Talk:Chuckmuck

2020 Updated Lead section to summarise and allow for accessible overview. Help with removing warning box sought. peacock term and original research issues in History section also addressed.Stone Routes (talk) 20:03, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

—2015 history of page creation—Stone Routes (talk) 20:03, 27 January 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stone Routes (talk • contribs) 15:30, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Necessary acknowledgements
Gordon and Barbara(d) Rowe Wendy Teasdill  Peter and Zoe Mann  Andrew and Shan Ling Wells  Peter Lorimer  Lisi Kaiser  Victor Chan  Keith Dowman  John Snelling(d)  Sean and Arianne Jones  Richard and Althea Lanchester  Robbe Barnett  Charles Foster-Hall  Chris Langridge  Suzie Morgan Jennifer Lee  Giles Evans GCG Todd   Gary McCue  Peter Kessler  Rikon  Stephen Bachelor  Gyurme Dorje  John Bellezza  Sonam Thundup  S Smith  Colin Narbeth  Nicholas(d) and Deki Rhodes  Wolfgang Bertsch  Mike and Kathy Jones  John Clarke  Hao Zhai  James Wainwright  Samyeling  Many libraries, museums and Institutions notably the RGS MEAA BL BWY.Also Pelham Aldrich-blake  Karakorum Experience  Margaret Percy   Samyeling All those who travelled with me in Tibet–they know who they are. All those I met in Asia -thank you for your hospitalityStone Routes (talk) 00:48, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Draft approval cleanup
the draft wikipage "Chuckmuck" contains several names which should link directly to other wiki pages..... some way to directly link without adding a ref. Can anyone please help with this Thanks      Stone Routes (talk) 00:23, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Hello. There is indeed a quick and easy way to link to other Wikipedia articles. If the word in the text is the same as the title of the article you want to link, just put around the word. For example " My aunt has a cat. " gives "My aunt has a cat." If the text does not match the article title write text to appear for example " My mother's sister has a domestic feline. " gives "My mother's sister has a domestic feline." I hope that helps. If you have any more questions, it is my pleasure to help. Happy Squirrel (talk) 02:13, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi thanks have done what you suggested as much as I can for this weekend but I guess there is still some additional work needed for the general reader. Perhaps you can point out which areas are still unclear thanks for all your help. Off now to 'strike a light' Stone Routes (talk) 07:05, 8 August 2015 (UTC) Oh and by the way how do I use refs to refer to the same numbered ref from a different point in the text? Stone Routes (talk) 07:27, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Hello, once again this is much better. At the moment, the main problem is that the first 3 paragraphs of the history section need references. For reusing references, what you need to do is called naming the reference. What you do is the first time you use it, instead of writing as your opening tag, use where xxx is a short name for your reference, but otherwise define the reference normally. The next time you use it, just write without any text of the reference or a closing tag and the reference you have called xxx will be reused. Hope that makes sense.Happy Squirrel (talk) 15:27, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Argg......Help please having trouble with my Japanese. there were two refs at the bottom I tied to move one up to history and keep it reused in other language, but messed up. since then i tried to edit this as the final part in history but it does not save

Hi, I hope I have fixed it. Good job referencing the early part of the History section. However, I notice references number 4 and 6 seem to refer exclusively to the tinderbox, and not to the relationship between the tinderbox and the chuckmuck. Since the statements you are backing up with these references really are about the relationship, could you please explain. Thanks. Happy Squirrel (talk) 17:55, 9 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Fixed the early history per your suggestion but created a site error again You are correct only one tinderbox entry is needed. Can you chose between old and interesting and old colonial please and fix accordingly Thanks a bunch!


 * Ta. One more request, please. Can you swop around the 2 japanese refs 6 and 37 so the bonham pic is referenced with the design section and could you retain the title (like Christies ref 10)

I think I'm turning Japanese I really think so....


