Talk:Christmas in the American Civil War/GA1

GA Review
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A few issues:
 * The exact dates of the American Civil War should appear in the text for those unfamiliar with the event. Perhaps in the first line: Christmas in the American Civil War (m/d/y - m/d/y) etc. etc.
 * There's no good end date for the end of the war (Appomattox is popular but inadequate).
 * I agree, but there is a general consensus among scholars and historians about the war's end and this date should be noted. Readers unfamiliar with the War need such a date as a frame: "This is the period we are talking about." Take the date from the WP article. WP articles should agree on such things. ReverendLogos (talk) 17:56, 1 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The caption under the image of Lincoln should read: "Abraham Lincoln, the President of the United States (dates), and his son Tad" (no period here because the line is not a sentence). "Abe & Tad Lincoln" is insufficient for those not familiar with American history, presidents, etc.
 * ✅-- Gen. Bedford his Forest 05:16, 1 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, the image of Lincoln belongs on the left side of the page with Lincoln facing into the article rather than away from it. Ditto for the image of Nast at the foot of the article.
 * Paragraph breaks. The text about carols in "Celebrating" section should be a stand alone paragraph. This section could be elaborated. Were any American carols or other musical compositions written during the war, whether they endured to become traditions or no? If so, note them. Also, Away in a Manger was written in 1885 and wouldn't have been sung during the War.  There are other points in the article where I feel paragraph breaks should be made.
 * I didn't see anything about other carols, but I'll look. "Away" was mentioned by the source.-- Gen. Bedford  his Forest 05:16, 1 January 2009 (UTC)


 * In the "Celebrating" section I think all the material about the soldiers' Christmas should be collected together. I've done so, if you disagree revert.
 * Cool with me-- Gen. Bedford his Forest 05:16, 1 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I think the images of hardtack and Nast should be linked to appropriate articles and replaced here with Christmas images. I've replaced hardtack with a Christmas card from the period.
 * Liked the Christmas card, but I thought a picture of hardtack would help the reader see how well it would work as an ornament. Would definitely be preferable than actually eating one of those "worm castles".-- Gen. Bedford  his Forest 05:16, 1 January 2009 (UTC)


 * There is some awkward wording here and there such as reflecting ... reflecting ... and Santa ... Santa ... Santa. Try to reword these passages without repeating the same word several times. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ReverendLogos (talk • contribs) 22:31, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Altered, used Saint Nick as synonym.-- Gen. Bedford  his Forest 05:16, 1 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Alcott's Little Women opens with Christmas during the war and its deprivations. Should her book be mentioned? Tho the book was published in 1868, Alcott would have been an eyewitness to Christmas during the war. What about other descriptions of Christmas during the Civil War by those who lived it? Twain, Whittier? What about film? Gone with the Wind has a Christmas scene during the war. All of these might be referenced in a section called "Christmas in the American Civil War in film, literature, and other media" or something like that. Such a section should be the closing one. The Nast section as a closer is weak.
 * Would you believe I've never read Little Women or watched GWTW. Given my scholarly specialty, that last one is incredible to believe, I know.  Tht's why I didn't think of it.-- Gen. Bedford  his Forest 05:16, 1 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I think this article is informative and interesting but must be significantly expanded and improved. I've done a bit of rearranging and editing but the article is still far from GA status.
 * There are GAs this long, so it's no that big of a problem. If I can find that book in "further reading", I can fill out more in case I ever go for A or FA for this article.-- Gen. Bedford  his Forest 05:16, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The topic makes a very interesting article but it deserves greater breadth. For example, something about Christmas for African Americans during the period should be investigated. Did Harriet Tubman conducted any blacks to freedom on or around Christmas? Most of her rescues were conducted during the winter months. Try to find a connection with the Christmas season. Did any Christmas traditions north or south orginate during the War? Wasn't Nast's Santa Claus refined during the period to become the modern Santa? How about Currier and Ives Christmas scenes? The article should close in something like a "Lasting influences" or "Cultural impact" section. "Art, literature, film and other media" is also a good way to close the article. The story of Longfellow's poem "Christmas Bells" should be included in a literature section rather than the carols section because the poem wasn't set to music until 1870, as noted in the WP about the carol. Soldiers and civilians wouldn't have been singing the carol during the period of the War. Alcotts opening chapters should be mentioned in a literature section. Other authors: Walt Whitman, Whittier, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Twain are possibilities. Also, letters, diaries, journals, newspaper and magazine accounts. ReverendLogos (talk) 17:56, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

ReverendLogos (talk) 19:36, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I have something around here about how slaves' Christmas was affected. Tubman was more before the war, so she wouldn't add anything to the article.  I am more interested in what actually happened during the war than in the fiction that depicts the war, so Little Women and GWTW aren't that good.  We could really use a second opinion, especially since you've made so many edits yourself to the page.-- Gen. Bedford  his Forest 03:17, 4 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree about a second opinion. IMO, the article is much too brief for GA status, considering the topic. A second opinion would be welcomed. ReverendLogos (talk) 04:20, 4 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The suggestions by ReverendLogos seem appropriate. This article has a specific focus, and one would expect some detail to emerge from that focus. At the moment there are snippets of information, but these have not yet been fully organised or developed and built upon. The closing sentence of the Lead, "In 1870, Christmas became an official Federal holiday when President Ulysses S. Grant made it so in an attempt to unite north and south." is fascinating - sadly there appears to be no further information in the main body. This is a great topic, and it does deserve development. I would agree with ReverendLogos that it is not yet ready for GA status. The war activities could be developed with more details of the war that "continued to rage", and the Celebrating section could be broken down into differing approaches to celebrating Christmas by families in the South and families in the North, as well as the celebrations by the armies. There is a fair amount of material on the internet and in books from which to build the article. At this stage of the article, there isn't yet agreement on what material is to be included and what sections are needed, let alone considering if there is simply enough detail in those sections. I think there's some progress yet needed to satisfy the interest of the general reader in this topic.  SilkTork  *YES! 20:08, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Second opinion by Dana boomer I would agree that there is still work to be done on this article before it reaches GA status. First, the web references should all have access dates. Second, some issues with prose and completeness:
 * In the War Activities section you say "There was also a military execution for desertion that the soldiers were forced to witness." Which side? Can you find a reason for why it was done on Christmas?
 * I like the idea of a section on Christmas in the ACW in film and literature. If Nast gets an entire section to himself, I'm not sure why famous authors who wrote about Christmas during the Civil War (which they themselves had lived through) should be denied even a mention. Although I disagree with Silk Tork that the way the army's celebrated needs to be expanded, I think that differences between the way families in the North and South celebrated could certainly use more work. For example, you mention that a Southern newspaper showed Santa Claus as a Northern thing that wasn't true to Southern traditions - was this a true reflection of how things were?

What is present in the article is well written and well referenced. However, I agree with the other two reviewers that there is still some information missing. Dana boomer (talk) 00:58, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * There is apparently consensus from the above three reviewers (myself, SilkTork and ReverendLogos) that this article is not sufficiently broad in coverage to become a GA. There has also been not much happening with either the article or the review for the past 7+ days. Therefore, I am going to wait a couple of days, and if I do not hear differently from anyone, I will fail the article. Dana boomer (talk) 00:27, 16 January 2009 (UTC)