Talk:Christos Tsoutsouvis

Page protected
I have locked the page for 24 hours in order to stop your edit warring. Both of you need to come to the talk page and justify your position with evidence and get consensus. Remember that edit warring is a blockable offense. -- MelanieN (talk) 00:44, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

My claim: there is no evidence that Christos Tsoutsouvis was an anarchist in the content of this article. In the contrast it is well known that he was a far left militant who participated in ELA. So i suggest to remove the category of greek anarchists unless a RS says so. I am very sorry about edit warring.Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 01:06, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

I remember that MelanieN, but according to WP:BRD, the one who has to establish consensus in the talk Page, it is not me, it is Αντικαθεστωτικός. As for the real issue, we have do give the unsourced text a chance per WP:USI. After leaving ELA, he created "Anti-state Struggle " which has anarchist's connotation, to say the least- and there has been an anarchist group by his name. Trying to find RS in a quick search, I was astonished by the lack of RS on Chr. Tsoutsouvis, so maybe the article should be nominated for AFD. There is a template in the article about notability. Cinadon36 (talk) 05:31, 26 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Also there was a punk rock song about him. I hope that there is no claim that he was a punk rock musician :) I think your arguments are pure original research and now you want to delete the article when one day before you just reverted my contribution. I fear that your aim is not the article. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 06:21, 26 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Please read WP:AGF. As for the AFD, have you spotted a single RS that deals with Tsoutsouvis to a substantial extent? Dedicating a chapter maybe? Not me. Cinadon36 (talk) 06:25, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but i won't follow you to this Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 06:30, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Cinadon, when you are edit warring with someone, you BOTH need to go to the talk page and explain your edits. Not, as the two of you seemed to be doing, saying in edit summaries "go to the talk page!" "no, YOU go to the talk page!" Both of you were at WP:3RR and in danger of a block if you did it again. So now that you are talking to each other we know what the issues are. As I understand it, your disagreement is over whether to include the category "Greek anarchists" or not. Cinadon's argument is that it has been in the article for a long time so it can't be removed without consensus - is that right? Αντικαθεστωτικός's argument is that there is nothing in the text to support calling him an anarchist - is that right? So you have established what your differences are, and Cinadon is looking for a source to support anarchism in the article. I think you understand each other now and you are on your way to consensus - namely, either add it to the article or remove it from the categories. Good work. -- MelanieN (talk) 16:41, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
 * P.S. Oh, and WP:3RR still applies, so don't start up again with the edit warring. You should not make any further edits to the article on this issue until the two of you have agreed. -- MelanieN (talk) 16:45, 26 February 2019 (UTC)


 * MelanieN thanks for your intervention. Yeap, that was my argument. I think that the one who is making a new change and gets reverted, he has the burden to go to Talk Page, per WP:BRD. To be honest the discussion is a little bit pointless as there is no RS to address Christos Tsoutsouvis in a meaningful way. So I 'll propose the article for deletion. Hope it 's ok. Cinadon36 (talk) 16:51, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
 * When you are edit warring it is the burden of BOTH parties to undertake discussion. It doesn't matter who starts the discussion, just do it. Arguing with each other in edit summaries is only going to wind up with somebody getting blocked. (Remember: WP:Edit warring is against WP's rules, no matter if you are right or wrong. "But I was right!" is not a defense.) One simple resolution of this case would be that you could simply agree to let that category be deleted for lack of support in the text. As for deletion, that's up to you; you don't need my or anyone's permission. I assume that by "propose the article for deletion" you are talking about WP:AfD. This article would certainly not qualify for WP:PROD. -- MelanieN (talk) 17:04, 26 February 2019 (UTC)


 * MelanieN i fear that maybe Cinadon36 is trying to find excuses to revert my work as i have informed an administrator for that reason. Now when he can't support at all his argument, now he proposed to delete this article. Please remove the category of Category:Greek anarchists from this person until a RS is provided that cites him as an anarchist. Please check also here where he also reverted me for remove this category an anarchist poet without any RS too.
 * I am most thankfull for your help. (please consider that i am weak at English).Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 17:21, 26 February 2019 (UTC)


 * That is an ad hominem argument you keep repeating in various discussions (see permalink in this Talk Page. Please stop commenting on my "intentions". You have to WP:AGF (as I am trying to do). I tried to find a RS on Tsoutsouvis life, but I found none. There is a tag for notability since 2017. That is the simple explanation (See Occam's Razor). Cinadon36 (talk) 17:49, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't care about your intentions. Your acts are obvious. 1. You reverted me without explanations 2. When MelanieN questioned your acts, you were saying obvious original researh arguments that didn't repeat them twice. 3. Now you want to delete the article cause you were wrong from the beginning. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 18:02, 26 February 2019 (UTC)


 * I did not revert without explanation, I explained in my edit summaries the reasons I reverted., . You said you dont care about my intentions, but you do speculate on them ("Now you want to delete the article cause you were wrong from the beginning"). So, having in mind the history of POV-accusations (listed here), I have to warn you that next time you comment on me or my "intentions" I am going to ANI. Focus on arguments, not on users. Cinadon36 (talk) 18:23, 26 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Don't threat me all the time. You keep following me, you are reverting my contribution with this kind of arguments he created "Anti-state Struggle " which has anarchist's connotation, to say the least- and there has been an anarchist group by his name(!!!), and you are threating me all the time. This is harassment. Do as you will, don't threat me again. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 18:37, 26 February 2019 (UTC)


 * It is not a threat, it is a warning. I do not want to go to WP, but I 'll have to protect myself from the continuation of such ad hominem accusations. Cinadon36 (talk) 18:41, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Notability

 * Memoirs of the most prominent Greek terrorist D. Koufontinas of Revolutionary Organization 17 November
 * Alexis Papahelas 's book folder 17N.

I think that they are RS. Especially the 2nd. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 19:52, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Koufontinas is certainly not RS. A. Papahelas's book is not about Tsoutsouvis. Papahelas (a journalist) examines another terrorist group in Greece (17 November) and as far as I can understand, he does not dedicate a chapter on Tsoutsouvis. Have in mind that merely mentioning Tsoutsouvis is not enough to pass WP:GNG criteria. GNG states: If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list.Cinadon36 (talk) 20:00, 26 February 2019 (UTC)