Talk:Christ myth theory/Sources

This is a list of the notable authors who have advocated for the Christ myth theory in published work and some of those who have weighed in against it, contemporary authors are presented along with their relevant qualifications, positions held, and publications.

Sampling of older authors

 * The Online Book Page; Jesus Christ -- Historicity Public domain books regarding the Historicity of Jesus Christ

Drews, Arthur (1909) The Christ Myth; The main reference work of the Christ Myth theory

Evans, Elizabeth Edson Gibson "The Christ myth" (a snapshot of non scholar views of the idea c1900)

Mangasarian, Managasar Mugwiditch, (1909) [http://www.archive.org/details/truthaboutjesus00mang ''The truth about Jesus. Is he a myth?'' Independent religious society; contributor: Princeton Theological Seminary Library].
 * "A myth is a fanciful explanation of a given phenomenon." [...] "Origin, for instance, in his reply to the rationalist Celsus who questioned the reality of Jesus, instead of producing evidence of a historical nature, appealed to the mythology of the pagans to prove that the story of Jesus was no more incredible than those of the Greek and Roman gods."

Remsburg, John (1909) The Christ.
 * Notable Freethinker book that contains a list that has been used by non-scholars like Lena Einhorn, James Patrick Holding, Hilton Hotema, Jawara D. King, Madalyn Murray O'Hair, M. M. Ninan, and Asher Norman.
 * Even though his list is popular with armchair Christ Myth theorists he felt here was enough evidence to show there was a first century teacher named Jesus.

Robertson, J. M. (John Mackinnon) (1917) The Jesus problem; a restatement of the myth theory

Rossington, Herbert J (1911) [http://www.archive.org/details/didjesusreallyli00ross ''Did Jesus really live? a reply to The Christ myth''] rebuttal to Drews

Schweitzer, Albert (1910) Internet Archive of 1910 version of Quest of the Historical Jesus
 * Long regarded as the definitive counter to the Christ Myth theory.

Comments on the Positions
"It may be remarked, however, that even if it were in the highest degree probable that there was a pre-Christian deity worshiped in Palestine and called Jeshua or Jeshu, it would still be possible that there was a great teacher and healer bearing the same name, who was confounded with that supposed deity." (The Hibbert journal, Volume 9, Issues 3-4 pg 658).

"Drews further suggested that primitive Christianity constituted a syncretistic religion which attributed previously existing religious cult forms to a historical personage whose existence was doubtful." (In His name: comparative studies in the quest for the historical Jesus : life of Jesus research in Germany and America Elisabeth Hurth (1989) pg 231)

Schweitzer and Frazer
"My theory assumes the historical reality of Jesus of Nazareth" Frazer, Sir James George (1913) The golden bough: a study in magic and religion, Volume 9 pg 412

"I especially wanted to explain late Jewish eschatology more thoroughly and to discuss the works of John M. Robertson, William Benjamin Smith, James George Frazer, Arthur Drews, and others, who contested the historical existence of Jesus." (Schweitzer (1931) Out of My Life and Thought page 125)

The searchable reprint of the expanded 1913 The quest of the historical Jesus only confuses matters as the chapter titled "The most recent disputing of the historicity of Jesus" is where Frazer appears (other than in a footnote that pairs him with Robertson and in the index of names).

Doherty, Price, Carrier, Earl-Boyd, and Wells regarding Wells' Jesus Myth (1996) to present position
"The year 1999 saw the publication of at least five books which concluded that the Gospel Jesus did not exist. One of these was the latest book (The Jesus Myth) by G. A. Wells, the current and longstanding doyen of modern Jesus mythicists." Doherty, Earl "Book And Article Reviews: The Case For The Jesus Myth: "Jesus — One Hundred Years Before Christ by Alvar Ellegard" review

