Talk:Cholecystectomy

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Drus1a.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): SUJesse, Drus1a. Peer reviewers: UCSFMS3T, Yaya.wu.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 19:01, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): TimFutureSurgeon, Nspitzer16. Peer reviewers: Ksmcnally, Msmith191.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 17:35, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

final paragraph
I would like to see the final paragraph in this article substantiated "Once a gallbladder is removed it is important to be on bile acid supplements. They need to be taken with every meal in which fat is consumed otherwise your fats will not be properly emulsified and absorbed." I could only find one source on the web making this claim and it did not cite any sources. I think this claim should be substantiated or removed. Asturnut (talk) 04:13, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

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information in this article appears to be outdated
Some of the information in this article appears to be outdated. The primary source for this article seems to be this document, which appears to be at least 12 years old. (Its most recent reference is from 1992). Specific concerns are as follows:
 * I believe, based on personal experience, that the rate of conversion to open cholecystectomy is lower than 5%, in the past decade surgeons have gotten much better at this procedure.
 * It is not my understanding that cholecystectomy is indicated only by the presence of gall stones. I have heard surgeons, on a routine basis, give cholecystitis (inflammation of the gall bladder) as the pre-operative diagnosis for cholecystectomies.

My opinions are based on over a decade of assisting surgeons as a Surgical Technologist. However, I am not a physician and do not have the formal training with which to refute the statements in the articles from personal knowledge, nor do I have easy access to the relevant research materials, so I am unwilling to change documented statements without a stronger or more recent authority. Dsmdgold 02:42, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * I have heard surgeons state that the non-operative treatments for gall stones have been shown not to be effective, and that the removal of the gall bladder is the standard of care for the treatment of gall stones
 * The training of general surgeons has incorporated laparoscopic techniques for over a decade. And, so far as I know, institutions no longer keep separate credentialing procedures for laparoscopic surgery.

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I mostly agree on the first three points you make, and as for the last one, I don't know. I guess it varies from             place to place.

The conversion to open cholecystectomy is also made when stones have made their way outside the bladder and when the anatomy is unclear, and the surgeon told me that it's about 5-10% of the operations they do that they have to convert.. So that number isn't really bad..

The standard care for treatment of cholecystitis and gallstones is nowadays a cholecystectomy. But only if you've had problems with the stones. If they're just there and don't make any noise, they will probably not be removed.. --HenrikP 16:47, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

cholecystectomy and digestion
Is there anyone out there that can answer the following question for me: How does a cholecystectomy affect digestion?


 * Aside from disruptions (e.g. ileus) that are common post-op in the first few days with any abdominal surgery, there is a period of adjustment after a cholecystectomy; diarrhea is common and may last for 3-4 weeks. Pain is also common, but that ought to be well controlled with analgesics.
 * Aside from diarrhea, if the person previously associated pain with eating or frequently got pain at night (several hours after eating), they'll feel relieved that they won't have it. (Classically, pain starts several hours after a meal in cholecystitis and is especially bad after a fatty meal.) Feel free to update the article with any other info you find... it could use some improvement. Nephron T|C 03:01, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The liver makes a little bile all the time. Normally the bile goes to the gall bladder. The gall bladder holds onto the bile. Eating fatty food makes the gall bladder put all the bile in the intestines. Bile dissolves the fat. If you don't have a gall bladder then the liver puts bile into the intestines. The intestines don't hold onto it. You can't digest a lot of fat at once anymore. If you eat too much fat then you will get diarrhea. It's okay to eat fatty food very slowly. Then the liver's bile can keep up. 76.185.59.253 (talk) 08:20, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

tachycardia after cholecystectomy
I have a close friend who after her cholecystectomy is experiencing tachycardia.

She has to take medication to control this and also experiences poor circulation, occasionally blueness of the lips and fingertips / nails. She is always very cold now and pale. But the medication she takes now controls the heart problems. She is only 23 and this has only started after her operation.

Does anyone know what could cause increased heart rate and poor circulation after having the gallbladder removed?

Adamld85 23:58, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

It sounds to me that these two condition are most likely to be two separate condition and is not related. There is no physiological or pathological cause that i can think of to account for "tachycardia" and "poor circulation" after a cholecystectomy.

Note also that wikipedia is not a place for medical consultation and my comment serves only as a comment and NOT a piece of medical advice. Consult a doctor if necessary. Again: no piece of information on wikipedia should be used as MEDICAL ADVICE.

bubu~ 06:39, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

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new approach for cholesystectomy
I noticed reference to a new approach for cholesystectomy, single incision laparoscopic surgery (SILS). For the record, this approach, which seems to be catching on like wildfire, goes by at least five popular acronyms and about a dozen that may be lesser known. For example, laparoendoscopic single site surgery (LESS), single port access (SPA), single access surgery (SAS), natural orifice transumbilical surgery (NOTUS), and single port laparoscopy (SPL). While most of these approaches use the umbilicus as the entry point, some involve a single incision elsewhere. Many surgeons consider this single small incision approach more accessible than natural orifice translumninal endoscopic surgery (NOTES), and although they haven't proven yet that it is a more pain sparing approach than traditional laparoscopy, it is superior cosmetically at the very least.

