Talk:Choi Young-jae

Acceptance Note
As per discussion, the other members of the group have articles, so the lead singer should also have an article. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:25, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Copied from my talk page. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:27, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

About Draft:Youngjae (South Korean singer)
Thank you for the review of the draft:Youngjae (South Korean singer). I would like to ask you some points about the reasons of rejection.

You or the reviewer indicated "the notability." GOT7 has grown a popular music group that gains 9th concert income in the US this year. They had gained furthermore attendance through the world tour this summer as well. There had been biograghy lines about each of GOT7 members in GOT7 wiki page, but they were deleted on 2017-10-24 because of  (→‎Members: removing irrelevant content per Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Korea/Popular_culture#Members_sections) So we needed to prepare other pages to supplement the members' information.

As for "reliable sources", indeed there are less sources written in English, but that is because GOT7 is from Asia and is spreading to other areas. This Youngjae's draft is prepared by volunteers from multiple countries. We searched for reliable sources in several languages (Korean, Japanese, Chinese, and so on) and selected topics which have English sources as well. So please don't regard these sources as counterfeit even though we are from non English-speaking world. We already have Youngjae's wiki page in such languages or even in EU, you might think that is enough. But for other, non-native people, it is hard to read those pages even if they use Google Translation Function which is in progress. K-POP has been popular and spreading to the world recently, there is certainly the need for Youngjae's page from the English-speaking world as well as non English-speaking world. That is the reason why we need the Youngjae's English page. Please reveiw it again.Piano coffee (talk) 09:18, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 * User:Piano coffee - In reviewing the GOT7 article again, I see that the approach taken has been to give each of the members of the group an article, and that five of them do have articles. So I think that I agree that Youngjae should also have an article.
 * I don't understand the issue about counterfeit sources. I didn't state that concern.  Where was it stated?  If I didn't state it, discussing it with me seems like a straw man.  I am aware that sources can be in any language if they are reliable.  Robert McClenon (talk) 03:01, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your response, but I still don't understand which sentences or references you regard as the reason of decline from your answer. Not "that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of music-related topics). ", or " I am aware that sources can be in any language if they are reliable. " = counterfeit, I thought so. A straw man? I don't know how come from the lines above, I don't want to mess your place with a word game. Actually which sentence should we modify or delete? Please indicate them if you are not a straw man.Piano coffee (talk) 08:13, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I still do not entirely understand your concerns. I declined the draft because I did not think that there was enough information about Youngjae to justify a stand-alone article.  The templates state standard Wikipedia policy on sources.  I did not have any specific concern about sources, but about the amount of coverage and the need for a separate article.  Did you notice above that I then said that if five of the members of the group have their own articles, I agreed that it would be appropriate to have an article for Youngjae?  I agreed that a separate article for Youngjae would be a good idea.  Did you understand that?  Robert McClenon (talk) 20:19, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I never referred to counterfeit sources. I don't know why you mentioned counterfeit sources.  I did refer to reliable sources, and I said that reliable sources can be in English or in any language (which includes Korean, Chinese, and Japanese).  Robert McClenon (talk) 20:19, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
 * If you still do not understand, maybe you should consider editing another language version of Wikipedia. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:19, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Once again, I agreed that a separate article for Youngjae would be a good idea. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:19, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, now I understand what you mean. I thought you were worrying about the sources as well, as it is written in the template. I had explained why we need English version already. Please let me know how to resubmit the draft, as there is such sentence "Please note that if the issues are not fixed, the draft will be rejected again." on the top part of the draft. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Piano coffee (talk • contribs) 03:30, 13 September 2018 (UTC) Do we have to wait about 2 months again? Piano coffee (talk) 03:35, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 15 September 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: MOVED to Choi Young-jae as proposed. Unanimous, primarily per WP:MONONYM. (non-admin closure) В²C ☎ 20:19, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Youngjae (South Korean singer) → Choi Young-jae – Per WP:NCP. The articles of idols without a stage name were created including the last name too, like for the members of Apink, Girl's Generation and Exo. ChoHyeri (talk) 13:11, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose: the article itself says "better known by the mononym Youngjae". The better known name is ipso facto the WP:COMMONNAME. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 21:29, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Actually support per WP:MONONYM. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 11:51, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Support. The proposed form is our standard format for Korean names. The Forbes article gives this name as "Choi Youngjae." That is the only quality English-language source I saw in the reference section. Celebs are all "better known" by shortened forms. Donald Trump is better known as "Trump," but that's not the title of his article. Nine Zulu queens (talk) 22:48, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Support per Nine Zulu queens and WP:MONONYM (don't use a first name (even if unambiguous) for an article title if the last name is known and fairly often used). Given that B.A.P (South Korean band) also has a member known mononymously as Youngjae, the first name isn't unambiguous either, even with a parenthetical disambiguator. 59.149.124.29 (talk) 11:21, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Support for the same reason our article on Oprah Winfrey isn't just called Oprah Lovesaver (talk) 00:39, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Support either is fine if readers find him easily.Piano coffee (talk) 06:28, 21 September 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.