Christ-myth theorists like George A. Wells have argued that, if we ignore the Gospels, which were not yet written at the time of the Epistles of Paul, we can detect in the latter a prior, more transparently mythic concept of Jesus, according to which he is imagined as someone like Asclepius, a demigod savior who came to earth in earlier times, healed the sick, and was struck down by the gods but resurrected unto Olympian glory from whence he might still reappear in answer to prayer. The Gospels, Wells argued, have left this raw-mythic Jesus behind, making him a half-plausible historical figure of a recent era." (Price, Robert M (1999) "Of Myth and Men A closer look at the originators of the major religions-what did they really say and do?" Free Inquiry magazine Winter, 1999/ 2000 Volume 20, Number 1)

"G.A Wells is the eminently worthy successor to radical 'Christ myth' theorists..." (Price (2003) back of Can we Trust the New Testament?)

"In every volume Wells reiterates his case for a mythic Jesus, but this is hardly "vain repetition." [...] No, the chastened Wells admitted, there had indeed been a historical wisdom teacher named Jesus, some of whose sayings survive in the Gospels via Q. But this historical Jesus had nothing to do with the legendary savior Jesus whom Paul preached about." (Price, Robert M (2005) "Review of Can We Trust the New Testament?")

"Books by Contemporary Scholars Defending Ahistoricity:

(Carrier, Richard (2006) Did Jesus Even Exist? Stanford University presentation May 30 2006)
 * Arthur Drews, The Christ Myth (1998)
 * Earl Doherty, The Jesus Puzzle: Did Christianity Begin with a Mythical Christ? (1999)
 * Harold Liedner, The Fabrication of the Christ Myth (2000)
 * Robert Price, Deconstructing Jesus (2000) and The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man (2003)
 * Thomas Thompson, The Messiah Myth: The Near Eastern Roots of Jesus and David (2005)
 * George Wells, The Historical Evidence for Jesus (1988); Who Was Jesus? (1989); The Jesus Legend (1993); The Jesus Myth (1998); Can We Trust the New Testament? (2005)" (sic)

"Scholars such a Bruno Bauer, Arther Drews, and G. A. Wells have argued that eh Jesus tradition is virtually--perhaps entirely--fictional in in nature (i.e. "legendary" as we are using the term)" references for Wells are The Historical Evidence for Jesus (1982); The Jesus Legend (1996); and The Jesus Myth (1999)

"In fact, however, I have expressed stated in my books of 1996, 1999, and 2004 that I have repudiated this theory (Christ Myth theory), and now really belong in their category 2. If the reader wishes a brief statement concerning my change of position and the reasons for it—briefer than I give in those three books or in the present one—I can refer him or her to my article "Jesus, Historicity of" in The New Encyclopedia of Unbelief, edited by Tom Flynn." (Wells, G. A. (2009) Cutting Jesus Down to Size. Open Court, pp. 327–328.)

Contemporary authors
This is a list of the notable contemporary authors who have advocated for the Christ myth theory in published work and some of those who have weighed in against it, presented along with their relevant qualifications, positions held, and publications. ---

Pro

 * G.A. Wells (born 1926)


 * Education: Degrees in German, philosophy, and natural science. Phd, specialization unknown.


 * Position: Professor emeritus of German, Birkbeck College, London


 * Relevant specialization: none


 * Relevant publications:
 * The Jesus of the Early Christians (Pemberton 1971)
 * Did Jesus exist? (Prometheus Books 1987)
 * The Jesus Myth (Open Court 1998)
 * Religious Postures: Essays on Modern Christian Apologists and Religious Problems (Open Court 1988)
 * The Historical Evidence for Jesus (Prometheus 1988)
 * Who Was Jesus?: A Critique of the New Testament Record (Open Court 1989)
 * The Jesus Legend (Open Court 1996)
 * Can We Trust the New Testament? (Open Court 2003)
 * Belief and Make-Believe (Open Court 2003)
 * Cutting Jesus Down to Size (Open Court 2009)


 * Basic position: At one time Wells doubted the existence of the historcal Jesus, though he acknowledged that such as a view is "is today almost totally rejected". He has since come to believe that Q is early evidence and now accepts a minimalistic historical Jesus.


