Talk:Christoph Waltz/Archive 1

Waltz not Jewish
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-VANGMPd3c&feature=related

See the youtube link attached: at marker 5:20 Eli Roth, who was in Inglorious Basterds with Waltz, explains that Waltz is not a Jew. Roth then goes on to say that Waltz knows more about Judaism than anyone he knows, Waltz's son is studying to be a rabbi in Israel, he spent Yom Kippur with Waltz at his parents' house, however Waltz is not actually Jewish. I think this should be corrected to reflect Eli Roth's comments. - AJK

AJoeKid (talk) 06:50, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Der Humpink
Shouldn't it be mentioned in the filmography that it's just a parody of this clip? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oavMtUWDBTM&feature=player_embedded#! 91.33.203.213 (talk) 15:56, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Picture
We need a photo of him!! An evil-looking one (badass) preferably.88.196.229.39 (talk) 14:26, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Find one that isn't copyrighted and can be used in the public domain. XSachertortex (talk) 06:16, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

French?
I see that it is written that Waltz is fluent in French, with a reference to an online article saying he is so. But I have discovered a video of the Inglorious Basterds cast including him on the French show Le Grand Journal, and he requires an earpiece to translate the French hosts and he only speaks back in English. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzzQg2GBvr0&feature=related Fast forward to the 6:30 mark to see his ear piece and clear response to a French question in English. This really refutes him being described on Wikipedia as fluent in French. Any comments please? --98.154.46.211 (talk) 09:01, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Using the earpiece and replying in English, when his other co-stars were doing likewise, is not proof that he isn't fluent in French. If you caught the clip of him at the Oscar Nominee Luncheon, he demonstrated his language prowess where he started in German (native language), then switched back and forth between English (2nd language) to answer a question. He would often continue the answer in German or English, then have to stop and translate, continuing the answer on, then stopping and translating. I expect that it was easier for him, if he was conversing the entire day with the English-speaking cast members, to just hear and answer in English as opposed to flip-flopping languages constantly through the day, and since his colleagues were making no effort to speak French, he did not feel a need to either. He has made at least one French-speaking production in his IMDB resume also. XSachertortex (talk) 06:24, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Filmography
Why is his filmography so short? The german article lists far more movies —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.1.189.201 (talk) 14:23, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

He has nearly 100 credits in TV and in film. This should be a priority for anyone updating the page. 108.117.83.146 (talk) 06:12, 31 December 2010 (UTC) Sachertorte

Panni is still unconfirmed and he is currently filming Carnage as of 25 Feb. 2011. It is not in Pre-production. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.3.88.148 (talk) 02:32, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Please don't write that his name is pronounced
vults. Because, really, it is not.--24.85.68.231 (talk) 11:34, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Why not? From my point of view that is the closest you can without using IPA. 81.10.188.70 (talk) 12:35, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Actually, it'd be vahltz 173.55.109.150 (talk) 09:38, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * No it wouldn't be. It's a short 'a' in Waltz, not a long one. Vults is as close as it gets. --Feuerrabe (talk) 17:30, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

It's valts in IPA, VULTS in English respell. Penelope Cruz didn't say it correctly yesterday. Halle Berry did at the Golden Globes. You can listen to it here: http://www.forvo.com/word/christoph_waltz#de --85.181.231.238 (talk) 12:12, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

There's a film clip of him introducing himself in Cannes, he says, "I'm Christoph Waltz." and he says it like the dance. In German he says Vults, in English it's Waltz. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBx2gw0pqx0 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.3.88.148 (talk) 14:43, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Regarding the "did not associate with Jewish cast members"
I deleted this as it's false. Waltz did not associate with *any* cast members off of the set of Inglourious Basterds. This was due to Quentin Tarantino advising him that he wanted to catch the entire cast in surprise as to Christoph's capabilities and get their real reactions to his character. It had absolutely nothing to do with becoming immersed into Hans Landa's charter and, in interviews, he joked that while everyone went out and had a good time he was back at his hotel drinking alone.

You can see the "real reactions" to Christoph especially in the "Fake Italian" scene. For much of the cast, this was their first time working with Christoph, and the glances between Omar Doom and Eli Roth were taken at the first time they heard him speak perfect Italian. 24.3.88.148 (talk) 13:29, 27 June 2011 (UTC)Sachertorte

Pending vs. nominated
Can someone explain the edit war going on right now regarding "pending" vs. "nominated" for the 2013 Academy Awards? The nominations have been announced. What does "pending" mean in this context, anyway? Regards, Orange Suede Sofa  (talk) 19:12, 10 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Typically, "nominated" is used to indicate that a person was nominated, but did not win. "Pending" is typically used to indicate that a person was nominated, but it has not yet been determined or revealed whether or not the person won. For Django, the Academy Award, BAFTA, and Golden Globe awards have not been decided or announced yet, so they should be listed as "pending". A lot of pages, (like this one) put the "result" in a different column and use the pink/green/beige colour coding for nominated/won/pending. 99.192.88.237 (talk) 22:25, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok, that makes sense. Thanks, Orange Suede Sofa  (talk) 01:25, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Wife/Spouse
The article's Personal Life section says his wife is Jackie and another wife Judith, but the infobox says his wife is Ellie Milne. Now, is he married to 3 people? Or has he divorced one of them, two of them, or probably all three of them? If not, who is he currently married to? Has he divorced anyone at all? Is he married to all 3 of them? The marital status is ambiguous. If someone can answer my question, I can go ahead and make edits. Thank you. D437 (talk) 21:48, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

wrong pic
Isn't that Stephen Rea? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.112.151.98 (talk) 21:37, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No, it's Christoph Waltz. --Catgut (talk) 13:55, 22 January 2010 (UTC)


