Talk:Christian Dior

Early comments
"Christian Dior is a very gay man" - The article doesn't explicitly say who "Raymond" and "François" are. It also says that Raymond should have been Christian's successor because Christian didn't have any children; however, the first paragraph under "History" says that he had three.

As Wikipedia has a world-wide audience can "Stores throughout the country" be replaced by "Stores throughout the US" or even the US reference dropped?

yea totally agree!

Article formatting
This page is badly in need of formatting and also becoming more informative. The article barely mentions the fashion it's self and rather only contains biographical details on Christian Dior's life. I'd do it but I wouldn't know where to begin.

Picture?
Can we do any better with this picture? I'm having a really tough time believing that that's a Dior shoot. (that's putting it mildly. I think it's just some guys fooling around.) posted by 61.7.2.220 (talk)


 * Well, it says "small" fashion magazine, which I interpret to be some mag produced at a local design school or something, however the models do look like Dior male models and the suit looks Dior. Are you contesting this, that the suit and the models are not real, or just that it's not a mainstream fashion magazine. I guarantee Vogue is not going to be giving any of their prints to the public domain.   If you can do better, go ahead and change it out, otherwise, please leave it.KP Botany 00:02, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Separate page for fashion
I believe that a separate page for the couture fashion of Christian Dior is needed, possibly linked by /Dior_(fashion)/me 2 i think it needs more formatting and what is in this that shows the prefumes or fashion thats what i think is wrong.


 * Agreed. I've moved Parfums Christian Dior to a separate page, and done a preliminary cleanup of this article. But at the moment it seems to be about Hedi Slimane rather than Dior himself, and is deeply confusing. -- TinaSparkle 18:00, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Tip-toe, tip-toe
Ok yeah. Christian Dior was gay. So are most of the men involved with the company today. The article tip-toes around it. That's bullshit.

After Dior's death
The article doesn't mention that Gianfranco Ferre was the "artistic director" for Dior at least in the early 90's, between Bohan and Galliano.

Fair use rationale for Image:Christian Dior.png
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Plagiarism in the Dior years section
The following paragraph

<< The New Look was absolutely appropriate for the post-war era. Dior was correct in assuming that people wanted something new after years of war, brutality and hardship. His new look was reminiscent of the Belle Epoque ideal of long skirts, tiny waists and beautiful fabrics that his mother had worn in the early 1900s. Such a traditional concept of femininity also suited the political agenda. Women had been mobilised during the war to work on farms and in factories while the men were away fighting. In peacetime those women were expected to return to passive roles as housewives and mothers, leaving their jobs free for the returning soldiers. The official paradigm of post-war womanhood was a capable, caring housewife who created a happy home for her husband and children. Dior’s “flower women” fitted the bill perfectly.

His couture house was inundated with orders. Rita Hayworth picked out an evening gown for the première of her new movie, Gilda. The ballerina, Margot Fonteyn, bought a suit. Dior put Paris back on the fashion map. The US couture clients came back in force for the autumn 1947 collections and Dior was invited to stage a private presentation of that season’s show for the British royal family in London, although King George V forbade the young princesses, Elizabeth and Margaret, from wearing the New Look lest it set a bad example at a time when rationing was still in force for the general public.>>

is from <>  There's plagiarism in this article. 67.11.171.225 01:35, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

More plagiarism
Much of the remainder of the article is directly lifted from <>

Buchenwald
About Toledano's saying about some sister being sent to Buchenwald, if you read the NY Times' article carefuly you'll see Toledano is talking about his own sister, not Christian Dior's.2.80.12.1 (talk) 21:15, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

As Christian Dior changed the history of the world of fashion?
Croatian writer Giancarlo Kravar: Rita Haywort, Olivia de Havilland, Elizabeth Taylor, Evita Peron, the Duchess of Windsor, Barbara Hutton, Pamela Churchill, Elie de Rothschild were the first on the list of many famous and powerful women who wear Christian Dior models. And how did it all begin? In the luxurious Parisian bar in Avenue Montaigne, the number 30 was crowded 12th February 1947. year. There were a lot of writers, actors, fashion businessman, critics, photographers and journalists of all newspapers. And then, shock! According to the Croatian daily Vecernji list, but the first model in a rich wrinkled skirt showed that almost a fashion war poverty is over. The author of the first biography of Dior France Pochna wrote: "The skirt, which moves in a circle of 20 feet, hat set up to cover one eye, arrogant attitude, an incarnation of femininity, seductive, sensual and elegant combination of scandalous, true Parisian allegory. Long skirts, narrow waist, full breasts ... Women in the audience in short skirts unconsciously began to withdraw their skirts the edges." Thus was born the New Look, perhaps the most important design concept 20th century. Thus the Christian Dior changed the history of world fashion. I would add: the legend lives in the 21st century! 93.137.58.201 (talk) 20:55, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 11:38, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:52, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Alla Ilchun kazakh model of "Dior".jpg