 * Views of others: Graham Stanton regarded Well's arguments as the most sophisticated of the Christ myth theorists, though he rejected them. Michael Martin argues that Wells's argument is "sound", though it "may seem ad hoc and arbitrary" and "is controversial and not widely accepted". Robert E. Van Voorst, while noting that Wells was "probably the most able advocate of the nonhistoricity theory", has said that he advocated the theory "not for objective scholarly reasons, but for highly tendentious, antireligious purposes."

Important: Wells himself has stated that The Jesus Legend on that his position is not Christ Myth as being in the Jesus never existed mold. ---
 * Tom Harpur (born 1929)


 * Education: BA from University of Toronto, BA & MA (Oxon) in classics from Oxford University


 * Position: columnist for The Toronto Star; formerly (late 1960s) professor of New Testament at Wycliffe College, Toronto, a theological college of the Anglican Church of Canada affiliated with the University of Toronto through the Toronto School of Theology


 * Relevant specialization: New Testament


 * Relevant publications:
 * The Pagan Christ: Recovering the Lost Light (Thomas Allen 2004)


 * Basic position: Harpur argues that there is no evidence that Jesus of Nazareth ever lived and that the details of Jesus' life and message were derived from Egyptian religions.

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 * Views of others: W. Ward Gasque has said that "[v]irtually none of the alleged evidence for the views put forward in The Pagan Christ is documented by reference to original sources" and "[m]any quotations are taken out of context and interpreted in a very different sense from what their author originally meant". He further states that Harpur "has based The Pagan Christ on the work of self-appointed 'scholars' who seek to excavate the literary and archaeological resources of the ancient world the same way an avid crossword puzzle enthusiast mines dictionaries and lists of words. In short, Harpur's book tells us more about himself than it does about the origins of Christianity". Terry Donaldson, Harpur's successor at Wycliffe College, has written that The Pagan Christ "is an easy target in many ways" and "a textbook example" of "parallelomania".
 * Michael Martin (born 1932)


 * Education: Phd in philosophy from Harvard University


 * Position: Professor emeritus of philosophy, Boston University


 * Relevant specialization: philosophy of religion


 * Relevant publications:
 * The Case Against Christianity (Temple University Press 1991)


 * Basic position: Martin argues that a strong prima facie challenge can be made to the argument for Jesus's existence, though he acknowledges that such a denial is "not widely accepted".

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 * Views of others: Gary Habermas describes Martin as "[o]ne of the only scholars to follow G. A. Wells" and says that "Martin's theses fail to account for the available data at a very basic level." Habermas also draws attention to Martin's failure to accurately respresent the views of the scholars that Martin himself quotes in ostensible support of his views.
 * Earl Doherty (born 1941)


 * Education: BA in ancient history


 * Position: none


 * Relevant specialization: history


 * Relevant publications:
 * "The Jesus Puzzle: Pieces in a Puzzle of Christian Origins", Journal of Higher Criticism (1997);
 * The Jesus Puzzle (Canadian Humanist Publications 1999);


 * Basic position: Doherty argues that Jesus never existed as a historical person; non-historical mystical speculations were progressively historicized and personified over time. He admits, though, that mainstream scholarship dismisses the thesis and that "[m]ost of their comment[s]... are limited to expressions of contempt."

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 * Views of others: Ben Witherington has said that Doherty's efforts are "unhistorical and even anti-historical" and that "Mr. Doherty unfortunately is a mere polemicist. He has not done his historical homework, he clearly has not bothered to read the broad range of NT scholarship, and of course he comes at his study with a strong ax to gring." John Dominic Crossan has compared Doherty to a moon-landing skeptic. Paula Fredriksen has said that Doherty "seems to be working very hard to create a straw man that he can then begin to knock down." Hector Avalos has stated that Doherty's case seems "plausible", but R. Joseph Hoffmann has said that Doherty's primary work, The Jesus Puzzle, is "qualitatively and academically far inferior to anything so far written on the subject."
 * Robert M. Price (born 1954)


