Talk:Christopher Dorner shootings and manhunt/Archive 3

Manifesto for killings
At the time I was participating in a couple of online forums and was wondering if it was worth noting that the manifesto reported by some media outlets was in fact an edited version with several glaring anomalies uploaded onto pastebin for pranks, by certified idiots. It's even fair to say that people looking to read this so-called manifesto may come across the edited copy.

Is it relevant? 2A02:C7F:A006:2300:4C79:7BEA:7884:FD9D (talk) 09:38, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
 * It does not seem relevant to the article but your notice here on the talk page should do. Those interested enough in the topic to be looking for a copy of the manifesto likely will discover this talk page section. The external links section of the Wikipedia article included a link to what's claimed to be a copy of the Dorner manifesto. Unfortunately, that one is hosted on a personal blog by someone with a clear bias. We have no way of knowing if what's on that blog is an accurate copy of what Dorner originally posted, particularly as there are many versions that all claim to be the original unredacted manifesto. I have changed the external links item to instead use the manifesto that's posted on the Los Angles Times web site which should be a WP:RS. While the LA Times copy it has various names redacted I don't think we loose much from an encyclopedic viewpoint.. --Marc Kupper&#124;talk 07:32, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Assumed responsibility
Given that the article is titled "Christopher Dorner shootings and manhunt", and that no one else is believed to be responsible, and since there's no BLP issue with making a direct accusation, I think it's inappropriate to phrase the article as if Dorner was merely a suspect. It's not as if there's an alternate theory of the crime. So I made a some minor changes to assume that Dorner was the person responsible, and also to simplify the grammar. Felsic2 (talk) 05:31, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Misidentification of terrorism
While no universal definition of terrorism is established, the Academic Consensus Definition is considered the gold standard. No international definition has been ratified but neither the ACD nor US federal law (US code 113B § 2331) describe terrorism in a way that is comparable to Dorner's actions. While legal ambiguity in this is used typically so that political leadership can denounce opposition of all sorts as terrorism, the standard maintained in the US plainly does not apply here. Ergo, this incident is incorrectly categorized as domestic terrorism, even if certain emotionally laden officers would have told media otherwise at the time. I would like this to be reviewed, but absent any further comment I will go ahead and make the change in several days in keeping with accuracy on Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.93.227.7 (talk) 03:11, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

Reversion of edits by 24.19.54.27
This batch of edits were recently made by a user at 24.19.54.27. I've had to revert the bulk of these changes for a number of reasons. Most of the issues centered on tone, POV, grammar, phrasing, reading comp issues, and so forth.


 * Status quo: They then shot pyrotechnic tear gas canisters into the cabin, which resulted in the cabin catching fire. Such devices are nicknamed "burners", as the heat generated by the pyrotechnic reaction often causes a fire. Shortly thereafter, a single gunshot from the cabin was heard.
 * IP edit: Afterwards, pyrotechnic tear gas canisters were fired into the cabin, which caused the cabin to catch fire. Similar devices are nicknamed "burners", as the heat generated by the pyrotechnic reaction often causes fires. Shortly thereafter, a single gunshot was heard from the cabin."
 * We went from an active voice indicating that police shot tear gas into the cabin, to a passive phrasing suggesting the tear gas was mysteriously fired into the cabin. Not a good call. It's the difference between "Peter stole a cookie" and "a cookie was stolen". Re: "Similar devices are nicknamed 'burners'" No, those specific devices are nicknamed burners.


 * Status quo: Law enforcement experts differ on whether using pyrotechnic devices to end the standoff, instead of waiting Dorner out, was justified.
 * IP edit: There is controversy from experts and Law Enforcement officers over whether using pyrotechnic devices to end the standoff, instead of waiting Dorner out, was justified.
 * Clunky. "There is controversy"? What does that mean? It's clearer to say "Law enforcement experts differ" or "disagree" if you like. Also "Law Enforcement" is not a proper noun and should not be capitalized. Also, how did we go from one narrow, specific group of "Law enforcement experts" to two groups comprising "experts and Law Enforcement officers"? It's like we've fabricated an additional party to this controversy.


 * Also on that day, San Bernardino County Sheriff John McMahon said that deputies did not intentionally burn down the cabin. IP editor changed "said" to "claimed". I've reverted this per WP:CLAIM as it implies that Wikipedia doubts the statement. Comes across as subtle POV. The editor justified the change as "Legal Language", but I have no idea what the editor thinks that means. We're not required by any law to say "claimed" instead of "said". Restoring "said".
 * Status quo: This was rejected and with the case set to go to trial in August 2014 they reached an agreement in July 2014 for a $1.8 million settlement paid by the city of Torrance to Perdue.
 * IP edit: This was rejected and the case went to trial in August 2014 for an agreement in July 2014 of a $1.8 million settlement paid by the city of Torrance to David Perdue. This clunky phrasing makes zero sense and is based on a major reading comprehension error. How do we go to trial in August and then achieve a settlement a month earlier? Settlements are what two parties agree to so they don't have to go to trial. What we are trying to say is that there was a trial looming in August, and a settlement was reached a month before the trial date. The IP editor somehow interpreted the passage to mean that a trial was held. This mistake is fascinating to me, given the extraordinarily condescending edit summary the IP left here about someone else's writing. Also we don't need to Say Perdue's first name again. We already established it. See WP:SURNAME. Restoring previous version.


