Talk:Chris McDermott

Blanking of several sections
and, let's talk about why you want to remove this content before you remove it again. Your last edit summary said the info was already on the page, but I don't really see that. valereee (talk) 12:11, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
 * It's not as detailed in the infobox, and you've removed the reflist holder in addition to blanking the sections. valereee (talk) 11:28, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Violation of policy re BLP
So when I put the reference section back in, it point out a major problem -- this article is completely, and I mean completely, unreferenced. As a WP:BLP it absolutely needs references for anything that could possibly be considered contentious or an invasion of privacy, such as his WP:DOB. I'm going to go through and switch that to simply the year, but if you find a reference that proves it is available in WP:RELIABLE sources the full date can be added back in. valereee (talk) 15:03, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
 * re: the afltables.com site -- are we sure that's a reliable source? It looks homemade, possibly by a fan rather than a site that receives editorial oversight.  What I mean in this case by reliable is not that they're likely to have their information correct but that if someone were to contact them and say, "Hey, please take my personal information off of your site," they'd absolutely do it?  Because with a BLP for personal info such as DOB, which could be used for identity theft, there's policy that says that if the WP:DOB has been widely published by reliable sources or has been published by a site affilliated with the subject, we can assume the subject does not object and publish.  Otherwise, no.  valereee (talk) 10:52, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The question of whether it's 'reliable enough' for DOB information for BLPs is much more strict than information for non-personal data. That afl.com site may be perfectly reasonable for noncontroversial things like season and career stats.  But if that's the most reliable source there is for DOB, then it probably shouldn't be used on any articles.  But the published encyclopedia source may be good enough -- it would be better if it there were multiple such sources or if there were an affiliated site.  It concerns me that the SNAFL Hall of Fame site does NOT list player birthdates: http://www.sanfl.com.au/hall_of_fame/chris_s_mcdermott/  That would be an affiliated site, but his DOB isn't listed there.  valereee (talk) 11:47, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * It needn't concern you, the deceased players don't have date of births listed either, the website just focuses on playing achievements rather than biographical information. The two additional sources I provided are more than enough. The web link is to the website of the Adelaide Football Club, which he captained. That is an affiliated site and lists his DOB. Jevansen (talk) 12:31, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Finally managed to get to the site and read the article -- hadn't realized afc.com was the adelaide football club, yes, that's an affiliated site so no worries. valereee (talk) 12:49, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Another source for 4th Nov. 63. http://handle.slv.vic.gov.au/10381/129695 (page 16) I can't see any reliable sources for the colour of his undies, so we'd better tiptoe around that very carefully too.

Possible copyvio
http://www.worldlibrary.org/articles/Chris_McDermott has essentially the same article -- it's possible this was copied from Wikipedia, but we'll need to find out. valereee (talk) 15:28, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay, it looks like they're a mirror site -- removing tags.

What does this even mean?
"In November 2014 McDermott made way for former Adelaide Crows dual premiership captain, Mark Bickley." Very obscure language -- I have no idea what it means. Did he get fired? Quit? From which job? The sportscaster one, or what?


 * There are numerous other wording issues. He "chose to stay loyal" and "reap the rewards?" What does it really mean?  Is there a source for these assertions?  And what even is the SA player retention system, and what are those rewards?  He was "chased" by Carlton and "preferred to play in his home state."  Again we need a source for this opinion stuff.  The "unfortunate state" of his nose?  What unfortunate state?  "Life after football"?  It all reads like a sportwriter's column rather than an encyclopedia.   valereee (talk) 15:44, 16 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Wow, you got a lot accomplished during my night! Replying here to your comments on my talk page, so we can keep the discussion in one spot.  So here's my objection to 'he chose to stay loyal':  it's opiniony.  Unless someone else said it, we can't, because we don't know why he stayed with the team.  Could have been loyalty, could have been money, could have been his old granny was living there and he didn't want to leave her.  Wikipedia only knows what happened because other people have reported on it; for purposes of writing a wikipedia article, if no one reliable reports it, it did not happen.    So we have to find someone else who, in a reliable source such as a major newspaper, not a blogger or hobbyist, said he "chose to stay loyal."  And "unfortunate state" of his nose is borderline defamatory -- again, we can only say it if someone else did.  We can report that they said it, and in this case they'd have had to say exactly those words and we'd have to put them into the article as an attributed quote from a named individual.  valereee (talk) 11:03, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay, so that mtv site is a mirror site -- it's got the exact article, probably lifted from wikipedia, and it lists wikipedia as the source. So we can't use them. valereee (talk) 11:33, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

I've found a reference for the line he chose to stay loyal. It's from the Adelaide Football Club, where he played, it's on their Web Site. I'm not sure if that's Wikipedia standard, but it sounds pretty reliable. As for the Broken Nose line I'll keep looking for a reference.SportsEditor518 (talk) 12:20, 17 August 2015 (UTC)


 * , yes, finally got to that site -- that's where the language is coming from, and it's pretty closely paraphrased -- that "chased by Carlton" unless it's a common aussie term seems to be lifted entirely. What does it mean?  That they tried to recruit him?  That they tried to draft him?  That they were courting him?  I'd like to see us find a clearer and less plagiarise-y way of sayign whatever it is they're saying.  valereee (talk) 12:52, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

It's a common phrase in Australian rules football. It means what you said. For example it means trying to recruit someone, by having meetings with them, talk to them on the phone, often in cases give them money, those types of things. It doesn't mean a club recruited someone, it means they were trying. Yeah it's a common phrase in the sport, I think it should be used. SportsEditor518 (talk) 13:18, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

afc.com website?
Are you able to get to that afc.com website right now? I was trying to fix that bare URL for you and when I click on it I keep getting a message saying it's unavailable. valereee (talk) 12:20, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Yeah it's not working on my PC either. You can get to it, if you click on it, and then go to the Address Bar, and delete everything before www, then press Enter, it goes to it. SportsEditor518 (talk) 12:33, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that worked! It seems to have been the https that was causing the problem. valereee (talk) 12:53, 17 August 2015 (UTC)