 * Education: BA from Montclair State University, MTS in New Testament from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, Phd in Systematic Theology from Drew University, and another PhD in New Testament, also from Drew


 * Position: Professor of theology and scriptural studies at the unaccredited Johnnie Coleman Theological Seminary & professor of biblical criticism at the unaccredited Center for Inquiry Institute; fellow of the Jesus Seminar


 * Relevant specialization: New Testament


 * Relevant publications:
 * The Widow Traditions in Luke-Acts (Society of Biblical Literature 1997)
 * Deconstructing Jesus (Prometheus Books 2000)
 * The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man (Prometheus Books 2003)
 * The Pre-Nicene New Testament (Signature Books 2006)
 * Jesus Is Dead (American Atheist Press 2007)
 * The Historical Jesus: Five Views (with other authors) (InterVarsity Press 2009)


 * Basic position: Price feels that the evidence for the existence of the historical Jesus is deeply ambiguous, at best, and that to postulate the existence of such a person is thus "arbitrary". Nevertheless, Price admits that New Testament scholars regard the Christ myth theory with "universal disdain".

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 * Views of others: James D. G. Dunn has characterized Price's arguments as "sad"; Tony Costa has said that Price's work "is not a serious discussion of the issues among one’s scholarly peers but rather comes across as an extremely bitter rant"; Craig A. Evans has said that "[v]irtually no scholar trained in history will agree with Price's negative conclusions", and that his "work in the gospels is overpowered by a philosophical mindset that is at odds with historical research—of any kind."
 * Timothy Freke (born 1959) & Peter Gandy (writting together)


 * Education: Timothy Freke- BA in philosophy; Peter Gandy- MA in classical civilization


 * Position: none


 * Relevant specialization: Timothy Freke- none; Peter Gandy- history


 * Relevant publications:
 * The Jesus Mysteries (Three Rivers Press 2001)
 * Jesus and the Lost Goddess (Three Rivers Press 2002)
 * The Laughing Jesus (Three Rivers Press 2006)


 * Basic position: Freke and Gandy argue that Jesus never existed; Gnostic belief in a purely mythical Jesus was the original form of Christianity which was supplanted, suppressed, and then covered-up by the Catholic Church.

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 * Views of others: When asked about Christ myth theory authors, including Freke and Gandy, Bart Ehrman replied: "This current craze that Christianity was a mystery religion like these other mystery religions-the people who are saying this are almost always people who know nothing about the mystery religions; they've read a few popular books, but they're not scholars of mystery religions. The reality is, we know very little about mystery religions-the whole point of mystery religions is that they're secret! So I think it's crazy to build on ignorance in order to make a claim like this." Likewise, when N. T. Wright was asked to debate either Freke or Gandy concerning their thesis on television, he replied that this "was like asking a professional astronomer to debate with the authors of a book claiming the moon was made of green cheese."
 * D. M. Murdock


 * Education: BLA in classics from Franklin and Marshall College


 * Position: none


 * Relevant specialization: classical literature


 * Relevant publications:
 * The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold (Adventures Unlimited Press 1999)
 * multiple self-published books


 * Basic position: Murdock believes that there never was a historical Jesus; "Jesus" began as an amalgam of astrological symbolism and pagan myths which were later historicized.


 * Views of others: Even fellow Christ myth theory advocate, Robert M. Price has said Murdock "is quick to state as bald fact what turn out to be, once one chases down her sources, either wild speculation or complex inference from a chain of complicated data open to many interpretations... The Christ Conspiracy is a random bag of (mainly recycled) eccentricities, some few of them worth considering, most dangerously shaky, many outright looney."