ποια φαρμακα απαγορευονται μετα την χολοκυστεκτομη
εχω κανει επεμβασει χολης και ολα καλα μεχρι ωρας! αυτο που θελω να ρωτησω ειναι... αν μπορω να παρω καποια χαπια αδυνατισματος τα ΛΙΠΟΤΕΧ γιατι καπου διαβασα οτι αν εχεις προβλημα με την χολη, δεν μπορεις να τα παρεις. εγω που την εχω βγαλει? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.107.96.95 (talk) 19:28, 25 March 2012 (UTC)


 * In case anyone was wondering what this said, Google Translate:


 * Which drugs are prohibited after cholecystectomy


 * I've done surgery Holli So far so good time! What I want to ask is ... if I can get some slimming pills the LIPOTECH because I read somewhere that if you have problems with the bile, I can not get it. I send that I have; 207.181.225.167 (talk) 02:53, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Diarrhea
"As many as 20% of patients develop chronic diarrhea." The sources listed don't seem to actually support that figure.

Also, the article on gallstones says "...a 10% risk of developing chronic diarrhea."

Surely the two articles should agree on the percentage, whatever it is. Jaydeecw (talk) 02:45, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

To do: discuss open chole
no page for open chole. redirects here and needs to be discussed as an alternative (if unclear critical view, as part of liver txp) BakerStMD 16:30, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

NEJM
10.1056/NEJMra1411372 - doesn't discussed traditional open cholecystectomy much! JFW &#124; T@lk  20:37, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

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WikiProject Medicine
As part of the UCF College of Medicine Wiki Project we suggest the following changes to this article:

- Update the references to include up-to-date information, more secondary sources instead of primary, and statistics on procedure conversion rate, complications and prognosis.\ - We will try to update some of the photos to make the article more clear to laypeople.

- We will re-write and summarize key points of the contents to replace current lead section. - Expand and edit the indications sections to include contraindications.

- In laparoscopic cholecystectomy section, we intend to clean up the last paragraph regarding comparison of SILS to traditional laparoscopic cholecystectomy to make it easier to read and understand for the layperson.

- In the open cholecystectomy section, we will include reference to confirm complications due to open chole.

- The procedural risks and complications section needs references confirming the statements made as well as editing to make the points in the paragraph more clear.TimFutureSurgeon (talk) 19:50, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

UCF Wikiproject user review
Based off the original plan, it looks like many of the stated goals were accomplished. A couple that are specific that I noticed upon looking at the changes were: - Update the references to include up-to-date information, more secondary sources instead of primary, and statistics on procedure conversion rate, complications and prognosis. ✔ - We will try to update some of the photos to make the article more clear to laypeople. ✔ - In laparoscopic cholecystectomy section, we intend to clean up the last paragraph regarding comparison of SILS to traditional laparoscopic cholecystectomy to make it easier to read and understand for the layperson. ✔ - We will re-write and summarize key points of the contents to replace current lead section. ✔ - The procedural risks and complications section needs references confirming the statements made as well as editing to make the points in the paragraph more clear ✔

Overall it looks like both UCF editors and other editors worked together to improve the overall look of the article as well as adding some up to date references and information. New sections were added it appears, including a History, Biopsy, Risks and Contraindications sections. Since these sections are so new there is more work to be done to expand upon them, but it is a great start. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ksmcnally (talk • contribs) 07:38, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

Peer Review for UCF WikiProject Medicine
Great work! The introduction section is clear and concise, giving a brief overview of main topics. The picture of gallbladder anatomy is perfect for this article. Under the medical use section the terms symptomatic gallstones or biliary colic could possibly be added. These indications are covered using the other terms however may be a little more comprehensible to the common population. There is also a Wiki page on biliary colic that may provide additional information to the reader. The contraindications section is a good addition. You could possibly add some relative contraindications to laparoscopic surgery. The section on single incision surgery is very easy to read and comprehend. Overall the editors followed and accomplished their intended plan to improve this article and make it more comprehensible. Msmith191 (talk) 13:45, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject Medicine, round 2 - UCSF cohort, March 2018
Over the coming weeks we (SUJesse and Drus1a) will be building on the work done by colleagues at UCF by adding additional information and sections to this article.

(1) "Medical Use" section will be changed by Drus1a to "Indications" and subsections will be added with info about common indications and links to applicable existing Wiki articles on these topics. Common indications:
 * Biliary colic
 * Acute cholecystitis
 * Carcinoma of the gallbladder

(2) "Procedure" section will be clarified by SUJesse with additional data from the 2006 Cochrane review comparing open vs. laparoscopic techniques. Subsection on advanced minimally invasive techniques, (Minilap, SILS, and NOTES) will also be added  Information to free patients resources (ex: handout for patients about the procedure by the American Academy of Surgeons ) will also be added.

