Talk:Chiropractic/Archive 1

New comments at the bottom please

RK, as I said on your talk page, I have no viewpoint on this subject. But I am not going to let you get away with such terms as "mysterious" and "unidentifiable". That is hardly NPOV. -- Zoe


 * Do not lie. The subluxation is very mysterious, as it is a scientific fact that it is unidentifiable. No scientist or medical doctor has ever seen such chirpractic subluxations, ever. There is a difference between having differents points of view on a phenomenon, and lying about facts that you are uncomfortable with. Sadly, you have crossed that line. RK

Zoe, I am still willing to work with you. But what you are doing now verges on vandalism. Stop pushing this pseudoscientific religious belief as some sort of scientific fact. Your continued refusal to discuss the issue, your huge deletions, and the way you hide facts that make you uncomfortable identify you as a vandal. Is this what you want? If you think that particular facts need some context, or needs to be rewritten in a different way, then fine. Let's work together. But I won't let people push pseudoscientific and religious beliefs as facts. That is a violation of Wikipedia NPOV policy. RK

Wow. This is the first time I've had any particular dealings with you, RK, and I don't see why we can't work together on this. I have no intention of leaving the Wikipedia, but the use of the terminology that you use is hardly NPOV. Please tell me what is NPOV about "mysterious and unidentifiable." As I keep telling you, I have NO POV on this subject, but you obviously do, and it isn't letting you remain neutral. A disagreement is not vandalism, and you know it. -- Zoe


 * "Unidentifiable" is fine, I think, but "mysterious" is definitely not.


 * Whoever claimed that disagreements are vandalism? Not I. But wiping out 75% of an article at first looked a bit like vandalism! I just don't think you have yet responded to my specific points, nor to the points in the material which I added. (Material, by the way, which is agreed upon by the vast majority of medical doctors and scientists!)  This subject is a scientific, historic and religious issue, but you seem to be overlooking the science, and even Palmer's own 18th century religious views. What is left?  A discussion of your own theory of chiropractice. RK

I've taken it to the mailing list, where others with less of an axe to grind can see if you or I is more NPOV. -- Zoe


 * Subluxation is a simple term... if you guys actually looked it up in a dictionary.. its meaning is given...  no doubt its used in pseudo-science variants of chiropractive medicine as well as the legitimate ones. For the rest of the article, deal with chiropractic medicine as a science and as a healing art, and leave all extra-ordinary claims for a subheader of 'pseudoscience' or non-scientific healing arts, etc...-SV


 * Should your changes be ported to the subluxation article, too? SCCarlson

A discrace
The article as it stands is way out of line. As it stands, it's a disgrace to Wikipedia. It reads like chiropody is some kind of weirdo cult. We are talking about a branch of medicine that had thousands of practioners in dozens, maybe hundreds of countries around the world, that is regulated by governments to ensure profesional standards (just like dentistry, to name only one), that is taught as a five year course in outstanding universities like RMIT and the University of Sydney, that health care insuracnce funds and government medical subsidies pay out for as a matter of routine, that general practictioners refer paitents to as routine. Better to nuke the page and start afresh. Tannin 15:12 Mar 16, 2003 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but what you call "way out of line" is called by the rest of us mainstream science. You obviously have littlke knowlesdge of the field or of the scientific method. Please underatand: These are not just about Palmer's bizarre religious claims (which I will amplify, because no one here seems to know anything about them) but rather, about the physical and medical claims that are being made by chiropracters.  We cannot allow people to push pseudo-scientific claims and religious claims as facts. That violates our NPOV policy. I do note that your response to me ignores every one of the facts I mentioned; your argument is only that it "must" be reliable because thousands of people are involved in it. That is nonsense. If that were true, then we'd still be using leeches to treat the flu, because "thousands of doctors" do it! RK

And the original article (some paragraphs of which we still have) appears to have been take from http://www.straightchiropractic.com/language_of_straight_chiropracti.htm. Tannin is right; we have no article now. -- Toby 19:25 Mar 16, 2003 (UTC)


 * Uh, permission was explicitly given to use this information! Please don't falsely accuse me of copyright infringement. RK


 * Glad to hear it. It's good practice to document that fact on the talk page. Of course, I never actually accused anybody of copyright infringement, since I didn't know for sure. And I certainly didn't accuse you, unless you're 213.65.123.104. -- Toby 05:56 Mar 20, 2003 (UTC)

Requests for comments on RK
Requests for comment/RK has been created as structured way to gather support in the Wikipedian community for action to be taken against user:RK for his consistent use of aggressive editing tactics that are counter productive to the development of high quality encyclopedic articles. Now, is your chance to voice your grievances against user:RK.

Please take a few minutes of your time to air your comments. Feel free to expand the list of problem areas by adding problems or grievences of your own. At least two users must document and certify my efforts in Requests for comment/RK. If the listing is not certified within 48 hours of listing, it will be removed. -- John Gohde, aka Mr-Natural-Health 14:20, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * After deletion by User:RK I have restored this section so that this issue can be aired out. Fred Bauder 03:08, Apr 13, 2004 (UTC)