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Contra

 * Michael Grant (1914 – 2004)


 * Education: Classics at Trinity College, Cambridge


 * Position: Professor of humanities at University of Edinburgh; Vice-chancellor at the Queen's University of Belfast and University of Khartoum


 * Relevant specialization: Ancient history


 * Relevant publications:
 * Ancient History (Barnes & Noble 1951)
 * The Ancient Mediterranean (Littlehampton Book Services 1969)
 * The Ancient Historians (Littlehampton Book Services 1970)
 * The Jews in the Roman World (Macmillan 1973)
 * Paul (Scribner 1976)
 * Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels (Scribner 1977)
 * The History of Ancient Israel (Littlehampton Book Services 1984)
 * St Peter: A Biography (Barnes Noble 1994)


 * Basic positions: "This skeptical way of thinking reached its culmination in the argument that Jesus as a human being never existed at all and is a myth. In ancient times, this extreme view was named the heresy of docetism (seeming) because it maintained that Jesus never came into the world "in the flesh", but only seemed to; (I John 4:2) and it was given some encouragement by Paul's lack of interest in his fleshly existence."

"To sum up, modern critical methods fail to support the Christ-myth theory. It has 'again and again been answered and annihilated by first-rank scholars'. In recent years 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non-historicity of Jesus' -- or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary."

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 * Views of others:
 * Graeme Clarke (born 1934)


 * Education: BA University of Auckland, MA in Latin and ancient Greek from University of Auckland, BA in classics from Oxford University, Litt.D University of Melbourne


 * Position: Emeritus Professor of history, Australian National University


 * Relevant specialization: Ancient history and classics


 * Relevant publications:
 * Judaism & Hellenism in Early Christianity (Liturgical Press 1988)
 * Reading the Past in Late Antiquity (Australian National University Press 1990)
 * "The Origins and Spread of Christianity", Cambridge Ancient History (Cambridge University Press 1996)
 * Identities in the Eastern Mediterranean in Antiquity (University of Sydney Press 1998)


 * Basic position:"Frankly, I know of no ancient historian/biblical historian who would have a twinge of doubt about the existence of a Jesus Christ - the documentary evidence is simply overwhelming."

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 * Views of others:
 * Graham Stanton (1940-2009)


 * Education: Bachelor of Divinity and MA, University of Otago; PhD Westminster College, Cambridge, a theological college of the United Reformed Church affiliated with the University of Cambridge through the Cambridge Theological Federation.


 * Position: Professor of Divinity, University of Cambridge


 * Relevant specialization: New Testament; Gospels, particularly Matthew's


 * Relevant publications:
 * Jesus of Nazareth in New Testament Preaching (Cambridge University Press 1974)
 * The Gospels and Jesus'' (Oxford University Press 1989)
 * Gospel for a New People: Studies in Matthew (T. & T. Clark Publishers 1992)
 * Gospel Truth? New Light on Jesus and the Gospels (Zondervan 1997)
 * Jesus and Gospel (Cambridge University Press 2004)


 * Basic position: "Today, nearly all historians, whether Christians or not, accept that Jesus existed and that the gospels contain plenty of valuable evidence which has to be weighed and assessed critically. There is general agreement that, with the possible exception of Paul, we know far more about Jesus of Nazareth than about any first or second century Jewish or pagan religious teacher."

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 * Views of others:
 * Robert E. Van Voorst


 * Education: BA Hope College, MDiv Western Theological Seminary, STM & PhD in New Testament, Union Theological Seminary--an institution affiliated with Columbia University


 * Position: Professor of New Testament Studies, Western Theological Seminary


 * Relevant specialization: New Testament


 * Relevant publications:
 * Jesus Outside the New Testament (Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing 2000)
 * Reading the New Testament Today (2004)
 * The Jesus Legend: A Case for the Historical Reliability of the Synoptic Jesus Tradition (co-author, 2007)


 * Basic position: "The theory of Jesus' nonexistence is now effectively dead as a scholarly question... The nonhistoricity thesis has always been controversial, and it has consistently failed to convince scholars of many disciplines and religious creeds... Biblical scholars and classical historians now regard it as effectively refuted."

