Talk:Chipping Norton railway station

Original company
If Sarsden Halt is shown as originally OW&WR, why is Chipping Norton shown as originally B&CDR? --Redrose64 (talk) 16:21, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Interesting question. Firstly, Chipping Norton was not originally B&CDR unless we are talking about the second station at Chipping Norton which was opened as part of the B&CDR. My view is that the Chipping Norton station article should cover both stations as one succeeded the other.
 * I believe I put Sarsden Halt as OWWR. Sarsden Halt of course was opened by the GWR in 1906 but the Sarsden Halt article also covers Sarsden Siding which was there from the start. That leaves the question of who opened the railway to Chipping Norton in the first place. It was promoted as an independant enterprise, the "Chipping Norton Railway", but those investing seem to have received shares in the OWWR, albeit special Chipping Norton Branch shares. I will have to read up on this again but it seems that although the money for the branch was raised seperately it was always part of the OWWR. I am happy to be corrected if anyone can point me to a definite source of information!Bruern Crossing (talk) 06:38, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

(undent) Last night I put a book list at User talk:Motacilla but without titles or publishers. Two of the four (the exceptions are Jenkins, Brown & Parkhouse (2005) and Mitchell & Smith (Oct 2009) because I don't have them) are given fuller listing at Kingham railway station, which I've just added to (but not with inline citations as yet). Kingham railway station has chronology as prose; in summary:
 * 4 June 1853: OW&WR opened between Evesham & Oxford
 * 10 August 1855: Chipping Norton Railway opened, worked by OW&WR
 * 1859: CNR purchased by OW&WR (no specific date known, but Jenkins (1976), Russell and Hemmings all show simply 1859).
 * 1 July 1860: West Midland Rly formed by amalgamation of OW&WR with others
 * 1 March 1862: Bourton-on-the-Water railway opened, worked by WMR
 * 1 August 1863: West Midland Railway amalg with GWR
 * 1 February 1874: BWR absorbed by GWR
 * 1 June 1881: first section of B&CDR opened (Bourton-on-the-Water to Cheltenham), worked by GWR
 * 6 April 1887: second section (Chipping Norton to King's Sutton), worked by GWR
 * 1 July 1897: B&CDR absorbed by GWR.
 * 8 January 1906: Kingham flyover brought into use for goods trains (pass 1 May)

Right, what do we have re the ownership of the CNR? Taking my sources in order of publication:
 * 1) "The ... branch railway to Chipping Norton ... was constructed as a separate undertaking at a total cost of £26,000, of which local people subscribed £10,000 and Peto, the contractor, the remainder. The Oxford, Worcester & Wolverhampton Railway worked the line from the opening, and purchased it on a guarantee of 4 per cent. in 1859."
 * 2) "... the Chipping Norton Railway ... was constructed as a separate undertaking at a total cost of £26,000, of which local people subscribed £10,000 and Peto, the contractor, the remainder. The Oxford, Worcester & Wolverhampton Railway worked the line from the opening, and purchased it on a guarantee of 4% in 1859."
 * 3) "... Peto decided not only to build the line but also to risk £14,000 of his own private fortune to the enterprise. The estimate for the branch was £26,000 and the balance of £12,000 was made up by the inhabitants of Chipping Norton and district, the subscription list headed ... by William Bliss." and "In 1859, the Oxford, Worcester and Wolverhampton Railway, realizing at last, no doubt, that the little line was financially sound, purchased it on a guarantee of 4%"
 * 4) "The [Chipping Norton] railway was, in theory, an independent undertaking, but as Peto had subscribed £16,000 of the Company's authorised capital of £26,000 it was obvious where the power really lay." and "The Worcester company purchased the line outright in 1859."
 * 5) "The official estimated cost ... was £24,000 ... The OW&W was authorised to issue 2,400 additional shares of £10 each, called 'Chipping Norton Branch Shares' ... On 20th December 1853, ... John Fowler subscribed shares to the value of £1,000, and Sir Morton Peto ... subscribed ... £14,000 ... James Haughton Langston and William Bliss ... agreed to subscribe £1,000 and £1,200 respectively. The other 43 subscribers made up the balance with sums of between £600 and £20" and "... the Bill ... received Royal Assent on 31st July 1854 ... 'The Oxford, Worcester and Wolverhampton Railway (Chipping Norton Branch) Act, 1854' (17 & 18 VICT - SESS.1854)" finally "The year 1859 marked the end of the special financial arrangements concerning the shareholders, when the OW&W entered into a guarantee to pay 4% per annum to the holders of branch shares. The separate accounts were then closed."