 * OOOOPS messed up the british museum link also by trying 2 for 1

thanks so far..... just two last cites to correct Japan Bonhams and British Museum and I am contentStone Routes (talk) 13:22, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Help I tried but not get cite errors removed


 * Hi, I fixed a bunch of them. The place where you define reference br1 appears to have disappeared. Do you remember what it was? Stone Routes (talk) 01:16, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Chuckmuck is now officially re-introduced as an English word as a wiki page. yippeeStone Routes (talk) 01:16, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Can we have a wiki page for ' chakmak ' - flint steel fire-lighter and "mechag' Tibetan leather and metal belt-hung tinder pouch and 'kete' Mongolian leather and metal belt-hung tinder pouch which link to chuckmuck. thanksStone Routes (talk) 01:16, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

and, if anyone has the time and inclination, linking into any other relevant pages such as matches, fire-steel etc. Sorry not to dare to do this myself but I would almost certainly create a cite error esp. if the page contained the word JapanStone Routes (talk) 01:16, 12 August 2015 (UTC)


 * For the chakmak and mechag articles, that may be possible. However, I think the best would be to create redirects to this page for now. For Chakmak, this may be trickier since there is an Indian children's magazine by that name. I would say wait a bit to see hit rates on both articles and then decide how to proceed (hatnote or disambiguation page). As for links from other articles, I will see what can be done. Happy Squirrel (talk) 17:34, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Help messed up the photo again. I was trying to amend the caption and to remove the word 'type' and 'style' but.... The problem is that I uploaded the photo to wikicommons with very slightly incorrect file names which also made the captions accurate GREAT SOMEONE HAS CHANGED THE CAPTION of Chuckmuck WHILE I WROTE THIS TO A BETTER ONE THANKS like it but the file name remains SO.... I have made a deletion request for both to wiki commons and will re-load the two corrected versions when this is done; Chuckmuck-mechag (Tibet)-animal style with silver baby snow lion and tiger and coral boss. photo Stone Routes Chuckmuck straps-mechag (Tibet)-fabric and leather belt straps for suspending chuckmucks photo Stone Routes the current caption "An animal style chuckmuck with silver baby snow lion, tiger and coral boss" is fine but the other maybe "fabric and leather belt straps for suspending chuckmucks" Sorry about blundering about.Stone Routes (talk) 01:16, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

It might interest you to know that the science museum have posted up one photo of a chuckmuck to link the terms tinder pouch ( 41 items mostly bags AND classified under"Classical and medieval medicine") and chuckmuck (61 items) while they sort it out. So our work has already caused a shift bin the museum world !!!Stone Routes (talk) 01:16, 12 August 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stone Routes (talk • contribs) 18:37, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

finitoStone Routes (talk) 01:16, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

ps Snow Lion of the day @ StoneRoutesStone Routes (talk) 08:31, 12 August 2015 (UTC)Stone Routes (talk) 10:57, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

have re-posted accurately described photos to wiki commons to replace old two. Can you get from there and put in article pleaseStone Routes (talk) 18:14, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

come on....do the photos pleaseStone Routes (talk) 02:27, 13 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks! I've done a lot of work on fire striker and I am happy to help with chuckmuck.Kortoso (talk) 19:30, 12 August 2015 (UTC) thanks Stone Routes (talk) 02:27, 13 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi, unfortunately at Wikipedia, we don't have Key Editors. We just all sort of float around and do what we do best. I specialize in getting new articles and new editors into to the system. Other editors specialize in other areas (manual of style compliance, updating old articles, dispute resolution). We have noticed that articles on Wikipedia do better the more editors work on them. I will definately keep chuckmuck on my watchlist and keep an eye on it, but it will hopefully be improved further by other editors. Happy Squirrel (talk) 13:21, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi thanks for clarification. Of course wiki users can always the history button to see what chuckmuck looked like on the 11th August 2015 when the page was accepted. Though for me final version was 01:38, 12 August 2015‎  I too hope the page develops with other input. Being totally new to the wiki game and nervous about challenging the cataloguing practice of major institutions, let alone re-introducing a word that now-a-days seems better suited to some kind of sex act, I wanted to keep as tight control as possible until the page was as concise, explicit and accurate as I could make it. It was a steep learning curve for me and I couldn't have done it without your support-thank you very very much.Stone Routes (talk) 14:09, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