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 * Views of others:
 * Bart D. Ehrman (born 1955)


 * Education: BA Wheaton College (Illinois); M.Div and PhD from Princeton Theological Seminary


 * Position: Chair of the Department of Religious Studies, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill


 * Relevant specialization: New Testament and early Christianity


 * Relevant publications (see his bibliography)
 * Didymus the Blind and the Text of the Gospels  (Society of Biblical Literature 1987)
 * The Text of the New Testament in Contemporary Research'' (Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company 1995)
 * The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture (Oxford University Press 1996)
 * After the New Testament: A Reader in Early Christianity (Oxford University Press 1998)
 * Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium (Oxford University Press 1999)
 * The New Testament: A Historical Introduction to the Early Christian Writings (Oxford University Press 2003)
 * Truth and Fiction in The Da Vinci Code: A Historian Reveals What We Really Know about Jesus, Mary Magdalene, and Constantine (Oxford University Press 2004)
 * Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why (HarperSanFrancisco 2005)
 * Jesus, Interrupted: Revealing the Hidden Contradictions in the Bible (And Why We Don't Know About Them). HarperCollins 2009.


 * Basic position: "I think the evidence is just so overwhelming that Jesus existed, that it's silly to talk about him not existing. I don't know anyone who is a responsible historian, who is actually trained in the historical method, or anybody who is a biblical scholar who does this for a living, who gives any credence at all to any of this."

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 * Views of others:
 * John Dickson


 * Education: B Theology (Hons); PhD in ancient history from Macquarie University


 * Position: Senior Research Fellow of the Department of Ancient History, Macquarie University


 * Relevant specialization: Ancient history, historical Jesus, New Testament.


 * Relevant publications:
 * Mission-Commitment in Ancient Judaism and in the Pauline Communities (Mohr Siebeck 2003)
 * Christ Files: How Historians Know What They Know about Jesus (Christian Education Publications 2006)
 * A Spectator's Guide to Jesus: An Introduction to the Man from Nazareth (Lion 2008)
 * Jesus: A Short Life (Lion 2008)


 * Basic position: "In fact, I doubt that any of us could name a professional biblical or ancient historian who thinks Jesus’ existence is still debatable. Much more representative of the state of the question is the comment of Professor Ed Sanders of Duke University, one of the leading historical Jesus scholars of the last twenty years and no friend of Christian apologetics: ‘There are no substantial doubts about the general course of Jesus’ life: when and where he lived, approximately when and where he died, and the sort of thing that he did during his public activity.’ I think this sentiment would be endorsed by virtually everyone writing in the field today." (In a paper presented to the Society for the Study of Early Christianity)

Views of others: ---
 * Paul W. Barnett


 * Education: MA University of Sydney, ThL Australian College of Theology, BD Hons, and PhD London University.


 * Position: visiting fellow in ancient history at Macquarie University and Research Professor at Regent College


 * Relevant specialization: ancient history, New Testament


 * Relevant publications:
 * Jesus and the Logic of History (Eerdmans 1997)
 * Jesus & the Rise of Early Christianity (InterVarsity Press 1999)
 * Behind the Scenes of the New Testament (InterVarsity Press 1990)
 * Is The New Testament Reliable? (InterVarsity Press 2005)
 * The Birth Of Christianity The First Twenty Years (Eerdmans 2005)
 * Paul, Missionary of Jesus (Eerdmans 2008)
 * Finding the Historical Christ (Eerdmans 2009)
 * Messiah: Jesus - the Evidence of History (InterVarsity Press 2009)


 * Basic position:"Reputable ancient historians irrespective of religious persuasion know that Jesus was a genuine figure of history."

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 * Views of others:
 * L. Michael White


 * Education: BA (1971), MA Abilene Christian University; MDiv Yale Divinity School, MA, MPhil, PhD Yale University


 * Position: Professor of classics and religious studies, University of Texas at Austin


 * Relevant specialization: New Testament, Christian origins


 * Relevant publications:
 * From Jesus to Christianity (Harper Collins 2004)
 * Scripting Jesus: The Gospel Authors as Storytellers (Harper Collins 2010)


 * Basis position: "That Jesus was a real figure of first century Judean history is no longer much questioned, as it once was. Later sources from opposing camps-Romans, Jews, Christians-show that all sides acknowledged both his life and his death."


 * Views of others: