Talk:Christian feminism/Archive 1

Possible merge with Christian views of women
There is considerable duplication between this article and Christian views of women. With the term Christian egalitarianism gaining more positive acceptance, particularly in the Christian community, than a phrase containing "feminism," I propose a merger of this article into the Christian views of women article. Comments please. CME GBM 23:15, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Recommend merge with Christian views about women
The word "feminism" has negative connotations for so many moderate to conservative Christians. They reject the feminist views strictly on the basis of that classification, and really don't know what are the beliefs and why.

Christians for Biblical Equality organization and others are promoting the term Christian Egalitarianism, the tenets of which are dealt with in Christian views about women.

There is much duplication between Christian feminism and Christian views about women.

Please provide your comments and votes on this page by April 10, 2007.

Thanks. CME GBM 06:40, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

NPOV
This article has no perspective. Christians don't tend to interpret verses as good as bad. Christian feminists (at least the limited amoung I have seen) take a reading (like Islamic feminists) of the whole text and don't isolate verses and argue that the verses must be understood in context. There are not problematic verses. Some people find verses to be problematic and they cite them... skeptics annotated Bible or whatnot... but, you have to source who finds them to be problematic because there is no inherent problem in any verse because we cannot assume that any of these things are inherently bad. gren グレン 05:01, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I myself am ugly and I introduced the wording "problematic." "Problematic" passages that appear to contradict one's view. The verses are not bad in the general sense you mean, only bad in that they support non-feminists views. Conversley, the supportive passages would be problematic to someone opposing feminist views. Here are two quotes by other Christian feminists writing for a feminist org which are quite common, in my experience:


 * I began to dig into the problematic texts from Genesis 3:16 to 1 Timothy 2:11-15


 * Nevertheless, instead of trying to reconcile these few problematic passages [1 Timothy 2:11-12 and 1 Corinthians 14:34-36] with the plain teaching of the rest of the Bible

Since feminists would unlikely be biased against ourselves, I'm removing the NPOV tag. --Ephilei 20:47, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

It might be helpful to explain why the passages are listed, perhaps by explaining how they have frequently been misapplied (whoops am I betraying my bias?) before giving the Christian feminist interpretation of each (which is all that can be seen here in most cases). Demmeis 05:17, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I've restored the NPOV tag, as the article is clearly one-sided. As the article stands now, it's essentially a list of verses which feminists believe state women are inferior to men, with not much support for any interpretations of them, whether the feminist interpretations or more traditional interpretations. It also contains nothing to back up that "the church taught X" (which likely means the Catholic Church, in which case you need to point to specific papal documents); in the case of Protestants, the writings of Luther or Calvin or other founders or highly-regarded ministers in those denominations. PaulGS 02:37, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

from the beginings of the early church....
Who ever wrote this paragraph under the heading history has themselves established that Christ and the apostles held this point of view. But now, feminists want to contend with what Christ and the apostles had established. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.132.95.79 (talk) 15:12, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

No to merge
This page should not be about "Christian view on women," rather this article should be about feminist theology, feminist responses to (patriarchal) Christian theology, feminist presence in the Christian tradition, and feminists perspectives of women in the Christian tradition.--Justine4all 22:28, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Christian Feminist articles and books --Justine4all 22:57, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

This looks like an advertisment for a feminist web site. is advertising allowed on talk pages? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.132.95.79 (talk) 12:59, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It is not advertising, it is Justine4all's good faith effort to show texts that deal with "feminist theology"-- Cailil  talk 19:07, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

An historically male dominated ministry
An historically male dominated ministry in the church has always been the cutting of the church lawn and very few women have ever been able to gain a foot hold in this ministry. It is time sisters to demand the keys to the lawn tractor and show the men how good a job you could do if they would only allow it. Your God given rights and gifts according to the scriptures where there is neither male or female has been denied long enough !....--A B Pepper 03:04, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Plato was not a feminist.
Plato views on women were 'far more egalitarian' than Aristotle's 'discriminatory' view only because sex was entirely irrelevant for Plato: a soul is a soul and it makes no difference whether it is housed in a male or female body. If Aristotle's language is less palatable today then that is only because he was concerned with real people and in addressing that concern his views reflected his time. But Aristotle's concerns are much closer to feminism as an historical movement than are the concerns of Plato. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.90.96.17 (talk) 05:55, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Content Blues
"Others, such as Margaret Fell and Sojourner Truth, were women." Other than letting us now that those historic women were, in fact, women, what thought was the author trying to convey in this sentence? I hope you guys can get this page up to par, because it is an interesting topic. There is a lot more work to be done. If I get to feeling better, I might jump in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.205.243.58 (talk) 13:49, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

original research tag
I added originalresearch to the bible section as there are no sources explaining what scholars find the biblical passages "problematic" and "supportive". Unless this categorization and list of passages can be sourced to mainstream scholarship about Christian feminism the section will have to go-- Cailil  talk 17:59, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay this tag is 6 weeks old and no improvement. If section cannot be fixed it will be removed-- Cailil   talk 22:07, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Well there has been no improvement and no attempt to imrpve the original research problems here. The biggest issue was that this page read like Christianity versus Feminism with quotes used from the bible to support or to oppose it. Lets be very very very clear this article is about Christian feminism not Christianity and feminism. Yes there is a difference. Only sources about Christian feminism as a subject can be used to write this article. Only sources that are of due weight and appropriate reliability. The way the bible passages was being used was utterly inappropriate - this was text book original research. I've addressed this in a number of sections each with the same problems.

I have left the text in the article body but "commented it out" for the moment. This removes it from the screen-version of the page but retains it in the code. However if it can't be sourced properly within the next month then it will be deleted.

Also there should be links to New feminism and Difference feminism here-- Cailil  talk

Big problems with the article
I don't know where to begin. For one thing, the article is too focused on the evangelical perspective, to the exclusion of mainline Protestants and Catholics. (this is a problem with all of Wikipedia's coverage of Christianity) To state that the movement was influenced by "radical secular feminists like Mary Daly" is just wrong because Mary Daly actually started out in the church. In her sixties work she *was* a Christian feminist, though she eventually rejected Christianity. and the history only goes through the 19th century. 128.103.197.152 (talk) 18:34, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Changes made 12/08/08
For the “Wikipedia Improvement Project” in my feminist theory course, I took on this article. Because there are a great many perspectives on what being a Christian feminist entails, the article is still far from comprehensive or conclusive. I have included what my research turned up as the most common Christian feminist beliefs. Although there are still problems, I hope that I have improved its content, scope and reliability.

Definition: Shorter and referenced. I kept the link to Christian egalitarianism to ease exploration of both topics, but removed the lengthy explanation. I also removed the “other definition” because it was not cited and not supported in my research.

History: I removed the initial paragraph because it was largely uncited and seemed extraneous. Christian feminism has existed in a variety of forms since the formation of the church, and although my additions are meager, I hope that they at least convey that fact. This section still needs to be extended into the twentieth century, but I was unable to find sufficient information to do so.

Women's Ordination and Reproductive Rights: I shortened both of these sections, trimming poorly constructed sentences and adding a short theological argument.

Feminine God: This was the theological notion that I encountered most in my research, and seemed to be a basis for many Christian feminist theologies. I feel that theology is the area in which this page is most lacking, and hope that my contribution sparks more additions.

Trixiecapricious (talk) 05:32, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 11:39, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

West j1 (talk) 02:52, 15 November 2016 (UTC)Ideas for Christian Feminism article - For this article, I feel like as a whole this article is pretty good but I would expand on the points and make this a more thoughtful article. I would expand on the history section and go into more depth regarding the first wave and even touch base on the second wave. I would also expand on the women in leadership roles section and expand on ideas on how women have over come barriers to get to higher roles with the church. As a whole this article is pretty good would expand on certain sections but that is it. - James R. West — Preceding unsigned comment added by West j1 (talk • contribs) 02:43, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

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Edit suggestions
There are quotes in the "Reproduction, sexuality, and religion" and Feminine of Gender-transcendent God" section, rewrite these in your own words to avoid plagiarism. The "Reproduction, sexuality, and religion" section also does not talk about differing sexualities and feminist responses to Christian sects views on these. That could be added or the section could be titled "Reproductive health" which is more fitting. A section could be added after the biblical quotes about famous women of the Bible, or it could be on the Gospel of Mary Magdalene which is not included in the Bible but was found in the 1800s. It references Mary Madgalene as one of Jesus's closest followers. Mahone m1 (talk) 20:08, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Adding Opposing Views: Roman Catholicism specifically
Hello everyone!

I am doing a project for class and I was noticing that a lot of Wiki pages have a kind of "Opposing Views" section, I was wondering what you might think of me adding a section like that but my conrtinbution would be specfically through the eyes of Roman Catholicism, so I guess it would be a sub under that heading.

Any input would be helpful! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gabrielajorrin (talk • contribs) 03:35, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

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