Talk:Chthonic (band)

Pronounciation of 閃靈樂團
I'm just curious how the hanzi name of Chthonic (閃靈樂團) sounds when spoken. :) In pinyin it would be something like shǎnlíng(lè/luò/yào/yuè/liáo...?)tuán, from what I understand (which of the lè/luò/yào/yuè/liáo is correct?), but in taiwanese I reckon it sounds different... also, what does it "mean"... if anything. --Unsound 15:01, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Babel Fish spit this out: Dodges the spirit philharmonic orchestra. Their MySpace states this:  "CHTHONIC is derived from the Greek god of the underworld with the phonetic translation into Mandarin as Shan-ling." So maybe Shan-Ling is just "Chthonic" and the rest is like a subtitle? --Infosocialist 05:34, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * What babel fish says is hardly relevant at all. ;) Well, I had not read that, so it's nice that you point it out. 閃靈 (shǎnlíng) meaning literally Chthonic wasn't what I had expected, but it makes sense of course. As A-giau points out below, 樂團 means "band". In europe we don't call our bands "Dimmu Borgir-band" and such, but I guess it's a language thing. --Unsound 15:38, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


 * 樂團(yuètuán) simply means "band". In Taiwanese it'd be "Siám-lêng Ga̍k-thoân".  A-giau 07:52, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I figured the last two characters out since I wrote that. Thanks for the info on the taiwanese pronounciation! --Unsound 15:38, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Chthonic only use the two characters "閃靈" in their official site and such...so should the -樂團 really be added? --Jacob 23:53, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Even though some of the songs are in Taiwanese, we usually pronounce "閃靈" in Mandarin Chinese here in Taiwan. I've never heard anyone pronouncing it in Taiwanese. And I think few people regard "閃靈" as phonetic translation of Chthonic because "閃靈" does have some meaning in Chinese and it doesn't have the "appearance" which most phonetic translated Chinese words have. "樂團" is usually added as part of bands' names in Taiwan, although we often omit it when speaking or when not in a formal context. It's probably because many band chose words that have meanings as their name, and we want to be clear that we're referring to a band.--Yel D&#39;ohan (talk) 17:13, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect Reuters report
They [reported] today that Ozzy Osbourne was a member of the band
 * After 14 failed attempts at joining the United Nations using media campaigns and presidential appeals, Taiwan is turning to a local goth-style rock band backed by Ozzy Osbourne in its quest for membership to the world body. The band, named ChthoniC, will travel to at least 80 cities in four countries by the end of the year, supported in part by the Taiwan government, which is providing pro-U.N. literature and a slogan-painted truck.

—Wasabe3543 17:46, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I do not believe (according to that passage) that they were implying Ozzy Osbourne is a member of the band. I believe that they were saying Ozzy Osbourne backed the band in their movement, as in, trying to provide support and assisting them in their struggle for recognition. I hope that helps!--Jacob 12:44, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * They got two descriptions wrong in that report ;)JanderVK (talk) 11:06, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Taiwanese Identification
What is this Taiwanese Identification? There's no wikipage by that name and google doesn't know either? Is it supposed to be Taiwanese Independence? Foolip 10:20, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Genre
This article lists Chthonic as a "melodic black metal" band, but I think they better fit, and are most often labelled as "symphonic black metal". Any input? --Jacob 23:41, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

depends which album... their latest is obviously symphonic black metal. but the first three are melodic death metal. though relentless recurrence can be argued. Panasonicyouth99 01:09, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Instruments
ChthoniC calls the 2-string instrument "Hena" in their native language. It should be almost the same with "Er-hu", but I still update the name of it with "Hena", since we should all respect all native languages. --Hisakon 1 August 2007


 * There isn't much room for being unspecific in what the instrument is called. The erhu can be called a hena, but the mojority of people won't know what a hena is (not that many know erhu either). The Wikipedia article for Hena redirects to Henna as well (which should be replaced witha disambiguation page soon), so any confusion there should be avoided. This being the English Wikipedia, we should stick to the most common name for the instrument in English speaking countries. I have moved "hena" to a paranthetical note beside erhu so people understand when viewing multiple sources that the two instruments are equivalent, but the rest of the article should practice the easiest nomenclature. --Jacob 21:32, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * What language is "hena"? I've never heard this term. What are the Chinese characters for it? Badagnani 22:58, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Is it the Hokkien pronunciation for 絃阿? Badagnani 23:07, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Political views
According to all articles on medias about ChthoniC's political views, they support freedom, human rights, and democracy. And they fight against Chinese government to intend to occupy Taiwan. There is nothing radical or related to Negationism in these messages that they express. If anybody thinks their political views are radical or Negationism, please provide the evidence. Thanks a lot. --Hisakon 12 August 2007 (UTC)