 * At least one of the photos is wrong! I am assuming it is the middle one without the beard.  Certainly, it is not possible that he both had a beard and had no beard at the same event. Manolan1 (talk) 13:37, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

nationality
He is NOT German! He said too many times he is Austrian, he grew up in Austria, he does not have German passport, in EU there are no passports needed and he entered the US with his Austrian citizenship and passport. This should solve all insinuations that he has something to do with Germany.DemonX (talk) 21:54, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

He's a German. Fix it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.252.125.113 (talk) 19:59, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't know who's always changing it, but the source 1 explains that he does NOT have Austrian citizenship. You can change it back the day he actually receives the Austrian citizenship. Until then he only has German citizenship and is therefore German. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.49.134.238 (talk) 16:35, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

He has now been granted honorary Austrian citizenship therefore his nationality is no longer in dispute. 108.117.83.146 (talk) 06:10, 31 December 2010 (UTC) Sachertorte

Is there a reference to him holding a US Greencard? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.3.88.148 (talk) 21:17, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Christoph Waltz`s accent is Austrian, he was born in Vienna, he grew up there, studied there, etc. there is nothing really German about him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.117.80.252 (talk) 21:35, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * "othing really German about him", exept his passport (ok now he has both, but until 201o he only had the german one)178.210.114.106 (talk) 18:47, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

He now declared a few times, that he don't want to be seen or called German. He also said a few times, that he is Austrian and also want to be called an Austrian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.255.18.128 (talk) 15:19, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * If you want Waltz then you have to take Hitler too! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.192.36.170 (talk) 20:47, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
 * which does not change the fact that until 2010 he was German citizen only and since 2010 he is German and Austrian citizen both46.5.184.215 (talk) 11:31, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

After Christoph Waltz repeatedly has declared he is Austrian and at the same time has denied being German, it seems even the German media now refers to him as an "Austrian actor". In my opinion the wording that fits best with this situation is the formulation that was found in Daniel Day-Lewis case. He has citizenships of both Ireland and Britain, but is considered a British only. So my suggestion for Christoph Waltz is: "Christoph Waltz is an Austrian actor with both Austrian and German citizenship."

If CW wouldn't have rejected the fact that he is German, the current wording "Austrian-German" would be perfect i think. But since the German citizenship apparently is just another passport for him, the article should mirror this reality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.178.43.223 (talk) 19:10, 25 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Daniel Day-Lewis is currently described as "an English actor with both British and Irish citizenship" with ongoing edits. Waltz' German passport is not just another one, but the only one he had for over 50 years - he never bothered to apply for the Austrian one until it was offered to him after his first Oscar.
 * What the article currently misses, even though it has an extra paragraph just about his Nationality: the fact that he was a German citizen being unknown to the public until 2010 and that he took on the Austrian citizenship as late as that as a result of the medial and political campaign that was triggered when this fact emerged due to investigations by journalists.
 * Also, the current section is misleading: "Waltz received Austrian citizenship in 2010 thus holding citizenships of both Austria and Germany, but considers his German passport a "legal, citizenship law banality""
 * The order of the clauses suggests that this interview was made after he got the Austrian citizenship, while in reality it happened at a time when he only had the German one. Also, it chooses to reword a single sentence quote of him and alters it. In the original he talks about him "also" getting the Austrian passport in the then near future, while his "also" having had a German passport was a legal banality (not the passport itself). It seems this was deliberately dropped according to the view of the author. This should either be fixed, removed or simply be replaced by his full quote instead of a Wikipedia interpretation. 91.61.103.108 (talk) 02:45, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

⇒The German media refers to him as Austrian-German: ARD Tagesschau → ; Süddeutsche Zeitung → ; Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung → ; Die Zeit → ; Die Welt → ; Focus → ; Handelsblatt → ; Bild → ; Bunte → ; n-tv → ; Vogue →.

Nationality: Waltz is a German national by birth, born in Vienna, Austria - who lives in Berlin, and who also received Austrian citizenship a couple of years ago.

Ethnicity: His father, Johannes Waltz, is German - his mother Austrian.

What Mr. Waltz has to say, or that he pretendet to be Austrian, doesn't really matter that much. If tomorrow he told us he was Korean, it still wasn't going to change the fact that he is German by birth and only received Austrian citizenship in 2010. So, for ca. 54 years he was a German national only, who now also holds Austrian citizenship for ca. 2-3 years. Ethnically he's half German - half Austrian. Hard, bold facts - nothing else.

I think some of the IP's here are a bit confused of what exactly belongs into the lead → 3.1. "In most modern-day cases this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident". Waltz is a citizen of both, Germany and Austria. The latter only for ca. 2-3 years. Waltz was born a German national. Waltz is a permanent resident of Berlin, Germany.

