Talk:Christian Rosenkreuz

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I have very little knowledge in this field but this article seems very NPOV to me -- isn't there a lot of debate about whether he actually existed or was a myth or even a fabrication? 193.129.65.37 08:59, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Removed text
"C.R.C. body was found intact in this microcosmos chamber in 1604, the same year the last "naked eye" supernova (SN 1604) till today was observed in our galaxy Milky Way."


 * Firstly, this is badly phrased. Secondly, if Rosenkreuz was possibly legendary, how can we say that he was found intact in a microcosmos chamber? I have removed the text until it can be sourced and this issue cleared up. - Ta bu shi da yu 02:56, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Isn't the whole point that Christian Rosenkreutz is either a symbolic figure (like Hermes Trsimegistos) or at least a pseudonym? Its highly unlikely that someone who founded the Order of the Rose Cross was actually called Christian Rosecross. At best whoever it was who was behind this movement took the name as a nom de plume, like Papus or Fulcanelli. The legend of the preserved corpse is surely symbolic and to do with the Hermetic idea of Rebirth which the Rosicrucians adopted? Come on guys, a little imagination would not go amiss! ThePeg 21:06, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * If Rebirth is the current process of evolution, isn't it conceivable that there may already exist those Compassionate Ones who have already overcome it? Didn't « Christ mentioned this class in Matthew, 11th chapter, 12th verse, when He said: "The Kingdom of Heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." That is not a correct translation. It ought to be "The Kingdom of the Heavens has been invaded" (the Greek is biaxetai,) "and invaders seize on her." » ? As also it appears to be mentioned in Revelation 3:12 (KJV), which states "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God and he shall go no more out". Blessings. -- 17:47, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Christian Rosenkreuz (Lazarus): to meditate upon, "Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?" (Gospel according Saint John 21: 21-23)

Of course its possible and probably likely that there are the Compassionate Ones who have already overcome the process of life and death. All I'm saying is that its unlikely there was a single Christian Rosencreutz or at least that this was his real name. I have read theories which locate CR as a leader of the Cathars and others which suggest he founded the Brothers of the RCs in Bohemia in the 14th Century (Max Heindel's belief. He claimed he was taken to the secret location of the Brotherhood). To be fair, Rudolf Steiner also believed Christian was a real person. ThePeg 12:39, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Magre
There's a bit of an error with the lines about Magre's theory about Rosenkreutz. The book actually says that the family mixed Pagan practices with Christian ones but had then adopted the Cathar faith. The way the passage seems to express it is that Catharism mixed Pagan practices and Christian ideas. Shall I change this? ThePeg 17:16, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

This whole section on Magre on the origins of Christian Rosenkreuz {henceforth 'CR'} is dubious as a source of reliable history. Firstly, Magre does not offer any sources to back up his claims in 'The Return of the Magi' regarding the validity of CR being from the Germelshausen family. In fact, in defense of his claim, he states "There are no precise data here - only a tradition, a story told orally. There is no written text, no historical proof." (1975, 'The Return of the Magi, English trans., Sphere Publications, p. 91). Second, Magre is a well-known writer in the genre of historical/fantastical fiction, he should not be credited as a historian. User:Lintwall 8:07, 25 October 2023 (GMT-4)

Same person as Christian Knorr von Rosenroth?
Is there any evidence that Christian Rosenkreuz and Christian Knorr von Rosenroth are one and the same?--P Todd (talk) 06:10, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Help, I've misplaced Landgrave Conrad
Will someone help me find him? The article links to Konrad von Marburg, a cleric at the court of Louis IV, Landgrave of Thuringia, and not himself a Landgrave. Wikipedia's admittedly sketchy list of Thuringian rulers includes no Landgrave Conrad, though there is a 9th C. Duke of that name. Although inquisitor Konrad von Marburg could have persecuted the family Germelshausen in the 13th century, he would have been far too dead to finish off Rosenkreuz's family at the beginning of the 14th C. per the tradition related in the article.

Compounding the problem, Wikipedia only knows Germelshausen as a disappearing town, a German Brigadoon as it were, and not as a 13th C. Thuringian family. So you see, family, village, and Landgrave have all disappeared.

@ThePeg: Did Magre provide references, and did you follow them up when you read him? From the titles available at the U.S. Library of Congress, he seems more a writer of racy novels than an historian.

Yappy2bhere (talk) 08:41, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Origin of Christian Rosenkreutz
The name & myth of Christian Rosenkreutz appears for the first time in 1616 with the publication of the alchemical romance The Chymical Marriage of Christian Rosenkreutz. Contrary to popular myth & almost universal belief, the name does not appear in the original Rosicrucian manifestoes Fama Fraternitatis (1614) nor in the Confessio Fraternitatis (1615). As Paul Foster Case states in The True & Invisible Rosicrucian Order, "No names of persons appear in the manifestoes. Initials only designate the founder of the order & his associates."

Not only does the name Christian Rosenkreutz not appear in the two manifestoes, but several sets of initials are used interchangeably throughout the Fama, with "Brother R.C." used most often, accompanied by "Brother C.", "Father R.C.", "Brother C.R.", "Fra. F.R.C." and "Father C.". Case suggests that the use of the various initials in the manifestoes was based on the letter-number system of Hebrew Gematria which was familiar to learned Eurorpean students of occult doctrine at the time of publication of the manifestoes. The use of Gematria revealed a hidden meaning to the initiated while putting the unitiated off the track. Nequaquamvacuum (talk) 14:58, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Nequaquamvacuum (talk • contribs) 14:56, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

REGARDING THE CONTEMPORARY REFERENCE: How is Robert C. Christian supposed to be a reference to Christian Rosenkreuz? Whoever put that there conspicuously left out the name "Robert." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.207.70.85 (talk) 13:42, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Disputed
Maurice Magre's position as a citable historian is dubious, as he is a known writer of fantastical fiction, and offers no proof to back up his claim that Christian Rosenkreuz is from the Germelshausen family which flourished in the 13th century. See talk section on 'Magre' above. User:Lintwall 8:12, 25 October 2023 (GMT-4) Lintwall (talk) 12:12, 25 October 2023 (UTC)