Talk:Christian countercult movement

Untitled
It seems to me that since these groups are so controversial why not include a section on this topic? It was done in the Jehovah's witnesses article.

I will post a link to CESNUR and "Ontario Consultants for Religious Tolerance" which are religious tolerance websites that have been vilified by some of these "anti-cult" groups, although they appear to be academically sound organizations.

http://www.cesnur.org/

http://www.religioustolerance.org/

that last link is quite good.

I agree that these groups are controversial and yet I do not see any section on the criticism of these groups. I am tagging this article {npov} --Saint-Paddy 00:00, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

NPOV template?
I confess that I cannot understand the justification for the disputed NPOV template on the article from this talk page, so I have removed it. If someone can clarify what the purported problem is, that would be helpful. nae'blis (talk) 17:40, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Discernment Ministries redirect
Should Discernment Ministries redirect here? Right now it's going to Christian theological controversy - which I can't understand well enough to figure out what's up or down... CDC (talk) 22:44, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I deleted this last sentence due to lack of objectivity and ad hominem attacks.

Removed sentence
I removed the following:


 * Instead, by combining insights from missions theory, a cross-cultural approach to dialogue, proclamation and conversion is applied in outreach.

It's fluff and it's advertising, and it's certainly not NPOV. -67.182.236.190 02:47, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Moved from Anti-cult movement because off-topic there please merge here
I moved this from anti-cult movement because it was off-topic there. Please merge with this article.
 * "Their activities and orientation vary: some are missionary and apologetically oriented, directed at current members of divergent groups, some are therapeutically oriented, directed mainly at former members of divergent groups, and others educally [sic-?] oriented, directed at members of their own denomination or at the general public. Counter cult ministries concern themselves mainly religious groups which regard themselves as Christian but hold one or more unorthodox beliefs, including The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Unification church, Christian Science, and Jehovah's Witnesses, although some also target newer and older non-Christian  groups, such as Wicca, Neopagan groups, New Age groups, Buddhism, Hinduism and other Eastern religions.


 * An American umbrella group the Evangelical Ministries to New Religions (EMNR) was formed as a professional association for individuals and ministries addressing "cults" of Christianity, new religious movements, and world religions."

Andries 16:07, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Cult template
Should the template be used here? - since the definition of "cult" by the Christian counter cult movement is different from the mainstream definition... S facets 04:09, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, it should be. This is yet another way of viewpoint on cults. The point of categories and templates is to allow readers to navigate between related articles. This article is certainly related to the overall issue of cults. -Will Beback · † · 10:30, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah alright, put that way, it makes sense. S facets 11:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Would it be fair to say that the movement (or at least some branches of it) uses the word “cult” rather euphemistically and as a propaganda tool? That their use of the term is a way of spinning what they are doing, and by their using words like “cult members” instead heretics they can achieve, with one swoop, both the painting of those other religious movements as wacky and dangerous while simultaneously keeping themselves from looking like throwbacks to the inquisition?

So in this sense, you could say it isn't about “cults” at all or how these people “define” a cult. “Cult” is just a code word and a smoke screen for going after heretics. 75.70.79.27 03:59, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Catholic Inquisition
In some extent, the Catholic Inquisition can be seen as a counter-"cult" movement, as they used to see "heresy" as "cults". Maybe some of those should be included in the article. Chimeric Glider (talk) 19:38, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Primary sources are insufficient
It is not acceptable to use primary sources such as the Bible to support a specific interpretation. Wikipedia needs reputable secondary sources to support those positions. Further, unless sources are produced that define the Patristic Fathers as members of founders of the counter-cult movement, then that language needs to be removed from the article. It is a little difficult to believe given the article itself says this use of the term cult was not created until 1970. There is a difference between apologetics and counter-cult activities. --Storm Rider (talk) 01:38, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Article title = bias
The things listed in this article as "counter cult movements" are not just counter cult. In fact, one of their central purposes is to combat anti-religion, irreligion, evolutionary theory, and relativism. So why does Wikipedia ignore this? Obviously it is intentional, considering Wikipedia editors are 4 times more atheistic than the American public. No bias in Wikipedia? Please...the statistic right there proves it, let alone having this article (and thousands of others) prove it by its very title. Wikipedia you've done it again! What a joke. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.252.50.41 (talk) 21:23, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Martin sections - sources needed
I added citation requests in the Martin P as well as removed the unsourced "defrocked" from his bio. Whoever wrote the sections on Martin seems to be satisfied with the lack of sources. I am not. If we dont get sources on the so-called controversies then we should remove those sections as they seem to be better suited on Martin's own page instead of here. I dont have the time to edit this page but it certainly needs it. --epecho (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 02:58, 26 October 2008 (UTC).

Link to Craig Branch references the wrong person
Hi, new here:

the link under "Organizations" - Craig Branch leads to a profile of the wrong Craig Branch....could someone fix this?

Thanks

BARivers Barivers (talk) 05:16, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Rapture?
How is the Rapture an essential Christian teaching, when as a doctrine it didn't exist at all until the early 19th century? John Nelson Darby, who invented the eschatological system of dispensationalism (of which the Rapture is a part), was a cult leader himself (see Exclusive Brethren), and so I find it highly ironic and even hypocritical of so-called "countercult ministries" to label non-dispensationalist churches as cults, when all churches that teach traditional Christian doctrine are non-dispensational. Just because fundies claim it's an essential doctrine doesn't mean it is one. Fundamentalism itself almost seems like a cult to me in some ways; in particular, the denial of general revelation seems almost Manichaean, as does their take on sola scriptura (the statement "there is no source of truth other than in the Bible" is not itself in the Bible, and is therefore as self-contradictory as the phrase "It is absolutely true that there is no absolute truth". I'm more of a prima scriptura guy myself). Anyway, we should at least offer the opinions of those who disagree with this "movement" or regard it as being cultlike in itself. LonelyBoy2012 (talk) 19:51, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Persecution?
The article is tagged with two categories about religious persecution. Are the Christian countercultists really persecuting anyone? It sounds more like they are disagreeing and arguing more than persecuting. BayShrimp (talk) 15:16, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Mistranslation from Germanic terms corrected
Pfarrer Amt is no a pastoral minstry, and Evangelische is no Evangelical in german. 186.95.175.242 (talk) 16:52, 25 October 2014 (UTC)This section was taken from personal blog by Anton Hein.

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