"Nationality: is the legal relationship between an individual human and a Nation state. Nationality normally confers some protection of the individual by the state, and some obligations on the individual towards the state." In Waltzs' case, for the first 54 years of his life, this Nation state was solely the state of Germany. Waltz did, for example, not have the right to participate in the political life of Austria, such as by voting or standing for election. --IIIraute (talk) 03:22, 26 February 2013 (UTC) ⇐

Waltz has apparently said his not having an Austrian passport (and a German one instead; this being before politicians asked him to become Austrian) is some sort of banality. Voting in national elections in the country you consider your own is certainly not a banality. I always assumed you can only vote in national elections in Austria if you are an Austrian citizen. Am I mistaken or does Waltz consider his inability to vote for the Austrian parliament a banality? --195.242.152.37 (talk) 12:54, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

As EU-citicen he can vote in the country he is living. If he has a french passport, but lives in Italy he can vote in Italy and France on national and municipal level. So: if he would live in Austria with a german passport, he could vote in Austria on national and municipal level (except in Vienna, because Vienna is not only a city, but also one of the nine states (Bundesländer)) But he has the austrian citicenship now, so this is irrelevant. --213.47.225.145 (talk) 14:19, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

D/M/Y?
Considering that Waltz is German-Austrian, shouldn't we be using DMY for dates instead of MDY?--Sunshineisles2 (talk) 01:09, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Christoph Waltz. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150717055602/http://www.mainpost.de/nachrichten/kulturwelt/kultur/Christoph-Waltz-spielt-Brad-Pitt-an-die-Wand-Die-Cannes-Bilanz to http://www.mainpost.de/nachrichten/kulturwelt/kultur/Christoph-Waltz-spielt-Brad-Pitt-an-die-Wand-Die-Cannes-Bilanz
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110427041841/http://www.bafta.org/awards/film/film-awards-nominations,949,BA.html to http://www.bafta.org/awards/film/film-awards-nominations,949,BA.html#jump11

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 11:43, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

name
Is his name Christopher or Christoph? It's listed as both with no explanation. Pw33n (talk) 02:01, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It's Christoph but since the name "Christopher" is much more common in English speaking countries this mistake seems to happen a lot.

Christoph BanAserfg (talk) 06:12, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Slovenian heritage
In this edit, has restored content claiming Slovenian heritage for Waltz, based on the fact that his great-great-grandfather was born in Slovenia. I believe this is a thin claim to heritage and is not relevant to this article. Since user Max98... has reverted my removal of this material, I invite them, and all other interested editors, to discuss the matter here. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 16:28, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello Wikidan61, I'm not sure this is the right way to do it (I'm a PhD, but I'm new around here). I think you either have some kind of  problem with me or with the Slavic people, because you attempted to undo whatever I explored and added as regards Slavic people, for some reason. I hope you are not a racist, but I'm sure it's just a wrong impression I'm getting out of you. You claimed the evidence on Waltz Slovenian ancestry is 'thinnest,' while I provided you with a link to the Austrian Humanities of Vienna, and there are a series of articles on Wikipedia (and the best Austrian encyclopedias), clearly not written by myself, on each and every of Waltz' ancestors up to Alojz Urbancic. You say it is not relevant, but ethnicity and origins are reported on each and every actors' article in Wikipedia. So I really don't understand what your problem is.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Max9844419087 (talk • contribs) 16:31, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * As I mentioned on my user talk page, claiming Slovenian heritage for Waltz based on the birthplace of 1 of his 16 great-great-grandparents is a pretty thin argument. Unless Waltz himself has claimed his Slovenian heritage, I believe raising it here is irrelevant. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 16:57, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I agree with the is thin and non-notable.  -  FlightTime  ( open channel ) 17:12, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

@WikiDan61 As regards Josip Belusic, my purpose was filling the article, by providing some valuable information and insights over the geopolitical situation in his time. Again, the main purpose was filling the article, if you are telling me that my work was meaningless, then it's fine, I will know better next time (it doesn't really matter to me whether Josip Belusic's article is or is not a stub. By the way, the reason why I spent 4 hours editing it in the first place was because you asked me to do so). As regards your good faith policy, do you really assume that every person who starts off on Wikipedia read all your manuals? In any case, I wasn't given the link you provided me before. As regards Chris Waltz: if I do understand you rejection of my article on Belusic (because I do understand the information provided is truthful but not strictly relevant, as its purpose was filling) I do not understand and absolutely oppose your undoing Waltz's Slovenian roots. Like I said: I provided you with a link to the Austrian humanities, you can further verify at you expenses all the links which bring up to Walt'z great-grandfather and his cousin, who was one of the greatest Slovenian authors, by creating an account on some genealogy website or going to the archives in Vienna (which I did, for other reasons of course), but again, all those links are established through other articles on Wikipedia. The fact that he is Slovenian IS important, especially because he is related to one of Slovenia's greatest poets (what I'm saying is: his relative has literally contributed to the birth of Slovenian literature and the establishment of the Slovenian language in its modern form. The poet from whom she was inspired--Preseren--might well be called 'Slovenia's Shakespeare,' or Slovenia's Dante; while Turnograjska herself (Walt'z reltive) is to Slovenia what Vittoria Colonna is to Italy. In Slovenia, there is not a more Slovenian family than the Urbancic). There are just so many articles (all actors' articles) which claim ethnicity with much, much thinner evidence and degree. So because I believe in Justitia, you would have to go and undo each and every of those before undoing Waltz's. For the record, I'm an Italian of Scottish and Dutch descent, and I have no Slovenian ties or ancestors whatsoever. Max9844419087 (talk) 17:23, 19 August 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Max9844419087 (talk • contribs) 17:14, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Please confine your comments at this talk page to issues regarding Christoph Waltz. If you wish to discuss your edits regarding Josip Belušić, please do so at Talk:Josip Belušić. If you have issues regarding interactions with other users, including myself, please address those comments at the specific user's user talk page.
 * Now, on the topic of Waltz' heritage, I would agree with your arguments if Waltz were the child, or even grandchild, of one of Slovenia's greatest poets. But being the great-great-grandchild of that person is only relevant if it has been noted by Waltz himself, or has been noted in any significant coverage of Waltz. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 18:01, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

