Talk:Cimmerians

Someone threw in some anti-Israel stuff, where it says British racialist, follow by calling the Hebrew version “Peudohistory”. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8000:9401:B46:314D:E430:C3AB:B25F (talk) 17:32, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

clearly
"In the early twentieth century the home of the Cimmerians in the Caucasus led to their association with the ancient Aryans."

Whatever is meant, it ought to be expressed clearly.

S. — Preceding unsigned comment added by User: (talk • contribs)

User 194.44.198.45 inserted "Ukraine and" into the who lived in the south of modern-day Ukraine and Russia,. This sentence doesn't look consistent - if they lievd in the south of modern-day Russia, then they could live in the north of modern-day Ukraine. Despite it is possible that Cimmerians lived in territory of modern Ukraine too, I don't have documental evidences of this, and I wouldn't rely on words of 194.44.198.45 who is known for his biased Ukrainian nationalistic and often misleading changes. Therefore I revert insertion of Ukraine here. [[User:Drbug| Dr Bug]] 11:30, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * This sentence doesn't look consistent - if they lievd in the south of modern-day Russia, then they could live in the north of modern-day Ukraine.
 * Please note


 * [[Image:Physical Map of Europe.jpg|400px|]]


 * Perhaps You forgot the Crimean peninsula is a part of Ukraine?


 * I'm really tired by you Ukrainian nationalists. I didn't mean that Crimea is a part of Russian Federation.
 * I have fixed the article, now it should look fine. [[User:Drbug| Dr Bug]] 21:37, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Removed totally unsubstantiated edits presented as fact
I reverted Moosh 88's edits that stated the following:

1. The Cimmerians were an ancient Indo-European, who are believed to have been of Thraco-Phrygian origin.


 * We don't know for sure that they spoke anything like what we would call a Indo-European language, although if you have evidence that they did, or that they were Thracians, it would be relevant. Actually, the king name Sandakhshatra with -khshatra ending does seem to be Indo-European, but of the Indo-Aryan (satem) family, not Thracian or Phrygian (centum).  Even so it is premature to conclude that the people were Indo-Europeans from this, since foreign-imposed kings often had such names, eg the Mitanni... More solid research needs to be added, not speculation.

2. The Cimmerians moved to the south of modern-day Ukraine (Crimea and northern Black sea coast) and Russia (Black Sea coast and Caucasus), a little after 1200 BC from an unknown location.


 * More speculation. Cimmerians are not mentioned in any records until the 8th century (see article).

3. Some scholors {sic} believe that the Cimmerians either came from Hungary or Romania or, less hypothetically, inhabited those countries as well.


 * Ok, this admits that it is speculation, so we might be able to stick this further along in the article, but probably not in the intro.

4. The Scythians took over the area around the 8th and 7th century BC.

5. something to speculate/ponder: I am 13 and did research in the Cimmerians. Most of their tools were crafted from wood or bone!
 * Actually, this traditional view is based mainly on Herodotus, but it has been more recently called into question, so all sides of the story need to be presented. Codex Sinaiticus 22:04, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

6. THEY WERE SERBS ?! It is written Cimmeri where the arrow shows in cyrillic script!!! Please, check this option! There are some Serbian epic ethno poetry which in verses describes "our people" going back to India and meeting disaster there. And those songs were kept from one generation to other in vocal form. http://s22.postimg.org/b0ktd5y0x/nemanjic1.png And is there any chance that Serbi —> Serboi are anyhow connected with Cimmerians?!

Cimmerians Britannica
Per people's information I found this in Britannica 2006:

begin:

Cimmerians

member of an ancient people living north of the Caucasus and the Sea of Azov, driven by the Scythians out of southern Russia, over the Caucasus, and into Anatolia toward the end of the 8th century BC. Ancient writers sometimes confused them with the Scythians. Most scholars now believe that the Cimmerians assaulted Urartu (Armenia) about 714 BC, but in 705, after being repulsed by Sargon II of Assyria, they turned aside into Anatolia and in 696–695 conquered Phrygia. In 652, after taking Sardis, the capital of Lydia, they reached the summit of their power. Their decline soon began, and their final defeat may be dated from 637 or 626, when they were routed by Alyattes of Lydia. Thereafter, they were no longer mentioned in historical sources but probably settled in Cappadocia, as its Armenian name, Gamir, suggests.

The origin of the Cimmerians is obscure. Linguistically they are usually regarded as Thracian or as Iranian, or at least to have had an Iranian ruling class. They probably did live in the area north of the Black Sea, but attempts to define their original homeland more precisely by archaeological means, or even to fix the date of their expulsion from their country by the Scythians, have not so far been completely successful. One theory identifies them with what is known to archaeologists as the “Catacomb” culture. This culture was ousted from southern Russia by the “Srubna” culture advancing from beyond the Volga just as the Cimmerians were ousted by the invading Scythians, but that upheaval took place in the second half of the 2nd millennium BC, and a gap of several centuries separates it from the appearance of historic Cimmerians in Asia. Some authorities identify them with “Thraco-Cimmerian” remains of the 8th–7th century BC found in the southwestern Ukraine and in central Europe; these may perhaps be looked upon as traces of the western branch of the Cimmerians, who, under fresh Scythian pressure, eventually invaded the Hungarian plain and survived there until about 500 BC

Designation of Cimmerians as 'East Iranian'
Aside from the linguistic research which has been covered here, which seems to indicate an Iranic identity for the Cimmerians at the expense of the Thracian or Celtic identities, there is no indication that the Cimmerians were 'Eastern Iranian' in any sense of the word. The Andronovo Culture is unanimously seen as the progenitor of 'East Iranic' languages, just as the Sintashta Culture is seen as the progenitor of the collective Indo-Iranian languages. However, the Cimmerians are mainly descended from the Koban Culture and post-Srubnaya cultural regions, which may well be Indo-European, but which are clearly not Iranic or associated with historical Iranic cultures in any way. So it is very much misleading to write in the introduction to the article that the Cimmerians are an 'Eastern Iranian equestrian group' when it has not been determined for certain that their language was Iranic at all. It is also very convenient to refer to the Cimmerians as a Scythian tribe when they were pre-Scythian in nature. I know that they had a nomadic 'Scythian' lifestyle in common, but there were still distinctions between them. It would be just as inaccurate to say that the Cimmerians were proto-Circassian, Caucasian, or Thracian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.38.247.215 (talk) 10:05, 1 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Sources. 46.230.131.186 (talk) 15:25, 12 April 2023 (UTC)