(3) A new section on "Alternatives to surgery" will be added by Drus1a, with sub-sections including:
 * Watchful waiting
 * Stone retrieval by endoscopy (ERCP)
 * Cholecystostomy (plan to include data from the 2013 Cochrane review: Percutaneous cholecystostomy for high-risk surgical patients with acute calculous cholecystitis. )

(4) "History" section will be expanded by SUJesse to include more information about the development and acceptence of laparascopic technique. Information about other procedures such as chololithotomy will be removed for clarity

Timeline for these activities:
 * Check all citations and identify specific points for improvement or addition by Wednesday 3/14
 * Complete primary edit by Friday 3/16 for peer editing week of 3/19
 * Respond to peer edits with revisions by Wednesday 3/28
 * Final edits completed by EOD Friday 3/30

Examples of "B" quality surgical articles (for reference)
 * Tonsillectomy
 * Vasectomy
 * Oophorectomy
 * Hysterectomy

-- Drus1a (talk) 17:45, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

SUJesse (talk) 16:57, 14 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Have adjusted the formatting to better match WP:MEDMOS.
 * Medical uses and indications have similar meanings IMO. Consistency between topics is important so not sure about changing it. Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 17:48, 14 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Want to add diagrams of different "Alternatives to Surgery" but having trouble creating these. Also added a table with prevalence of common complications - is this okay to do given the the article I took it from is not open access? I did not copy the table completely and made sure to cite it, but still unsure. -- Drus1a (talk) 19:48, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Peer Review UCSF WikiMed (Drusia)
Hey Drusia,

Great work with your edits, and thank you for your time and commitment to this article! I reviewed your “Indications” section and “Alternatives to Surgery,” and they are both well-organized, clear, and easy to understand. Before I comment on those individually, I would like to add that I agree that the title “Indications” seems more accurate than “Medical Use” – considering it in context of a sentence, one would say “these are the indications for surgery” rather than “these are the medical uses of surgery.”

Here are my suggestions for each part!

Indications:
 * The image is great but the titles are really hard to read. Is it possible to edit it (just by adding white textboxes with the words typed out instead of handwritten). I would probably also move it down to the procedure section
 * I would mention that biliary colic is caused by the gallbladder contracting and usually happens after meals

Alternatives:
 * Rather than bullets, I would suggest making three subheadings (Conservative, ERCP, Cholecystostomy) and putting the info under each subheading.
 * In the conservative management section, I would add a few words to the end of the second sentence to say what the symptoms of gallstones are
 * If you have the time, I would consider adding an image for the ERCP section
 * In the cholecystostomy section, I would say that it’s a temporary measure and that definitive treatment is still gallbladder removal. I also saw this in an emedicine article which may be helpful to add: “In a retrospective study of patients with acute cholecystitis who were at very high surgical risk, Furtado et al found that although percutaneous cholecystostomy was a life-saving maneuver, it gave rise to significant morbidity, with a 44% rate of choledocholithiasis, a 27% rate of tube dislodgment, and a 23% rate of postoperative abscess.”

Again, great job with the article! — Preceding unsigned comment added by UCSFMS3T (talk • contribs) 19:26, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Peer Review for WikiMed
Overview

I mainly focused on the wording and the references during this peer review. Love the way the way the sentences are formed! Well written, clear, and you guys overall avoided too dense of a terminology. Also noticed you guys avoided using words like "patients" and instead used words like people, which is awesome.

The structure is really nice and flowed well and logically, making things easy to find. Also really like the links to other wiki pages.

There were 2-3 references that were a little outdated and I tried to find alternate or additional links. I do feel that the sections on the technique of laparoscopy and open chole where written with too much jargon. Simplifying the language would be helpful.

I loved this page and felt it was very thorough and well done!

My opinion on wording (take with grain of salt):

- For Lead and in Medical Uses, maybe mention a little more detail on what is symptomatic gallstones. For example, pain and inflamed gallstones

- In acute cholecystitis, I got the sense that infection is synonymous with acute chole (which sometimes doesn't come with infection), you guys could add a modifier like "sometimes"

- The description of the pathophysiology of cholangitis and gallstone pancreatitis felt a little dense to me. Maybe you guys can just mention that it's a blockage in a duct that connects both gallbladder and pancreas (the links out can give more detail)

- I also feel the description of the laparoscopy and open chole has a little too much jargon. Maybe translate some terms like fundus and superiorly. Or you guys can even simplify the whole paragraph even further.

- I think it might be good to mention where the large data is coming from. In the other complications section, maybe mention it's from North America.

Things on references/links:

- For the post-cholecystectomy syndrome, the reference is from 2010. I found one from 2018 if you want to use it, https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gallbladder-removal/risks/

- I found an additional and more recent reference for acalculous cholecystitis if you guys want to use it, http://www.cghjournal.org/article/S1542-3565(09)00880-5/fulltext

- You can also link chronic cholecystitis, I found a wiki link, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholecystitis#Chronic_cholecystitis

- For citation 30, I found a more updated citation, https://www.cancer.org/cancer/gallbladder-cancer/treating/surgery.html

Great work guys! Yaya.wu (talk) 06:10, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: TCU SOM Wikipedia Elective Spring 2024
— Assignment last updated by Peqp123 (talk) 00:25, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Looking to add something on "bail-out" procedures; sub-total cholecystectomy — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peqp123 (talk • contribs) 00:27, 5 February 2024 (UTC)