@@WikiDan61 As regards discussing other topics, I do perfectly understand your formalism; why, this is your world, perhaps even your life, and you are either in charge or in a way more advanced position than I do here. But please understand that I'm a new user. Now please, let us address the fact that you overlooked my urge to Justice. There are so many (really, 90%) other articles which report ethnicity and origins that a) are way more distant and b) do not comprehend notable relatives such as, e.g., Slovenia's greatest female poet. It is absolutely worth mentioning: Waltz's great-grandfather was the son of a Slovenian immigrant (i.e. a person of Slovenian ethnicity who moved within the Austrian Empire and resettled in Vienna to pursue his career as a Doctor) who spoke Slovenian and, just like Waltz's mother, had a Slovenian last name. Waltz himself lost his father when he was a little kid, considers himself an Austrian, and was thus much closer to his mother and, to a lesser degree, his adoptive father then his own father, whose surname he bears. I even read somewhere that he mulled over changing his surname into Urbancic (granted, mainly due to his grandfather--who worked with Freud--and great-grandfather Viktor, rather than Urbancic's Slovenian nature). But back to my main point: the thing is absolutely worth mentioning, and I say this not only from the pov of a learned and, I like to believe, objective person, but also by weighing my claim on the same weight scale as all other Wikipedia's articles'. You say it is not worth mentioning due to this and that, but upon what do you ground your judgement? Is it written in Wikipedia's Code? I do not believe so; and, again, reality (all Wikipedia's other articles) says it is my claim which is more just and correct; that the fact that his own mother, the one real (in the strictest acceptation thereof) parent who brought him up descended directly from a Slovenian man, that her surname is Slovenian and is one of the most notable in Slovenia, and that his relative was one of Slovenia's greatest poets, is indeed worth mentioning. I do not want to bring the good faith thing up again, but remember that just as I have good faith in you (which I do) so you must have good faith in me, and believe that I am not fighting for the Urbancics, or the Slovenian, or Mr. Waltz, but for Truth, Justice and having a good and extensive article on Earth's most read encyclopedia. Max9844419087 (talk) 18:36, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * My requests for you to use other talk pages were not intended as an admonishment, but merely a request, informing you as a newcomer how we do things around here. I apologize if they came off otherwise.
 * I cannot speak to all other Wikipedia articles; you'd have to provide specific examples where you feel that a precedent has been set for including ethnic heritage about a person based on such distant relations that has not other wise been claimed by that person or been reported on in reliable sources writing about that person. The basis upon which I claim that we should not include Slovenian among Waltz' heritage is that no reliable source writing about Waltz has ever mentioned it. (If you can find sources to prove me wrong on this, please do.) I would agree with noting (based on the Austrian Biographical Lexicon entry) that Waltz is a descendant of a noted Slovenian poet, but I would stop short at writing that he is ethnically Slovenian. (I would also point you to the essay Race and ethnicity. While not an official policy, it does make cogent points about why ethnic labeling is slippery. The essence of the essay is: unless an ethnic label is crucial to understanding the subject (and in this case, it isn't), there's no point in adding it.) WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 19:06, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I take back my point about noting his relationship to Josipina Urbančič. I had not realized that the relationship was as his great-great-grandfather's first cousin. This is not at all a notable connection. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 19:45, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

