!Squad51 04:18, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Maybe a link to the main Monosodium Glutamate Page would be in order. Plenty of sources indicating safety over there.

Experiences
i recently got weird pancreas inflamation, and searched web to track it. i am usually very paranoid about MSG, and just avoid it, but recently i ate spicy stuff, including it, in hope it'll damage worms i've got (ascaris)

will this help ? : http://www.google.pl/search?q=monosodium+glutamate+pancreas&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox&rls=org.mozilla:pl-PL:unofficial

i see some war is going on that subject (and i see lot of more info on glutamate supressed) , so i'll paste fist hit google gave me in case someone bombed it : http://www.obesityresearch.org/cgi/content/full/11/1/87

ah, i have suspection of CFTR gene damage, and i am known to be over-sensitive to many drugs (like chlorpromazine) dunno if it's related but perhaps that's why MSG hit me harder than usual ppl.

83.12.255.234 08:22, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Ramen Noodles for Breakfast and....
I just had a bowl of that ramen noodle and, stupidly, added that "flavor packet"....Well, halfway through the bowl, i started getting heart palpitations, my eyes started itching and my nose started secreting....  Its quite obvious this was a direct "cause-effect" situation, as I was feeling fine prior to consuming this stuff. It felt like I had just swallowed a few high-potency Niacin tablets...    Thirty minutes later:  the heart palpitations and general feeling of malaise have resolved...

I came to this discussion after googling "chinese restaurant syndrome"....After reading the article, I was quite surprised to find that there is no correlation between MSG consumption and symptoms such as I just experienced. It is obvious to me that the article has been doctored (edited) by and MSG industry apologist, for such claims are refuted by my own experience and that of millions of others who have become ill from consuming foodstuffs with this nasty and totally unnecessary additive.

Please correct the misinformation in this article. I plan to do more searches in the Wikipedia to see if similar inaccurate claims are made on behalf of MSG. 70.127.129.116

Sigh. Could it be possible, just MAYBE possible that what people are actually seeing is something else. The general logiv that seems to being used is as follows:

I ate Chinease Food I became ill. Chinease food contains MSG Therefore MSG made me ill.

Curiously, you say that "I came to this discussion after googling "chinese restaurant syndrome"....After reading the article, I was quite surprised to find that there is no correlation between MSG consumption and symptoms such as I just experienced." It seems that you came here expeting to confirm an already held assumption that MSG caused the symptoms, but when you checked and found there was no link you assume a coverup. Though for you piece of mind http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/msg.html have a look. it confirms that 1 of your symptoms is associated with MSG intollerence. Perhaps, it is less to do with the MSG and more to do with your diet. I present the satement Ramen Noodles for Breakfast and.... as evidence. I don't think Ramen noodles constitute a healthy balanced breakfast. Finally, an intolllerence to something does not mean that it is toxic. Plenty of people are intollerent of lots of things, but that does not mean that they are in anyway toxic. 194.105.181.145 15:24, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Laura Scrudder
I was wondering what the rationale was behind including that as an example, I think a more widely known brand such as Doritos or something of that sort would be a better example. I have never even heard of Laura Scrudder potato chips, is it a regional thing? Anyone got any objections to changing it to a more nationally recognized brand?Gorkymalorki 01:43, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

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Merged into Glutamic acid (flavor)
This article has been merged into Glutamic acid (flavor), the Chinese restaurant syndrome article contained mostly duplicate content from that article. Cacycle (talk) 04:37, 12 January 2009 (UTC)