CAN SOMEONE SORT OUT THE PHOTOS PLEASE I UPLOADED THEM COPYRIGHT FREE TO WIKI COMMONS WITH THE WRONG FILE NAMEStone Routes (talk) 10:03, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

can I submit Chuckmuck for consideration in another portal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Contents/Portals#Culture_and_the_arts ?Stone Routes (talk) 10:03, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

can Wiki add the MEAA re-direct https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MEAA&redirect=no to include www.meaa.org.uk/ and is BL not short for the British Library? Stone Routes (talk) 10:23, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

and BWY as re-direct to British Wheel of Yoga

Hiuchi bukuro
I understand the interest in providing a link to the similar hiuchi bukuro. Since it has a similar appearance, and has no separate article, I don't see a problem with mentioning it here. It may even have a common history, but I'm not sure about that at this point. There are thousands of different flint-and-steel kits known around the world, and we don't want to cat them under Chuckmuck. I wonder what the Chinese version of this would be? Any idea? Kortoso (talk) 16:08, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Strike-a-light
I think that you may want to reconsider renaming this article. "Strike-a-lights" (i.e., kits containing flint and steel for firemaking) are extremely common throughout world cultures. See for instance hiuchi-bukuro in Japan. Sorting the Japanese and Chinese strike-a-light kits under Mongolian/Tibetan "chuckmuck' implies that their origin is from the Mongols and Tibetans, and that's probably impossible to prove. The term chuckmuck isn't even a Tibetan or Mongolian term, so it's probably incorrect to categorize them as such anyway, or really any other strike-a-light kits, except those from parts of India. Walter Hough's Fire-making Apparatus in the National Museum explores the variety of strike-a-light kits in detail.

**********Wiki editors help needed******* DEFINITIONS:Stone Routes (talk) 09:36, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Not quite sure why the above (Hiuchi bukuro and Strike-a-light) are in numbered sections, but here is a rebuttal.Stone Routes (talk) 04:04, 16 August 2015 (UTC) The term Chuckmuck is used in ENGLISH by museums, auction houses and specialist books to describe a particular form of fire-starting kit. It has been in use since for over 130 years. It does not indicate any geographical location but is a term for an identifiable design. This article simply tries to explain the etymology of the word and brief history of it's usage. It is in current use in the museum catalogues and auction houses such as Christie's. It is also used in European, notably Dutch and German, museums and specialist magazines in the same way. This in no way affects the name by which they are called in Japan, Mongolia, Nepal, Bhutan, Tibet or China. If you wish to campaign against the use of the word chuckmuck (hardly possible I would imagine since it appears in so many published sources) may I suggest you start with the Science Museum and ask them to change the name that appears in their collection catalogue rather than hereStone Routes (talk) 03:40, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

As for the Chinese names(s) this does require considerable research as the word(s) have not been in common use for almost 200 years and the Chinese language itself has changed in that time. Initial findings are that a word for belt hangings was used (something like Chatelaine, presumably) but this appears too general and there are certainly more specific words. Once they are found there will be the problem of agreeing a spelling for the word(s)............. Stone Routes (talk) 04:04, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

PHOTO CAPTIONS still a problem looks like I will have to live with the file names since i uploaded them freely. It should be fairly obvious what I would have preferred them to say. Mea culpa Ce la vie. The captions can change though I'm pleased to say, thanks for that -the top one is fine but the bottom one is rubbish and needs changing to <<>> PleaseStone Routes (talk) 03:57, 15 August 2015 (UTC

Wiki Projects art?
Is it not possible to submit this page for consideration in WikiProjects categoryArt and cultureStone Routes (talk) 08:02, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

AND.....WikiProjects Geographical 1.1.4 Asia-relatedStone Routes (talk) 09:19, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

And, maybe just maybe, somewhere in WikiProject Natural and physical sciences because of the use of Animal Style and dragonsStone Routes (talk) 09:29, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

And in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM add  British Museum in London (except in the natural sciences)  to Businesses and organisations – it is currently in places And in https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MEAA&redirect=no add a link to http://www.meaa.org.uk At least BL looks OK. ThanksStone Routes (talk) 11:09, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not interested in helping you if you keep playing around. Please use standard spelling and grammar, Stone Routes. Kortoso (talk) 22:07, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not interested in helping you if you keep playing around. Please use standard spelling and grammar, Stone Routes. Kortoso (talk) 22:07, 17 August 2015 (UTC)