Talk:Christian D. Larson

Larson is notable
Hrafn, if you feel that Larson is not notable, please nominate the article for deletion. The fact that many or even most of his works remain in print today is strong indication of his notability, as well as the fact that a google of "Christian D. Larson" produces 43,400 hits. Thanks, Madman (talk) 13:13, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * No. Like all your demands, this one has no basis in policy. There is no requirement to AfD an article in order to place a notability-template, just like there was no basis in policy for your previous demands that I seek an AfDs before redirecting pages. Does your proof by assertion that "Larson is notable" have basis in policy? Of course not! WP:BIO & WP:BK say nothing whatsoever about "most of his works remain in print today" (even if you had a WP:RS for this) or number of Google hits. But why bother with policy, when you can have an editor pontificate as to how things should be? HrafnTalkStalk 13:43, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Please scale back on the anger and confrontation. Certainly Larson qualifies under this provision:
 * "The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in his or her specific field" -- the specific field being self-help books.
 * Again, if you feel that he is not notable, nominate the article for deletion and see how the world at large judges his contribution. Thanks, Madman (talk) 14:26, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

HrafnTalkStalk 15:22, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) You started your interaction with me with false accusations of WP:VANDALism, you have made repeated demands that have no basis in policy, and you are currently contributing to a WP:ATTACKPAGE against me. You are thus in no position whatsoever to complain about "confrontation".
 * [Reply: No my first interaction with you was this edit. It was only after you continued with your present behaviour (a great example being this list of numbered bullets) did I start to become concerned.  Madman (talk) 16:21, 8 September 2008 (UTC)]
 * You were accusing me of vandalism within three days -- stop nitpicking. My "behaviour" was simply that of refusing to acquiesce to demands that had no basis whatsoever in wikipedia policy (and were in fact in flagrant violation of WP:V). Numbered lists are "confrontation"? That's ludicrous! HrafnTalkStalk 16:40, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) You have not even asserted claims amounting to "a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in his or her specific field", let alone established it with WP:RS. All you have argued is sales & Google hits -- argumentum ad populum -- and thus fallacious.
 * 2) Again -- stop making demands that have no basis in policy! I am under NO OBLIGATION WHATSOEVER to comply with such demands, and you have GIVEN ME NO REASON WHATSOEVER to wish to comply with them voluntarily. Any further such baseless demands will be considered to be both (i) gross incivility, (ii) extreme bad faith & (iii) WP:BAITing.

Please tell us what you think needs citations
Rather than wholesale deletion of material, please let us know what you're challenging and why. Certainly, the deletion of complete sentences without reasons is not helping matters. Thanks in advance, Madman (talk) 14:31, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

In other words -- virtually the whole of this short article. HrafnTalkStalk 15:01, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) http://christianlarson.wwwhubs.com/ is a commercially-oriented site of anonymous authorship and unknown editorial oversight, so is not a WP:RS. Anything that makes use of this source thus needs re-sourcing.
 * 2) Fenner, Audrey, ed. (2004) Selecting Materials for Library Collections, Routledge, ISBN 978-0789015211, p. 181 only makes mention of Larson (along with a whole heap of others) influencing Holmes and his brother.
 * 3) Martin, Darnise C. (2005) Beyond Christianity, NYU Press, New York, p. 20 likewise only mentions Larson as being (one of a number of writers who were) an influence on Holmes. It further only mentions one book as being particularly influential: The Ideal Made Real
 * 4) Therefore what needs sourcing is:
 * 5) "Many of Larson's books remain in print today, nearly 100 years after they were first published, and his writings influenced notable New Thought authors and leaders."
 * 6) "Larson during his life was honorary president of the International New Thought Alliance. He was a colleague of with such notables as William Walker Atkinson, Charles Brodie Patterson, and Home of Truth founder Annie Rix Militz"


 * No response I see. Are you therefore happy if I retag, and eventually remove, this material, per WP:V?
 * Here is my response:
 * I have moved this source down into External links.
 * This is a reputable source who says that Larson influenced Holmes. This is good.
 * This is another reputable source who says that Larson influenced Holmes. This is also good.
 * I'll look for references for some of the other words.
 * Thanks, Madman (talk) 23:08, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

External links modified
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Date of death
The date of Larson's death has been disputed. At present the article says 1955, but on 28 November ab editor changed it to 1962, giving as justification a long quote in German in an edit summary, which contained 1962 as the date of death. Unfortunately no indication was given as to where the quote was from, so it is impossible to assess its reliability.

I have checked through the history of the article, and found the following. The article was created in January 2007, without any date of death given. At various times from July 2009 onwards the dates 1954, 1955, and 1962 have been added. On almost all occasions the change was made without giving either a source or an explanation. On one occasion a sort of reference was given, but it was to vague to be able to trace it for verification.

I have made web searches for the date. All three of the dates i mentioned above can be found in numerous sources, but the overwhelming majority of them are not reliable sources, and for all three dates many of the sources have clearly copied from Wikipedia. Amazon even gives two quotes on the same web page, https://www.amazon.co.uk/Your-Forces-How-Use-Them/dp/0486817717 giving the date in one case as 1954 and in the other as 1962, suggesting considerable confusion.

Because my searches were motivated by disputes over the death date, I didn't take so much notice of the date of birth, but I have now noticed that it has been changed from 1874 to 1866.

The nearest I have been able to find to a reliable source is publisher's information about the article in a book by him, "Your Forces and How to Use Them", published by Dover Publications in 2017, which gives the dates as 1874–1954.

This is very unsatisfactory, and I think there is a case for saying that there is no reliable source, and therefore we should not give any dates. However, at present I am minded to take the line that the source most likely to be reliable says 1874–1954, so I shall edit the article to say that. I really cannot find anything that could reasonably regarded as a reliable source for the alternative dates. JBW (talk) 23:02, 30 November 2020 (UTC)