Talk:Chris Ferguson

Comments

 * I edited the page about the reason for his nickname. In addition to his hair and beard the page referred to his hat, yet I don't recall very many paintings of Jesus with a cowboy hat on.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg 07:40, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * It's a little known fact that Jesus loved gambling and could in fact cut vegetables with his card throwing ability! J Shultz 17:31, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

A factoid is something that isn't true, while a factlet is true. Don't change it back anymore.

Chris Ferguson's nickname
The use of the nickname "Jesus" is extremely disrespectful and offensive to many people, therefore I have removed it from the Wikipedia page. Including it prominently at the top of the page as part of his name is a form of publicity, which wikipedia cannot endorse. Whether or not it should be mentioned later in the article is debatable. While I know that Ferguson is an atheist and there are many others like this, the least that a rational, logical person could do is respect the religious beliefs of others. Professional poker player Daniel Negreanu has also mentioned that he finds the nickname offensive.
 * It's his nickname, whether it offends you or anyone else or not. 2005 01:07, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Saying whether is it offensive or not is POV. Some may find it offensive however wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and facts which are rather important to the article should be added, even if it may offend people. If it does offend you then I suggest you speak to Chris and make him change his nickname, however the fact that his nickname is Jesus cannot be changed, whether it is liked or not.

As I was reading this article just now, I found it odd that his nickname wasn't mentioned, and came to the discussion page specifically because of that. Every time you see this guy on TV, he is referred to as Chris "Jesus" Ferguson. It has been exactly that way for almost a decade now, so I suggest that it should be mentioned in the body of the article. I mean, I am offended by Hitler, but I would not presume to make his article easier to swallow. Yes.. I just Godwined the Chris Fergusuon talk page. Deal with it.74.182.8.21 (talk) 14:04, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The nickname is mentioned prominently twice already, including a section titled "Nickname". 2005 (talk) 23:02, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Christopher Ferguson
Chris Ferguson is sometimes used to refer to Christopher Ferguson, an astronaut who flew on STS-115. The fourth result in a Google search for "chris ferguson" links to the astronaut's biography page. Perhaps this article could use a disambig notice at the top. PeepP 18:14, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Agree: this is a common pratice i.e. Gavin Smith, I will add it. -- Sirex 98  20:51, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Playing style
2005, why did you remove this sentence: "He rarely speaks at the table, and adopts an identical, motionless pose in most situations where he could be "read"." ? In "Aces and Kings" [ http://www.amazon.com/Aces-Kings-Million-Dollar-Strategies-Greatest/dp/1932958002 ], it is specifically stated that he doesn't speak in order to prevent being read. Do you have some reason to doubt this? If so, please use the fact template, rather than just removing text, thanks. Stevage 05:27, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Chris talks well above average at the table. I have no clue what some book says, but lets keep the silliness out of the article please.  Please don't add assertions to articles about personal behavior, especially something that could never be a "fact" one way or another.  Please also refer to WP:BLP about criteria for biography articles. 2005 06:13, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * "Well above average"[citation needed]. I don't think he says a single word on High Stakes Poker. Aces and Kings p234: "He oozed intensy and a kind of physical gravitas that worked like a radiation shield to keep opponents from cuddling up and table-talking between hands. Whenever a player asked about anything more involving than the weather, Ferguson buried his mouth inside praying fingers and refused to answer. His reticence was right on. Against astute players - who read voices as casually as most people read the Sunday funnies - responding to even the most innocuous question can be the equivalent of turning up your cards for an opponent's enlightenment. 'Somebody wants to know how much I bet, let the dealer tell him', Ferguson says."
 * p245: "But before hitting the tournament circuit, Ferguson decided it was imperative that he should not appear overtly brainy. Thus the louche western-style getu-up. It was as calculated a move as some of his seemingly audacious raises. 'Usually academics are the ones who can get away with having long hair; and I wanted to hide the fact that I was an academic', says Ferguson. 'Plus I liked that the hat and sunglasses made me look tough.'"