 * This was a very good point to make, as many people dismiss things they don't like as "radical". Chthonic's overall political message is as about as "radical" as slaves wanting to be free. There's simply just an overpowering authority to dismiss them as "radical", when they are only demanding basic rights. --Jacob 21:34, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Merge members
This group seems to be fairly well known in Taiwan and slightly known outside of it; thus it's very unlikely that the members have been subject of non-trivial coverage in reliable published sources; this they fail WP:BIO. Whatever information is references and passes WP:BLP should be included, then the pages should be redirected here. Eleland 20:42, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I think that for sure, Freddy Lim, and CJ, Dispersed Fingers need to stay their own pages because they've done something outside of the band that cannot be attributed into the bands page. Freddy, especially has a huge role in the UNlimited Taiwan movement, and has been interviewed dozens of times and is the founder of the band. CJ, dispersed Fingers released his own CD as a solo artist, and so I think it is important to have his own page remain as to link to and from the article about said CD, and also because there is a chance he may work solo again, or that further information about him can be added, which would not fit into the Chthonic (band) page.


 * Fugitivedread 20:54, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Hm, interesting. It sounds like Freddy Lim could be independently notable, although it would be nice to see some good sources provided (and the organization in which he is active has an article which is unreferenced and tagged for questioned notability). The only information about CJ is that he released a solo disc - I don't see why that couldn't be merged into the main article. Same with the information in the other articles. Eleland 19:47, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * well, I can understand, I'll work on getting some notable sources for Freddy Lim, I guess the others could be merged, but it might be just as well to delete and forget (except maybe CJ, Dispersed Fingers)


 * Fugitivedread 06:23, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Doris is also recognized by Revolver magazine, dorisbaby.com etc, as an important female figure in music, although that may not be enough info to continue a whole separate article on her. Still, though, there is a separate distinction between her and the band, so including that in the band's article might not be the most appropriate way to go. Any news on other members?


 * User:Thend

Lyrics Section Suggestion
I was reading this snippet

Although the lyrics are quite profound compare to most contemporary Taiwanese songs, many Taiwanese people don't prefer black metal vocal and said that they can't understand anything sung by Freddy, which is probably why Chthonic is said to be more famous in western countries than in Taiwan.

It doesn't look proper to me, not because of the language issues which are easily fixed, but because the paragraph makes some claims that seem anecdotal at best and the author seems to make his own conclusions about popularity in different regions in the world.

I suggest this paragraph is rewritten a little bit. Think about what you want to get across to the audience, and what facts you have that back it up. Remember to keep Original Research out of it.

(edit: fixing sig.) --Popoi (talk) 22:22, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I see. I'll see if I can find any survey to support that. Meanwhile, feel free to remove that part as I suspect I won't find such research.Yel D&#39;ohan (talk) 17:12, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Updated Information for the New Album
I updated the page by adding information about the new album into the history section. I wasn't sure where else to put it. It may need some cleaning up or moving though. The information regarding the new albums release date, recording, and currently verifyed tracks. I also added the fact that Su-Nung The Bloody String, the bands er-hu player, will be leaving the band following the release of the album in 2009 in order to pursue a career in music of his own. Møk3 (talk) 04:42, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Why Pinyin and Simplified Chinese?
They aren't officially acknowledged in China. Do they have a name officially in mainland China?

If those are just translated words, they can be deleted.Feickoo (talk) 11:07, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Help a newby?
Thank you all for having done the editing for Chthonic (band). I am friends with Freddy and Doris and often help them by editing English for them. Now they wonder if I can help to get the wiki edited to their liking. However, I know almost nothing about how to do this (yet). Would someone be able to help out to add text (with citation), photos and a song? Jvc88889 (talk) 22:44, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
 * It all depends on what you want to add. We're not going to add a whole song... this is not advertising space. Photos are fine, as long as they're fair use. Text again is fine, as long as it's not advertising. Ideally, it wants to be text from a third-party source... interviews or reviews in the commercial print press, for instance. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 10:52, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, and I will try to keep it within the guidelines of being neutral and verified. Basically, we would like to update the first paragraph to include some information which reflects ChthoniC's recent activities and the recent instrumentation. Here is what we were thinking:

"Chthonic (sometimes typeset ChthoniC or ChThoniC) is a Taiwanese metal band, formed in 1995 in Taipei. The group incorporates influences from traditional Taiwanese music including the classical Asian instrument erhu (the band often calls it hiân-á in their native Taiwanese). Their songs are entwined with historical concerns and metaphor, injecting their music with folk traits and traditional oriental instrumentation. After 2011, their trademark erhu (the Taiwanese two-stringed violin) is now complemented by the stringed instruments the koto and shamisen, as well as Tibetan bells and the shakuhachi and pgaki flutes, the latter of which is traditionally used by the aboriginal people of Taiwan. They are acclaimed artists, as well as political activists who advocate Taiwan independence and self-determination for the Tibetans and Uighurs.

ChthoniC first attracted international attention with the 2006 release of Seediq Bale for its death metal, symphonic black metal, and thrash metal with Taiwanese folk elements. They appeared at Wacken Open Air in Germany and toured as part of Ozzfest in the US during 2007. After signing with Spinefarm Records in 2009, they released two studio albums, Mirror of Retribution and Takasago Army’in two years. ChthoniC was ranked #2 in the "Best Band" and "Best Live Band" categories in the 2009 Terrorizer Readers' Poll. They were invited to play the Download Festival (UK) in 2011 and in 2012 Bloodstock (UK), Wacken Open Air (DE), Vagos Open Air (PT), and Master of Rock (CZ). They are the first East Asian extreme metal band to make such a mark. The band’s latest album, Takasago Army, hit the charts on the Japanese Oricon 200 in the #109 position in 2012."

Some of the above information is from: Metal Hammer magazine 2011 September #222 p.120 'BATTLES IN THE EAST'. I will try to verify which information so that it could be appropriately cited, and I will look for additional third party sources for some further verification, if available.

As for the photos, Doris gave me 5, one each of each band member for use here. If there is some way for me to prove they are fair use, then let me know.

As for the song, it is one of their latest, "Takao" and was sent to me by her via "sendspace".

So, if you can let me know what you think about this and if it is doable, it will be greatly appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jvc88889 (talk • contribs) 22:35, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

OK, I am thinking as a first step to simply update the first paragraph. It will keep all of the original content and update it with new information as to their most recent instrumentation.

"Chthonic (sometimes typeset ChthoniC or ChThoniC) is a Taiwanese metal band, formed in 1995 in Taipei. The group incorporates influences from traditional Taiwanese music including the classical Asian instrument erhu (the band often calls it hiân-á in their native Taiwanese). Their songs are entwined with historical concerns and metaphor, injecting their music with folk traits and traditional oriental instrumentation. After 2011, their trademark erhu (the Taiwanese two-stringed violin) is now complemented by the stringed instruments the koto and shamisen, as well as Tibetan bells and the shakuhachi and pgaki flutes, the latter of which is traditionally used by the aboriginal people of Taiwan. They are acclaimed artists, as well as political activists who advocate Taiwan independence and self-determination for the Tibetans and Uighurs. Since the band's formation, Chthonic has released six studio albums. Their most recent album, Takasago Army, was released on August 1, 2011 in Europe and on September 6, 2011 in North America via Spinefarm records."

This information seems benign and in keeping with the presentation of the original.

I am still trying to find the link to the Metal Hammer article which verifies my planned content for a second paragraph.

Jvc88889 (talk) 04:07, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Today, I did a major edit of the History section. I kept the original author's text, deleted some of what the immediate past editor had done (since we are working in tandem). The new material is more extensive.

However, I still need to fix some of the titles of articles in the references. This is due to some error associated with the Hanji titles, I believe.

Jvc88889 (talk) 01:23, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

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Project Assessments
This article had a "C" grade in the four different WikiProjects for quite some time. Given recent additions and improvements by myself and others, including many new citations, as of today I feel that the article qualifies for a "B" grade per the quality requirements at WikiProject Biography/Assessment, WikiProject Metal/Assessment, WikiProject Black Metal/Assessment, and WikiProject Taiwan/Assessment. Anyone can disagree and revert the grade as they see fit; one minor problem is that some of the sources might be deemed "unreliable." Thanks. D OOMSDAYER 520 (Talk&#124;Contribs) 21:35, 25 January 2018 (UTC)