It is clear that Gilks has lifted portions of MacDermot's text verbatim.

Since Sir Samuel Morton Peto was involved there may also be something in Adrian Vaughan's recent biography. If there is, it will be well-researched. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:27, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I suspect that the true answer may be found in the act of parliament. Colonel Yolland's inspection report on the opening of the line (quoted in The Banbury & Cheltenham Direct Railway by Stanley Jenkins, Bob Brown and Neil Parkhouse) states: "'I yesterday inspected the Chipping Norton Branch of the Oxford Worcester and Wolverhampton Railway'." The Oxford Chronicle for 18 August 1855, quoted in the same book says: "'The Company also engage... to pay to the Chipping Norton Shareholders a fair proportion of the profits brought by means of the branch to the main line. A clause is inserted in the act enabling the Oxford, Worcester & Wolverhampton company to purchase the shares at par, paying fair interest to the shareholders for their capital...'"


 * Also, from Hemmings vol 1 p18, report of the OWWR directors 28 August 1855: "'The shares created and issued, or to be issued, under the powers of the Oxford Worcester and Wolverhampton Railway (Chipping Norton Branch) act of 1854, which shall be existing at the time of such conversion, and in respect of which the whole money subscribed shall have been paid up, shall, when and as the same respectively have been paid up, be converted and consolidated into a Chipping Norton Branch Railway stock.'"


 * It seems to me that there was no Chipping Norton Railway Company for the OWWR to buy in 1859; the line had been built and operated by the OWWR. However, there were separate shares and separate accounts. Bruern Crossing (talk) 21:13, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I didn't spot that paragraph in Hemmings. Reading it several times, I'm not sure what it means: my impression is that the original shares were "Oxford Worcester and Wolverhampton Railway (Chipping Norton Branch)" shares, and that they became "Chipping Norton Branch Railway" shares. So, they are still not actual OW&WR shares.
 * If Peto personally owned more than 50% of the original shares, as all accounts that I have checked (I don't have Jenkins, Brown and Parkhouse, for the simple reason that it was published soon after Hemmings vol. 1, and I wasn't willing to pay out twice for the same railway line within a short time period) suggest he did, then he must have sold those to the OW&WR at some point. The date when they acquired those shares should therefore be determined. It is quite possible that separate accounts were maintained for a period after their purchase (I have personal experience of such).
 * Subsequently I have found this:"The reference to the Chipping Norton branch as a 'separate undertaking' is misleading; the same term is used in MacDermot ... The line was authorised by the Oxford Worcester and Wolverhampton Railway (Chipping Norton Branch) Act of July 31, 1854, and the separation of the capital was a purely financial matter."
 * There's nearly a whole page of letters regarding that article in the October issue, and one more in November (issue 655, pp.798-799). I must get a copy of Vaughan. Back in an hour or two --Redrose64 (talk) 10:32, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Got Vaughan. Not enough to use. There is one mention, and that in passing; see what I added to User talk:Motacilla at 16:19, 20 August 2009 (UTC) --Redrose64 (talk) 22:36, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Nationalisation
"When Britain's railways were nationalised in 1948 the B&CDR became part of the Western Region of British Railways." - surely the B&CDR had been swallowed up by the GWR some fifty years earlier? --Redrose64 (talk) 22:36, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed so (I was trying to leave at least some of the original text in place without modification), perhaps "the Banbury and Cheltenham line" would be better.Bruern Crossing (talk) 08:04, 23 August 2009 (UTC)