They did not come off as offensive, I understand you are doing your job, and I do hope that you are assuming good faith in me just as I'm doing with you (for the record, my misassumption was due to the fact that you undid me on two different articles which both referred to Slavic people; thus, I--wrongly, I hope--thought there might have been some emotional or personal issues--because the articles were two distinct entities--but I now understand that you might have just been attempting to tutoring or something--edit: upon realizing that your bud has been spying on me [see my talk page for more] I do realize that some authors do have immoral intentions here on Wikipedia, and that they do go against their own rules to suppress information or any user that does not fit them). I do get what you are saying, and I might agree on wording the paragraph to include (at least) the fact that one of his ancestors was, in every sense of the word, of Slovenian ethnicity, and that one of his relatives was one of the greatest Slovenian poets (without including 'the greatest' of course, but merely mentioning Turnograjska and linking the name to her own article on Wikipedia. We are not claiming that Waltz be Slovenian, that would be incorrect--and I never did it or thought of doing that--we are merely saying he is of Slovenian descent. If we worded the phrase regarding his ancestor and origin of the surname more exclusively, it would sound funny, and seem a rejection or belittling of the Slovenians when compared to most other articles (btw, as regards your kind request of being more specific in this aspect, well, you can just look any American actor up; literally, any American actor). Now, I proceed with further explaining, and proving, why Waltz is of Slovenian descent (in every meaning of the word: he descended from a person born in Slovenia, who spoke Slovenian and had Slovenian culture--I understand the slipperiness of the concept, especially when it comes to Yugoslavian people, but if we were to discuss the fact that Waltz's great-grandfather--and his cousin Josipina, the poet--were Slovenian, than we would be going against the accepted meaning and extent of the word 'ethnicity' itself (mind you, not Nationality), we would have to change all Yugoslavian people's articles, from the Turnograjska's, to Ivo Andric's, to Marko Marulic's, each and every; and even if we did so, it would still be wrong. We would have to go and claim that Dante wasn't Italian...), but NOT that he (Waltz himself) is of Slovenian ethnicity (again, we could say 'his great-great- grandfather was an ethnic Slovene and he has descended from him, but that would sound strange, when compared to 'he is of Slovenian descent' to me, and would include a useless surplus of words). As I did for Waltz's article, I will cite this source, even though Waltz's genealogy up to Alojz can be verified through his grandparents' articles on Wikipedia (Rudolf ; Viktor). In the Austrian source it is stated that Alojz Urbancic was born "14. 9. 1816 in Preddvor, SLO". This is not new to me, as I had gotten to know this through other genealogical research in Trieste's and Vienna's archives (which was done for other purposes in principle, but came to regard Waltz's ancestors). At any rate, it should be noted first off that Preddvor is a small village which is and was (at least since the High Middle Ages) ethnically Slovene, and that it has just a little over 800 inhabitants. There was one and only Urbancic family in Preddvor, and if the fact that Preddvor is and was ethnically Slovene does not suffice (to prove that the Slovene-surnamed Urbancics were Slovenians), then the fact that Josipina Turnograjska- Urbancic, who was born in Preddvor and was one of the greatest authors in Slovenian language, must. Then, to further prove (when there is no need to further proving) the link between Waltz' ancestor Aljoz, who was from the same tiny village as the poet, with whom he shared the surname of the one and only Urbancic family in Preddvor, one may want to visit Vienna's, Ljubljana's and Trieste's archives. I did. There are several websites that propose subscription in order to view birth certificates, death certificates and parish registers. Although most of them require fees, I found one which is open and free to view (although the details are written in Slovene). This is not to prove that Waltz's ancestors were from Preddvor or ethnically Slovene, nor to prove they were related to the poet--which has already been proven through the Austrian Humanities' link--rather, it is meant to establish the first-cousin degree between Aljoz (the father of Waltz's great-grandfather) and the famed poet. As you can read in this page, Aljoz was born in 1816 and died in Vienna in 1891 (which matches the Austrian humanities') his occupation was 'zdravnik, primarij v bolnišnici na Dunaju' which thanks to google translate I take it means 'doctor, primary physician in Vienna.' By clicking'father' in Aljoz jr. profile, you will get to his father's Aljoz page, who was born in Preddvor July 02, 1786. Under immediate family /Brother of: click 'other' and then Janez-Nepomuk-Urbančič, from thence, look among his immediate family, and there you'll find Josipina Toman (Urbančič), Turnograjska, the famed poet. Thus the fact that Waltz's ancestors were Slovenian is proved beyond reasonable doubt, being further pedant about it would mean jeopardizing the way we look at ethnicity and, thus, the way we understand the world, which goes beyond the scope of Waltz's article as well as of this talk. The fact that one of his relatives was one of the most famed Slovenian poets further highlights the Slovenian heritage of the Urbancics (again, not of Waltz's himself, who might or might not embrace his Slovenian roots, but who, by all means, is of Slovenian descent). Finally, one thing I forgot to mention, is that the fact that he is partly of Slovenian descent must be reported not only because it is factual and one of his relatives was one of Slovenia's most famed authors, but also because it is the only foreign roots Waltz--a Germanic of half Austrian and half German descent--has. Juxtaposed to that, this fact gains even more importance. Btw, your point was absolutely right. You should be more careful mate. Max9844419087 (talk) 20:45, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * That was a lot of writing that I chose not to digest. I do not doubt that Waltz can verifiably be linked to Josipina Urbancic as the great-great-grandson of her cousin. I also can see clearly that you think this is an important fact about his life. Just as clearly, I do not think this is an important fact about his life. What you or I think is largely irrelevant here. The point here is whether Waltz thinks it's important enough to have ever made a point of it in any of his public speaking (or for that matter, whether he's even aware of the connection), or whether any reliable source writing about Waltz has thought it important enough to note. For this matter, I discount the writing of the Austrian Biographical Lexicon, which appears to have sought to add interest to Viktor Urbantschitsch's biography by noting his relationship to a currently popular actor. Rather, we would need to see anyone writing about Waltz who bothered to point out this relationship to Urbancic. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 21:10, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

