Talk:Cinema of the Soviet Union/Archive 1

The 1930s
While the material contained in the section "1930s" is articulate and well informed, I am concerned that it makes a number of factual statements (i.e., regarding the declining rate of film production throughout the decade) which are not supported by any documentary evidence or reference links. It would be a shame to "cut" this material on the basis of this absense; who knows where this section originates from? If we knew this, it would be possible to reconstruct the section so that it conforms properly with Wikipedia formatting standards. In truth, this section reads like an essay or micro-essay that has been dropped in from another source.

Dune Sherban (talk) 23:37, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Old talk
Russian Ark is not truly the first unedited film, there are a lot of others who've done that before, f.e. Andy Warhol. It is, however, the first long feature film that has truly been shot in one take - because everything was filmed on a mega-harddisk. Hitchcock's The Rope is another example, but since that was filmed on 35mm, they had to change reels after 20 minutes. But, since English is not my mothertongue, I feel uncertain to change this little nuance in the text.

Comment
I agree with the above. It might be better to say that it is the first feature film made in a single shot. On the other hand, I'm no native speaker either...

Factchecking
Can someone please give me a reliable source for these two "oddities" mentioned in the Censorship section? I don't know about the first, but the second certainly sounds like the equivalent of an urban legend. -- Simonides 00:05, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * The delay of the release of the film Solaris by two years, causing it to appear on the heels of Kubrick's 2001 (and thus was dubbed in the West an answer to 2001), although it was made before.


 * The release of Andrey Rublev in black and white (it was originally in color) because the film was deemed too bloody.

I realise the age of this query, yet the point is valid: Andrei Rublev was intended to be shot in black and white, which in the film gradually shifts into colour in the closing scenes. Tarkovsky explicitely intended this effect as a stylistic and meaningful device; it was not 'imposed' on the film (though other conditions were). In Robert Bird's study of Tarkovsky's film, the director is quoted as saying that the black/white-colour shift;

"will create the unusual effect of a blow, the very step which, perhaps, somewhere conventionally divides life and art" (in Andrei Tarkovsky: elements of cinema, p. 43)

As such, it is certainly justifiable to remove the second 'oddity' from the Wiki.

Dune Sherban (talk) 19:53, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

What Is This Page About?
Heading is "Cinema of Russia and Soviet Union". Then, second paragraph of introduction begins (correctly) "Soviet Cinema" should not be used as a synonym for "Russian Cinema".  Then entire following material deals exclusively with Soviet Cinema''' up to last small part, which briefly 'stubs' the Cinema of the Russian Republic, and where is the Russian Empire. This article needs to be retitled Cinema of the Soviet Union, and a new Cinema of Russia needs to be created to address the nation of Russia (Empire and Republic). Have much to add re Soviet Union but won't until I see stability and consistency: I'd change the article title, but don't know how... --Sergei, 5/10/05.
 * Well, this article certainly has misleading title. But I see this not very important, let me explain,why. Both Cinema of Russia and Cinema of the USSR are extremely underdeveloped topics in Wikipedia. For example, while the Internet Movie Database (http://www.imdb.com/) has information about 6,000 Soviet movies, in Wikipedia even if we add number of articles about Russian movies to number of articles about Soviet movies, we'll hardly get more than 20. Therefore, if I had enough time to start a project "Cinema of the Soviet Union", I should start from creating new articles at least about the most notable movies. But if you want to split this article into several ones, making each of them look even more poor than now, then you should start from Help:Starting a new page and Help:Renaming (moving) a page. Cmapm 01:00, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the assist. I've pulled the two apart:  Russia is now at Film in Russia, and I've put in a text start; see how it looks.  I hope to also add more to this separate Soviet Union page and will probably re-rename it Film in the Soviet Union at some point.  Issue here is that Film has been co-opted as the term-of-choice for motion pictures/moving pictures/cinema/etc. and I'm going to try and round up all relevant sub-articles this week to next and put them in one place.  If we can get more detail in, neither page should look badly in the near future - my only problem there is my knowledge base only goes up through the Stalin years, and either others will have to chip in for the later decades & the "new Russia", or I will have to dig up some literature and learn something new... Rich Wannen, aka Sergei, aka (tho Heaven knows why; I'm logged in) 12.73.194.65 17:11, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Many POV issues introduced recently
This looks like a large campaign against the Soviet cinema by anon user. Just few examples:

''Notable films from Stalin era include Aleksandr Nevsky and Ivan Grozny. These films were made during the Patriotic war when censorship was slightly loosened.''

After the end of Khrushchev Thaw, and a new encroachment on free expression, Soviet cinema began to rely heavily on use of subtle hints and themes to say with images what could not be said with words, to circumvent the government censorship.

Vysota (Height) is considered to be defining film of the Thaw era (it also became the foundation of the Bard movement).

''The Cold War resumed with a vengeance, and all the strictures on film content were revived by the war-worn Stalinists, and moreso, much in parallel to what occurred in the USA. Only, the government was making the films.''

