Talk:Cinnabar

Untitled
'what value does cinnabar have?' Is Cinnabar the same as Vermilion? If no, what's the difference? My dictionary lists both as translations of the German de:Zinnober. --212.144.165.5 10:13, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

Vermilion is the standard name in English given to the red artists' pigment based on artificially made mercuric sulfide, while cinnabar is the name given to the natural mineral. See:http://www.naturalpigments.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=450-10S

81.84.78.118 18:31, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Hey this is some pretty heavy academic shit to be dropping on the laypeople out here. Can anyone work around the geology-ese? Twinning? What the hell is that in plain english?
 * Twinning doesn't exist in plain English. Crystal twinning occurs when two (or more) crystals grow from the same lattice separately but maintaining a fixed structural relationship. --Bejnar (talk) 09:14, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

The following sentence in about the 5th paragraph seems to be wrong: "It has the highest refractive power of any mineral. Its mean index for sodium light is 3.08,[8] whereas the index for diamond is 2.42 and that for gallium(III) arsenide (GaAs) is 3.93." How can it be the highest when its refractive index lies between that of diamonds and GaAs? I did not change anything because I am not familiar with the subject. Jimknock (talk) 03:44, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

reference for the toxicology


Lewis, Richard J., Sr, (2003). Sax's Dangerous Properties of Industrial Materials (10th Edition) Volumes 1-3. John Wiley & Sons. Online version available at: http://www.knovel.com/knovel2/Toc.jsp?BookID=707&VerticalID=0 Mercury Sulfide is given the highest Hazard Rating (3 on a scale of 1-3) --Atcack 04:01, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Merger
It seems to me that the Mercury sulfide page is frankly rather pointless. It contains very little information. I just thought it would be more productive to have them on the same page (especially since each page says its the same as the other...). I would also accept leaving Mercury sulfide as the parent page if that was thought to be more appropriate and beneficial. Slithytove2 10:23, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I also considered adding Vermilion to the list to be merged also, but it seemed that it was more... or maybe not? any suggestions? (note the question at the very top of this page.) Slithytove2 10:26, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * No, the cinnabar article should focus on the mineralogy aspects, whereas purely chemical data and uses should be in a separate article on the chemical compound. Perhaps we need to shift some content - some duplication will remain, but the two should remain separate as should vermillion. Vsmith 12:10, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Oppose Merge It is tha same like edible salt and sodium chloride have to merge. There is a difference between the mineral or ore and the chemical substance!--Stone 12:55, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the merge tags. --Ligulem 16:52, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Medicinal Use
IMO reference to arsenic is superfluous and should be removed 195.38.93.206 13:37, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

IMO, the medicinal section should be expanded to include historical usage in alchemy. I'm not as familiar with its usage in Western alchemy, but in Taoist Chinese alchemy, cinnabar and gold were the two prime ingredients in most "immortality elixirs" and such. I can provide more detailed (and sourced) information, if consensus is in favor of expanding this section. Rpine75 (talk) 02:14, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

It should probably be mentioned that these elixers killed almost everyone who took them. Omicron91 22:22, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Seriously? This section of the article is not only unsourced and ridiculous, but also incredibly dangerous should someone actually, in any way, take it lightly how extremely poisonous Mercury is. It may be alternative "medicine" to some people, but I think the only real thing it could replace would be the drugs they use for lethal injection. I'm going to tag this section is dubious and unsourced and as needing an expert. Noformation (talk) 08:30, 5 August 2008 (UTC)Noformation
 * Removed. Vsmith (talk) 12:20, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I have to disagree with outright removal. I'm not disputing the toxicity of mercury/cinnabar, but removing all mention of medicinal use doesn't change the fact that it has been used for medicinal purposes in the past, and continues to be used so under certain non-Western medicinal regimens. Trepanning is mostly discredited now too, but that doesn't change the fact that it was used for milennia for medicinal purposes. Rpine75 (talk) 14:45, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Mention why this article is rightly in Category:Traditional Chinese medicine, and the numerous poisonings, to this very day. Jidanni (talk) 00:40, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Cinnabon
Any relation to Cinnabon? The first five six lettars are the same. D-Fluff has had E-Nuff 00:47, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think Cinnabon has anything to do with cinnabar. Instead, i think Cinnabon has many things to do with Cinnamon :). 119.40.118.201 (talk) 06:23, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