I feel a lot of hypocrisy when you accuse me of having an interest in this, according to the very principle you mentioned a few replies above. By saying that in encyclopedic material we should talk about what articles' subjects want us to talk about, you show that you do not understand the purpose and function of an ecyclopedia, but would rather change facts to please subjects or your own likings (e.g. Slavs, non-Slavs). It is proven that Waltz is of Slovenian descent through his mother, and it is proven that he is related to the poet Josipina Turnograjska Urbančič. This is a fact and must and is and shall remain reported. Since you flipped that card of me yourself in the last comment, I will remind you once again that you must keep your own likings out of Wikipedia. It is not ethical, nor just. Again, the fact that his relative was an important poet should be reported alongside the Slovenian roots of his mother, because this is from any point of view (mine, yours, Waltz's) an important and interesting fact per se; the importance (to Wikipedia) of the custom of reporting a subject's notable relatives (even if very distant ones) can be evinced in each and every article in Wikipedia, which treats subjects that indeed have notable relatives (just as the importance of the custom of reporting one's ethnicity can be evinced in any person's article across the board. Perhaps the problem is that somebody--and I'm not necessarily saying that it is you--deems being Scottish or Italian more important or desirable than being Slovene). The fact that this relative was, in Waltz's case, one of Slovenia's most famous poets, should definitely be reported. If anything, as trivia alongside the proven Slovene roots of his mother (née Urbancic). Max9844419087 (talk) 21:30, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to engage in your WikiLawyering any further. I and one other editor have already disagreed with you. Unless another editor comes along who agrees with you, you will have failed to gain consensus for this edit. Beyond that, I'm out. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 21:35, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Damn amazing, you, an editor with two days tenure and a grand total of 148 edits telling an established editor of twelve+ years and 90,000+ edits, that they don't understand. LOL. - FlightTime  ( open channel ) 21:40, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

I'm out as well, and if that'll be the final decision, I will deem it wrong, but I will accept it. Because I do accept reality. Plus, if you think that it is just, and you are okay with it, then I'm totally okay with it as well. I only hope that, by the very veritable principles of Wikipedia, you will not attempt to delete this talk or try and dissociate from it in the future. So that it may be forever for all to see. Max9844419087 (talk) 21:51, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I suggest that the Slovene heritage be mentioned briefly next to his mother's name, and that the genealogical relationship be explained in a footnote, with sources; for example: "... Elisabeth Urbancic, an Austrian costume designer of Slovene descent and distant relative of Josipina Urbančič. Josipina Urbančič, one of the first Slovene female poets and composers, was Alojz's first cousin.>" Doremo (talk) 03:17, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I support Doremo's suggestion, a footnote is a great solution for such distant ancestry.
 * Note to other editors: Max9844419087 canvassed :slwiki editors with this issue (myself included), my comment is a response to that. — Yerpo Eh? 07:25, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Too much hassle about some tiny, but very interesting biographical facts. I appreciate Wikipedia for information you hardly find elsewhere, be it in the main text, footnotes, categories, wikidata, or talk page. Thanks Max9844419087 for bringing the information on Waltz's remote Slovene ancestors in evidence. I have added it in the Slovene language Wikipedia article on Waltz and Josipina Urbančič - Turnograjska. Hope this will not rise Slovene and Slavic pride too much :) --Hladnikm (talk) 07:39, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I thank all of you for your help on this issue. Especial thanks to for your work on Slovenian Wikipedia and the time it took you. I do support Doremo's suggestion as well.

Max9844419087 (talk) 09:08, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * In Doremo's solution:
 * : Waltz's maternal great-grandfather was Viktor Urbantschitsch, the son of Alois Urbantschitsch (a.k.a. Alojz Urbančič), who was born in Preddvor, today Slovenia. Josipina Urbančič, one of the first Slovene female poets and composers, was Alojz's first cousin.
 *  would be, while  is a bit more problematic - interpretation of birth certificates and other such documents isn't accepted (as per WP:OR), but I found a secondary source in Slovene which confirms it: . This, I believe, could be accepted in good faith. — Yerpo Eh? 09:14, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Yes Yerpo, I for one agree on that solution. I hope one of you guys'll be able to do work. I'm new around here and it is a miracle I'm even being able to reply correctly in this talk. As a matter of fact, I'm not even sure about that. LOL

Max9844419087 (talk) 09:22, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

I have added the footnote as suggested by. I agree that this connection to a noted poet is, at the very most, worthy of a footnote. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 11:32, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
 * WikiDany61 has failed to implement what we all agreed upon, what Doremo's proposed, that "the Slovene heritage be mentioned briefly next to his mother's name, and that the genealogical relationship be explained in a footnote," therefore, I've undone WikiDany61's edits

Max9844419087 (talk) 12:51, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm exiting this discussion. Clearly my interaction with you has been unsuccessful. I'll leave it to other editors to manage this issue. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:22, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