 * Discussing the fashion habits of an author might be silly. But describing the approach an extremely successful player takes to the table, both in dress (especially when as calculated as this) and demeanour, is neither silly nor remotely in violation of WP:BLP. Remember, we're not talking about what he does in private. We're discussing what he does in his professional life, on television, and how it helps him in his career. With solid, dead-tree references. Any further objections? Stevage 11:16, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Are you actually serious about this? Your observation of him on High Stakes Poker is no more relevant than having sat at a table with him as he discussed Roshambo for 45 minutes. WP:BLP is very clear that any negative OR positive pov should be removed on sight from bio articles.  As for the laughable anecdotal passage in the book, c'mon.  But more to the point, asserting he "rarely" speaks at the table is nonsense.  What is rarely?  Once a minute, once a day, once a year?  Stick with facts please.  If you want to say he is generally quiet, then say so.  If you want to say he tries to not give off physical or verbal tells, then say so.  But "rarely" and "identical" are nonsense that should be removed on sight. 2005 22:40, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I confess that I don't understand what you're trying to achieve here. We're working on an article about Chris Ferguson, a very successful poker player. We have the sourced, non-defamatory fact that his general demeanour is quiet, as compared to the voluble styles of, say Daniel Negreanu, Mike Matusow or, going back, Puggy Pearson. You seem convinced that this statement is in violation of BLP, but won't specify which part it breaches, or whether it's supposedly "negative" or "positive POV". What is your point? And what is your point about attempting to quantify "rarely"? The guy doesn't talk much. That doesn't need quantification in syllables per minute. Here's another source: - "circumspect and inscrutable". Or this:  "Chris Ferguson’s style at the table is perfect. He sits there very quietly, watching absolutely everything, but not giving anything away." Now, are you going to allow me to add this rather uncontroversial, relevant fact to the article, or shall we keep wasting time here? Stevage 14:52, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * You are the one trying to achieve something here. I only want the article kept within the WP:BLP guideline, and common article structure, that is, no absurd hyperbole.  "We have the sourced, non-defamatory fact that his general demeanour is quiet..."  then say THAT.  Why would you add that nonseical bit from before?  His style is generally quiet.  "The guy doesn't talk much."  Nonsense.  He talks above average.  He is generally quiet, but he talks all the time.  This is where you get into problems based on your observation on a TV show.  Put another way, Ferguson is front man for one of the largest online poker sites.  Do you honestly think he can sit at a non-TV table and not get bombarded about questions about it?  C'mon, the guy is forced by politeness to talk well above average.  "circumspect and inscrutable"... then say THAT.  Now once again, do not add the nonsense line to the article.  It plainly violates BLP, you have to know that.  Ferguson is not a statute. He speaks.  He does not look exactly the same all the time.  Say that he is quiet, "circumspect and inscrutable" and even even-tempered.  Say what is both reality and what can be cited.  Do NOT say nonsense about "identical" poses or that he "rarely" speaks.  Hyperbole has no place in an encyclopedia, especially when it is obviously false on its face. 2005 21:29, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Did you somehow interpret my statement ("He rarely speaks at the table") as implying that Ferguson is a mute who is incapable of speech even when away from the poker table? The sources are consistent that he is quiet and avoids unnecessary speech when involved in serious games against good opponents. "Do you honestly think he can sit at a non-TV table and not get bombarded about questions about it?" - if you're saying, if he finds himself on a weak table with a bunch of tourists who ask him dumb questions, then sure, he could probably show them a hole card and still win. But we're talking about his professional career as a serious player. You keep claming that "he talks above average" but don't have a single source to demonstrate that. The statement is not absurd, it's not hyperbole, and it is well within WP:BLP. "He does not look exactly the same all the time." - what are you contesting exactly? His dress? His demeanour? In serious hands with a lot at stake, while for his opponent, that's what he frequently does. Why are you taking exception to these basic facts? Stevage 04:47, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I added a line that says what it appears you are attempting to say, but without the hyperbole. 2005 07:55, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Dude, "He rarely speaks at the table". Not hyperbole. You are wrong. You were wrong. You were a WP:DICK. Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. Stevage 15:08, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
 * "Dude" put the rude comments in the hyperbole drawer and leave them out of articles. The line was unencyclopedic nonsense.  The genuine point could have been made without exaggeration.  Please do that in the future. 2005 21:53, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Which online server? $1 to $20k?
In the article, it is mentioned "He is also renowned for having painstakingly turned $1 into more than $20,000 on an online poker site over six months, as a personal challenge." However it does not say on which server, does anyone know?