Gay
Although categorised as an LGBT artist from France, there’s no mention of Dior’s sexuality in the article. And while Jacques Benita is a re-direct to this page, there’s no mention of him either, even though he is pretty well documented as Dior’s last partner. I appreciate that Wikipedia’s not a gossip column, but the absence of any mention at all of his sexuality seems rather odd. KJP1 (talk) 17:32, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Have added a brief mention. KJP1 (talk) 12:54, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

He was really into boys so he was gay
He was gay designer 77.219.0.112 (talk) 12:22, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Death section
He was survived by Jacques Benita, a North African singer three decades his junior, the last of a number of discreet male lovers. I removed this sentence partly because it makes no sense and partly because of the three sources cited, the only one that is not beyond a paywall is the haute couture source, which does not support the material. It "makes no sense" because generally a "survived by" statement is reserved for people with whom the subject has either a blood relationship, e.g., grandchildren, or a legal relationship, e.g., a spouse or a partner. Also, the statement about "male lovers" needs to be fully supported, and I didn't see that either in the haute couture source. reverted my removal, and when I put it back, removed it again, stating that it was my burden to go to Talk rather than "edit-war". That's not true per WP:BRD, but in the interest of maybe resolving this, here I am. KJP1, if you have access to the NYT or to the New Yorker sources, do they support the material as written? If so, could you provide some text from the articles demonstrating that? Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:52, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Dior was a gay man and is so categorised in our article. Prior to my addition, the actual article made no mention of this. I flagged this on the Talkpage to enable discussion and subsequently added one sentence referencing Jacques Benita, who is actually a redirect to this page. Material from the sources to support this includes:
 * "The weekends were filled with friends, including various young men. Christian’s last companion was Jacques Benita, a young Algerian singer, who he met in 1956 and who, from that time, accompanied him on all the social activities"; [Zotoff]
 * "Dior even decided to diet to look good and more attractive for his young lover, even though Benita said it was unnecessary"; [Zotoff]
 * "his chauffeur, a long discarded lover of his youth named Perrotino"; [du Plessix Gray]
 * "over the previous decade Dior’s love life had been disastrous. Numerous desirable young men had refused to offer him anything more than devoted friendship. Finally, in 1956, a handsome youth of North African descent, Jacques Benita, returned Dior’s affection. The consummately formal Dior became so besottedly enamored that he was seen holding his lover’s hand in public"; [du Plessix Gray]
 * "Like many closeted gay men, Dior had a spectacularly low opinion of himself"; [Blanks]
 * "his driver and onetime lover Pierre Perrotino"; [Blanks]
 * "Which isn't to say there weren't companions. The last was Jacques Benita, a Moroccan singer three decades Dior's junior". [Blanks]
 * I'm unclear as to your objection. Your initial removal had an edit summary that spoke of "tabloid source(s)"- which they aren't; "innuendo" - which recognising Dior's sexuality and his last partner isn't; and my use of the word "survived" - which now appears to be your main objection. Here, I find your stance rather outdated. To suggest that the term "survived by" is "reserved" for blood relations or legal partners seems rather discriminatory, and I've no idea what it's based on, beyond your own view. Dior and Benita were not related, and a legal relationship was impossible, as neither France, nor anywhere else, recognised same-sex partnerships at the time. This, of course, remains true in many parts of the world. Are you really suggesting that LGBT partnerships that don't or can't meet your criteria shouldn't be recognised/referenced? KJP1 (talk) 06:24, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm saying that there was no sourced relationship that meets the standard for calling Benita a surviving relation. Nothing above indicates that they were partners in any sense, recognized or otherwise. Benita is mentioned only once in the article; he is never established as Dior's "partner". Did Dior leave Benita anything? Money? Property, personal or real? The fact that Benita was Dior's lover isn't sufficient to say that he survived him, and this has nothing to do with "my criteria", so please keep that nonsense out of your comments.--Bbb23 (talk) 13:31, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * "The fact that Benita was Dior's lover isn't sufficient to say that he survived him" - why not? And according to whose 'rule', other than yours? And drop the aggressive tone. You really ought to be able to hold a discussion without it. KJP1 (talk) 14:01, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I can see that this is going nowhere. You think it's my burden to justify my removal; I think it's yours. You think I'm edit-warring; I think you are. You think I'm aggressive; I think you are. I'm not big on content disputes, especially with experienced users, so I'll consider whether there is some way to bring in other editors to participate in this discussion, and whether I want to spend my time on this or not.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:09, 21 March 2023 (UTC)