I agree and back your decision to get out. You should be more careful next time: you first acknowledged (a few replies above) that Waltz' relationship to the poet should be noted (to then take it back in your next reply). Then, you accepted Doremo's proposal, only to go and modify Waltz's article to have it your way. Unwilling to recant and contradict yourself a second time, you leave. Finally, I would like to point out that while I'm sorry for having been rhetorical in most of my previous replies, this was after you denied facts (which I proved through valid sources) and attempted to suppress Waltz's established Slovenian descent through his mother, as well as his distant but by all means notable relation to one of Slovenia's greatest poets. Max9844419087 (talk) 13:44, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't see how his extremely distant relationship to Josipina is notable at all. I am related to a number of famous people if you go back enough, so are you, so is pretty much everybody. Unless Waltz addresses this relationship and it is picked up by reliable sources I don't see how it should be included at all. For his Slovenian Heritage it is (I believe 1/16th of his heritage) a very small amount, by not including the rest of his heritage are we also trying to hide his heritage of those ethnicity's. I say we don't include any of it, but if we have to then User:WikiDan61's edit is the option I see that gives appropriate weight to this issue. VViking Talk Edits 13:56, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Then, if you were a notable person and had a page on Wikipedia, those famous relative should be reported. But you don't. So that's not at issue here. As already pointed out several times, according to Wikipedia's very approach, ethnicity and origins are always noted in a subject's article, especially when they are peculiar and of a single strain present in an individual who would otherwise be of one single ethnic group (e.g. an American of Scottish descent with an Italian ancestor, or with a native American, or African American one). The fact that you are saying we should "include the rest of his heritage" shows that you have not even read Waltz's article on Wikipedia or made any resource about him: Waltz's other roots are one and only: Germanic (Austrian and German), both his Austrian and German roots are noted in his article. His mother has a Slovenian surname, her grandfather was son to a Slovenian immigrant, and the first-grade cousin of the latter was Slovenia's most famed female poet. The Slovenian roots of his mother should be reported.

Max9844419087 (talk) 14:09, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Footnote? I have been told multiple times by User:Max984419087 that this solution by User:Doremo is what was agreed to on the talk page


 * : Waltz's maternal great-grandfather was Viktor Urbantschitsch, the son of Alois Urbantschitsch (a.k.a. Alojz Urbančič), who was born in Preddvor, today Slovenia  Josipina Urbančič, one of the first Slovene female poets and composers, was Alojz's first cousin.
 *  would be "Urbantschitsch, Viktor von (1847–1921), Otologe". Österreichisches Biographisches Lexikon. Retrieved 2020-08-20., while <SOURCE2> is a bit more problematic - interpretation of birth certificates and other such documents isn't accepted (as per WP:OR), but I found a secondary source in Slovene which confirms it: Kurillo, Jurij (2020). "Preddvorski graščaki Urbančiči" (PDF). Isis (8–9): 69–71.


 * This includes this edit summary which edit clearly removed the footnote. VViking Talk Edits 14:45, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

No, we all agreed on Doremo's suggestion, namely

I suggest that the Slovene heritage be mentioned briefly next to his mother's name, and that the genealogical relationship be explained in a footnote, with sources; for example: "... Elisabeth Urbancic, an Austrian costume designer of Slovene descent and distant relative of Josipina Urbančič.<SOURCE><FOOTNOTE: Waltz's maternal great-grandfather was Viktor Urbantschitsch, the son of Alois Urbantschitsch (a.k.a. Alojz Urbančič), who was born in Preddvor, today Slovenia.<SOURCE> Josipina Urbančič, one of the first Slovene female poets and composers, was Alojz's first cousin.<SOURCE>>" Doremo (talk) 03:17, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

VViking I think the edit you are referring to was the result of WikDany61 either misunderstanding or neglecting all points of the agreement (he did agree as well). The Slovenian heritage of his mother should "be mentioned briefly next to his mother's name," while "the genealogical relationship be explained in a footnote," for example "... Elisabeth Urbancic, an Austrian costume designer of Slovene descent and distant relative of Josipina Urbančič," etc. So somebody should go and modify the entry so that it abides by the decision: i.e. mentioning briefly his mother heritage and connection to the poet, with the genealogical connection well explained in a footnote. You should look some replies above, what you are referring to is Yerpo's proposal on how the footnote should look like, but the original agreement was that his heritage and connection with the poet be mentioned, albeit briefly. I believe this was implied in Yerpo's proposal. Max9844419087 (talk) 16:20, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
 * So my question still stands where is the footnote. It was removed. And apparently not everybody agrees with you. Since WikDany61 wrote it differently he probably doesn't agree with it (no matter how many times you say he agreed), I disagree with the way it is written now, so a consensus has not been reached. VViking Talk Edits 16:35, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

VViking Again, WikiDany61 agreed himself, even if he recants now, four of us did, three of you don't. There is a very long talk here, you may understand things better by carefully reading all the replies above.. Since the heritage of Waltz's mother is proven, and his relationship with the poet interesting (according to Wikipedia's standards), and heritage is always reported here on Wikipedia, especially when it's one single strain and it affects one's last name, rendering it peculiar in a given context--such as Waltz's mother Urbancic in Austria--the page should remain as it is or be modified according to the agreement. The footnote you are talking about is probably in one of WikiDany's last edits, you may leave (that is, add) the footnote and shorten the paragraph wherein Waltz's Slovenian roots and relatives are described (as it stands now), so long as you rewrite it and mention (briefly) his mother's heritage and relationship with the Slovenian poet. Max9844419087 (talk) 17:34, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * If he's indeed related to author Josipina Turnograjska, I think that's interesting and relevant information about his family background, and I don't see why leave it out, especially since it doesn't take more than half a line. Viator slovenicus (talk) 18:07, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you for chiming in Viator slovenicus, your opinion is appreciated. I absolutely agree, what is more, Waltz's article is scant when compared to other actors' (even less famous ones). Now it's five votes against three (even though the first and main objector did agree at first). As for proving their relation (together with directing you to this source in Slovenian, provided by Yerpo [69-71]) I will repost my reply wherein I further prove said relation:

''"[...]As I did for Waltz's article, I will cite this source, even though Waltz's genealogy up to Alojz can be verified through his grandparents' articles on Wikipedia (Rudolf ; Viktor). In the Austrian source it is stated that Alojz Urbancic was born "14. 9. 1816 in Preddvor, SLO". This is not new to me, as I had gotten to know this through other genealogical research in Trieste's and Vienna's archives (which was done for other purposes in principle, but came to regard Waltz's ancestors). At any rate, it should be noted first off that Preddvor is a small village which is and was (at least since the High Middle Ages) ethnically Slovene, and that it has just a little over 800 inhabitants. There was one and only Urbancic family in Preddvor, and if the fact that Preddvor is and was ethnically Slovene does not suffice (to prove that the Slovene-surnamed Urbancics were Slovenians), then the fact that Josipina Turnograjska- Urbancic, who was born in Preddvor and was one of the greatest authors in Slovenian language, must. Then, to further prove (when there is no need to further proving) the link between Waltz' ancestor Aljoz, who was from the same tiny village as the poet, with whom he shared the surname of the one and only Urbancic family in Preddvor, one may want to visit Vienna's, Ljubljana's and Trieste's archives. I did. There are several websites that propose subscription in order to view birth certificates, death certificates and parish registers. Although most of them require fees, I found one which is open and free to view (although the details are written in Slovene). This is not to prove that Waltz's ancestors were from Preddvor or ethnically Slovene, nor to prove they were related to the poet--which has already been proven through the Austrian Humanities' link--rather, it is meant to establish the first-cousin degree between Aljoz (the father of Waltz's great-grandfather) and the famed poet. As you can read in this page, Aljoz was born in 1816 and died in Vienna in 1891 (which matches the Austrian humanities') his occupation was 'zdravnik, primarij v bolnišnici na Dunaju' which thanks to google translate I take it means 'doctor, primary physician in Vienna.' By clicking on 'father' in Aljoz jr. profile, you will get to his father's Aljoz page, who was born in Preddvor July 02, 1786. Under immediate family /Brother of: click 'other' and then Janez-Nepomuk-Urbančič, from thence, look among his immediate family, and there you'll find Josipina Toman (Urbančič), Turnograjska, the famed poet."''

EDIT: upon reading through the reliable and valid Slovenian source cited above, I realize re-posting my reply was completely useless, as the relation between Waltz and the poet and the Slovene ethnicity of his mother's great-grandfather are established therein. The source even specifically mentions Waltz and describes his career as an actor--this was the main objection of WikiDany61, i.e. that although we know and can prove that his mother has Slovenian roots and he is related to the poet, we do not have a source that treats this while mentioning Waltz specifically as well (which actually wasn't correct either, considering the source I posted in the first place) well, now we do. Max9844419087 (talk) 19:15, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * To clarify: my position is that Waltz's Slovene heritage is too distant and minute for it to be mentioned explicitly in the main text. I believe a footnote is sufficient, so I made the revision accordingly. — Yerpo Eh? 09:09, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Yerpo, then your position is not that of the majority; if you disagree, there's still five of us and four of you. The settlement we initially agreed upon was Doremo's proposal. Since the statement is true, well sourced, it abides by Wikipedia's standards, and that is decision of the majority, I'm going to revert your edit. If you further revert it I will consider yours an edit war from your part. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Max9844419087 (talk • contribs) 09:26, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * you're misinterpreting opinions, and it is you who is edit-warring here (reverting many editors' actions in rapid sequence). I reinstated the footnote while keeping the explicit mention of Slovene heritage in the text, this also satisfies Doremo's opinion. Please discuss before reverting again. — Yerpo Eh? 10:30, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Yerpo Yerpo, I hardly think I misinterpreted any, although I do acknowledge that many people changed their minds and recanted throughout this talk. You yourself agreed on Doremo's proposal at first. If you hadn't read it through and carefully pondered it, thus misinterpreting it, then it can't possibly be my fault. As for edit-warring, since you changed, and were about to change one more time the paragraph according to what you thought was right, going against the agreement made by the group, you would've been at fault. However, I see you edited the page as per agreement, which indeed is exactly what we agreed upon, as well as a via media between the parties. Finally, I report that I just noticed that Waltz's page signals an error over some something (some trouble with the references, I believe). I do not know how to fix it, so you or anyone who's able please check it out and fix it. Thanks.

Max9844419087 (talk) 11:45, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I think this is fine the way it is written at this moment. Checking the talkpage before reading the text, I thought that the information as stand-alone is too distant, but with the section discussing his extended family, mentioning Josipina in a footnote is a nice touch. Let's leave it this way. --Tone 16:41, 21 August 2020 (UTC)