--Chuck SMITH 23:14, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Full Tilt, it's in the "Pro Tips" archive (#100, ironically) and I have added the cite to the article text. 68.149.190.31 06:38, 6 June 2007 (UTC) ^^ PS: many thanks to whoever "cleaned up" my cite/site link :) 68.149.190.31 03:42, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Why was "claims" added to the mention of both challenges? Is this really in dispute, even with the citation that says the proceeds $10,000 are going to charity? Mbelisle 08:22, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * WP:BLP would require removing the line if stated as fact. Obviously the chances of independantly reliably sourcing this are close to zero, and an encyclopedia doesn't just print something as fact just because a person says something about themself. 2005 09:23, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The source as linked is Full Tilt Poker, which is not Chris Ferguson saying something about himself. Sure, he's involved with the company, but a company making a statement is not the same as an individual saying something. To be accurate and address your concern about verifiability, I changed it to say "Full Tilt Poker claims that he..." Note that that's the only thing in that paragraph that's sourced in any way. I don't see why it gets treated as more questionable than his ability  to slice melons with playing cards. Mbelisle 08:52, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Saying Full Tilt says it is fine. 2005 09:34, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Citation #12 $0-10,000 Challenge
The statement "Despite passing the $10k target the challenge continues and was at one point over $20k" is contradicted by the page it quotes: "In September of 2007 Chris finally achieved his $0 to $10,000 goal. Always true to his word, he donated his winnings to the Save the Children Foundation upon reaching the $10K mark." Nowhere on the page does it mention that his bankroll for this challenge exceeded $20k, only that he reached the $10k mark. I will leave the quote unchanged for now in case somebody has more they'd like to add regarding this challenge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.108.114.52 (talk) 01:41, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

2008 NBC Headsup! Jesus FTW!
nh, sir -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Heads-Up_Poker_Championship#2008 199.214.26.240 (talk) 17:41, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Main Event Win
Is it worth mentioning that he bad beat his opponent on the river to win the main event? I think so.--UhOhFeeling (talk) 06:05, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * er no... I know the question was asked several months ago... but that's poker. I assume that every World Champion at some point got lucky... it's part of the game.--- I'm Spartacus!  NO! I'm Spartacus! 19:57, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Poker on IRC?
"In college he honed his skill on IRC playing poker for play money in chat rooms."

How does one play poker on IRC? Seriously, I would like to see a source and explanation for this. Furthermore, it is blasphomous to apply the new generation "chat room" term from webchats to IRC which has channels instead. --84.249.164.59 (talk) 10:40, 27 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Take a look at IRC poker. 2005 (talk) 10:49, 27 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Generally an IRC bot managed the game. PBot was one of the more well known poker bots. Tothwolf (talk) 11:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

athiest or not?
I don't know if Chris Ferguson is or not however the source cited on here is from a blog which gets It's info from a different blog. I don't think that is reliable. --24.119.32.80 (talk) 02:31, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Related to Stanford Wong?
Stanford Wong is the pen name of a John Ferguson. Are John Ferguson and Chris Ferguson related? They are both in math, computers and gambling. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.233.79.83 (talk) 19:39, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Image
Is there a reason why the image is sideways? Wouldn't it be better to rotate it 90 degrees? --OGoncho (talk) 21:10, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Lederer comments
"In a late 2012 interview for PokerNews.com, Howard Lederer suggested that Ferguson was against paying dividends to Full Tilt's shareholders, believing they would weaken the company. Lederer said, further, that Ferguson cares more about his African charity than becoming wealthier. #ref http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g1wFJx461U&t=22m44s /ref#"

My reasons behind believe this doesn't belong on the page is that, due to WP:BLP, verifiability is incredibly important. Doubt has been cast on many things Lederer has said in his interviews and no other person (including Ferguson himself) have verified Lederer's claims. JaeDyWolf ~ Baka-San (talk) 21:48, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, when do primary source interviews become legitimate sources for wikipedia biographies? Do the interviewees have to be under oath or something?Kahnsky (talk) 22:17, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * See, Biographies of living persons AND PSTS - You  really  can  04:16, 12 January 2013 (UTC)


 * A fair point... but I'd argue that it's the specific interviewee himself, who isn't necessarily somebody to trust when discussing such a matter, coupled with the absence of any input from Ferguson himself that makes the statement unfit for a BLP article in my view. Youtube as a citation link is generally frowned upon, too. I guess this is just a case that strikes me as quite dodgy, though I'll admit that that makes it subjective; I'd like to know what other editors think. JaeDyWolf ~ Baka-San (talk) 00:47, 11 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Your question is best asked here WP:BLPN. 2005 (talk) 20:37, 11 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Cheers, 2005, I'll sort that. I also think it's important that other poker-minded users offer their opinion, considering that whether Lederer's comments are valid or not requires knowledge of Lederer himself. I'll alert those I think might be interested. JaeDyWolf ~ Baka-San (talk) 03:28, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Opinions which make contentious claims about living people are deprecated as sources. Youtube is specifically iffy as a source per WP:RS. All told - leave it out. Collect (talk) 13:22, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It think that this video of Lederer could be used as a valid primary source under certain circumstances but I don't think this is one for a variety of reasons including: 1) its fan trivia 2) its a side comment to a long discussion etc.-- — Keithbob • Talk  • 23:21, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

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