I've got the main pushed idea: "All Soviet filmmakers were dissidents and the TRUE FREE GREATEST cinema came into life only after the liberation in 1991". If one watched just Vysota and didn't watch, say, "Smelye lyudi" (1950), "Kortik" (1954), "Soldat Ivan Brovkin" (1955), "Karnavalnaya noch" (1956), or "Dobrovoltsy" (1958), then could you at least not name Vysota the "defining film"? Films were made by studios, may be sometimes by a request or under certain control from the government, but by studios.

A lot of time and work is required now to remove the most extreme POV and make an article look more or less neutral. If no one does, I'll try to do this when I get some free time, certainly, in case new tons of POV will not be pushed here. Cmapm 12:52, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

Recent history?
The "Recent history" section gives me pause. First of all, there is no recent history of the Cinema of the Soviet Union, since there is no recent history of the Soviet Union, since the Soviet Union no longer exists. Secondly, the section at times is extremely POV against modern Russian cinema, a topic which should have its own article, but doesn't seem to. (Clearly the Cinema of Russia article is not what it should be.) If recent Russian cinema is so bad, as is claimed in the first and fourth paragraphs, then why are several examples of acclaimed films provided? I'm not expert enough to make good changes, but I suggest killing the redirect currently at Cinema of Russia, and seeding a "new" article there with a fixed up version of this content. Staecker 20:46, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Really, why aren't Russian film and Soviet film under the same article? Soviet film should reasonably be a segment under Russian film(though huge as most films(important nonetheless) still are from the Soviet era). They've done that on Russian music, and should do here aswell.90.224.42.184 23:43, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with Staecker, that there is a lot of POV concerning post-Soviet Russia's cinema there. I should delete the "Recent history" at all or incorporate it into the article on the cinema of Russia. But I don't agree with you, that Soviet films should be a segment under Russian films. Because as stated in the lead, Soviet films were produced not only in the Russian SFSR, but also in other Soviet republics. And hence those films are a part of culture of corresponding now independent states. Cmapm 02:24, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunate Redirect
How come this must not be confused with Russian Cinema, yet russian cinema redirects here? Pluke 19:03, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The redirect now points to Cinema of Russia, which is better. Staecker 20:55, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Spelling/Translation
I changed "Diamond Hand" to "Diamond Arm" for consistency both within this article and with other sources (e.g. IMDB, RUSCICO DVD). While either is an accurate translation of the Russian, in the context of the film "Arm" is clearly the correct choice as the jewels are concealed in a cast on the arm, not the hand.

I also corrected "Gentlemens" to "Gentlemen", probably the result of editing by a non-native English speaker. While "gentlemen" is the singular in Russian, in English the singular is "gentleman" and the plural "gentlemen", and "gentlemens" is ungrammatical. Gr8white (talk) 18:39, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

1980s?
I removed Pokrovsky Gates from 1960s-70s as it came out in 1982. I intended to move it to the 1980's section until I found there wasn't one! Was there no notable activity during that decade? Gr8white (talk) 18:10, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I added a bare-bones section on "Later years". It really is applicable to the latter part of the 80s so if anyone wants to expand on it please do so. Gr8white (talk) 00:32, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Grunya Kornakova poster.jpg


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Fair use rationale for Image:Ballada2.jpg


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expert-subject-Films
This article for the most part talks about the political history of Soviet union, not the significance of the early Soviet filmmakers in the world cinema context. I mean Kuleshov is not even mentioned in the article and the significance of Eisenstein is completely missed and buried under political history. This article should be very much rewritten from the History of film POV, it's a lot of work and I'm going to intend to help as time permits. for starters anybody editing this article, please buy any book on a history of World cinema. thanks!--Termer (talk) 03:25, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Socialist Realism
According to whom was Soviet-era cinema guided by socialist realism? For example, one of the most popular films from the era "Solyaris" has NOTHING to do with socialist ideology. Even many of the most successful films from the 1930s such as Petrov's "Peter the First", Eisentein's "Alexander Nevsky", and Pudovkin's "Minin & Pozharsky" are not even remotely related to Marxist ideology. Kupredu (talk) 00:52, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Add Служебный роман to Soviet films, 1970s'
I'm no authority on the subject, but as someone who has lived in Russia for an extended amount of time, I can't believe Служебный роман does not make the list under Cinema of the Soviet Union. I understand it's a lighthearted film, but its incredible popularity still exists today. To many Russians, past and present, this film brings out the same nostalgia and sentiment as It's a Wonderful life to Americans. The current list of films is too highbrow and distant from the real film culture of the Soviet film era. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.162.185.114 (talk) 06:47, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Notability of use of colour in 1930's and 3D and colour in 1940's
The page doesn't mention any films from 1930's that used colour instead of black and white, such as "Груня Корнакова" from 1936 or first film with use of colour made in Ukraine ("Сорочинcкaя яpмaркa", made in 1939). Would this be notable for mentioning?

Another thing that might be notable, especially with recent craze with 3D in the world, is that the first 3D sound feature film with colour sequencies was made in Soviet Union in 1946 ("Робинзон Крузо"). It is also "the first glasses-free stereoscopic feature film" (as stated on the films Wikipedia page). I think this is definitely notably. Other thoughts? HeadlessMaster (talk) 01:48, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

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