 * In these edits, from a grammatical standpoint, "The victim's attorney claimed," should have been plural possessive, i.e. "the victims' attorney" since there were two victims, Hernandez and Carranza. But it's a totally arbitrary and needless edit, since it's clear from "their attorney" that we are referring to the people from the previous sentence, and pointing out that they are victims just comes across as subtle editorializing.
 * In the same edits further down there are other problems.
 * Status quo: Police claim that Perdue's pickup truck "matched the description" of the one belonging to Dorner. However, the Los Angeles Times reported that the vehicle involved was once again a different make and color to that of the suspect's, and that Perdue "looks nothing like" the suspect.
 * IP edit: Law enforcement officials claim that the pickup trucks both, "matched the description" of the one belonging to Dorner. However, the Los Angeles Times reported that both vehicles involved were a different make and color to that of the suspect's, and that neither Perdue; Hernandez, or Corranza, resemble the suspect.
 * This is a serious reading comp failure. In this paragraph, we're talking about a totally different incident involving Perdue, and the IP editor changed the language to reflect observations that include Purdue plus Hernandez and Carranza. This is a bad editorial call, since the LA Times is speaking only about Purdue in the article and is speaking only about the lack of resemblance of Purdue's truck to Dorner's and only about the lack of resemblance between Purdue and Dorner. Hernandez and Carranza aren't mentioned in this article. Oh, and the IP editor misspelled Carranza's name.

There were probably other changes I reverted as well, but the point is, the edits were fraught with problems. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:26, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just modified 5 external links on Christopher Dorner shootings and manhunt. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.suu.edu/Athletics/Football/%24TEAM.HTM
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130603152747/http://www.10news.com/news/investigations/us-navy-releases-records-of-triple-shooting-suspect-christopher-dorner02072013 to http://www.10news.com/news/investigations/us-navy-releases-records-of-triple-shooting-suspect-christopher-dorner02072013
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130603152747/http://www.10news.com/news/investigations/us-navy-releases-records-of-triple-shooting-suspect-christopher-dorner02072013 to http://www.10news.com/news/investigations/us-navy-releases-records-of-triple-shooting-suspect-christopher-dorner02072013
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-lapd-dorner-20140204%2C0%2C6306407.story
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130207222524/http://ktla.com/2013/02/07/read-christopher-dorners-so-called-manifesto/ to http://ktla.com/2013/02/07/read-christopher-dorners-so-called-manifesto/

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External links modified
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I have just modified 4 external links on Christopher Dorner shootings and manhunt. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130227045151/http://laist.com/2013/02/07/christopher_dorners_manifesto_in_fu.php to http://laist.com/2013/02/07/christopher_dorners_manifesto_in_fu.php
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130216053521/http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_LAPD_REVENGE_KILLINGS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT to http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_LAPD_REVENGE_KILLINGS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130227045151/http://laist.com/2013/02/07/christopher_dorners_manifesto_in_fu.php to http://laist.com/2013/02/07/christopher_dorners_manifesto_in_fu.php
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130211031503/http://www.pe.com/local-news/local-news-headlines/20130207-dorner-manhunt-career-woes-perceived-racism-fuel-ex-cops-anger.ece to http://www.pe.com/local-news/local-news-headlines/20130207-dorner-manhunt-career-woes-perceived-racism-fuel-ex-cops-anger.ece

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Semi-protected edit request on 12 June 2020
You are whitewashing facts. Maybe you should include details about his life and career as a police officer which led to his writing of the manifesto and war against the lapd. 207.144.144.240 (talk) 23:13, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. --allthefoxes (Talk) 00:38, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Change 'Gunman' header to 'Background' to be more consistent with other Wikipedia articles of similar nature
I was wondering if there was a better convention than 'Gunman' for the heading of the section on Dorner's background. For example, the Wikipedia article on the Columbine Massacre uses 'Background', alternatively Ted Kaczynski's article is more biographical and has a header, very similar in content to the one on Dorner, which has 'Early Life' as the header. The 2017 Las Vegas Shooting article also uses 'Background'. I think 'Background' would be most appropriate and also more consistent with similar articles.

P6124088482 (talk) 18:54, 12 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I made the requested changes to have more consistency with other similar articles, as you have suggested. If you have any questions, please contact me at my talk page. Ian Manka 19:07, 13 June 2020 (UTC)