both are related to cinnamon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.17.136.33 (talk) 08:21, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 07:52, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Cinnabar in the Netherlands?
I have flagged with "citation needed" the mention of Laaren, Netherlands as a locality where cinnabar is found. The modern spelling of Laaren is Laren, and there are two communities in the Netherlands with this name, one in North Holland and another in Gelderland. In the Dutch Wikipedia, the article about cinnabar (cinnaber in Dutch) makes no mention of any occurrence in the Netherlands, nor does either of the articles about the two communities named Laren mention cinnabar or exploitation of any other mineral resource. Hydrothermal mineral deposits of any kind are not common in the Netherlands. A search of other lists of places where cinnabar is or has been exploited finds mention of Laaren or Laren only in texts which appear to have been cloned word-for-word from this Wikipedia article.--Piperh (talk) 12:34, 1 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Removed. Vsmith (talk) 01:15, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

File:Cinnabar on Dolomite.jpg to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Cinnabar on Dolomite.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on August 28, 2010. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2010-08-28. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks!  howcheng  {chat} 16:30, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Modern Use of Cinnabar
As a hobby and professional jewelry maker I was stunned to discover the toxicity of Cinnabar. Many people are using Cinnabar beads which generally come from China and are often sold at popular USA arts and craft department stores. While the article sites that the toxic material is replaced by a resin pigment, I can't help but wonder if there is still a toxicity level when handling cinnabar beads, or if it is considered completely safe, safe enough to put in one's mouth? I mean babies are always grabbing onto necklaces and could try and taste it! Personally I am wondering if I should forgo ever using cinnabar again. Expert insight on this matter would be an appreciated addition to the article. Thanks, Bmah318 (talk) 12:35, 10 January 2012 (UTC)Melanie
 * Check out Medical disclaimer. --Bejnar (talk) 09:14, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Cinnabar is quite stable, and has extremely low solubility. It can be contaminated with elemental mercury, which is toxic.  On its own though, it's typically fairly stable and non-toxic (obviously, you don't want to react it with things like acids, or put it in fire).  See the MSDS .  No medical advice, though. Buddy431 (talk) 15:36, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 19:52, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Dupe
Should the duplicate article Cinnebar be merged or redirected? Keahapana (talk) 00:14, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Made it a redirect here, see talk:Cinnebar. Vsmith (talk) 03:01, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

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Etymology
I don’t know the answer to this question, but my recollection is that there are only 9 words in Ancient Greek that contain a doubled nu, and all of them are foreign words borrowed from other languages. (I remember this fact from reading about the name of the Sea of Gallilee, lake gennesaret, in the New Testament.) If this is true, kinnebari deserves to show derivation from something further behind the Greek, since it is not a natural Greek word.

Merriam-Webster.com says “... from Greek kinnabari, of non-Indo-European origin; akin to Arabic zinjafr cinnabar” (not much help. What was the immediate non-Indo-European predecessor?)

The Wikipedia article on the spice cinnamon says it’s name was borrowed into Greek from a Phoenician word. “Ancient Greek: κιννάμωμον kinnámōmon (later kínnamon), via Latin and medieval French intermediate forms. The Greek was borrowed from a Phoenician word, which was similar to the related Hebrew: קינמון‎ (qinnāmōn).” Aragorn 21:49, 21 December 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jkshrews (talk • contribs)

Synthesis of cinnabar
@Hu741f4, regarding why was it removed? As the edit summary here indicates, it was removed because the fact that combining mercury and sulphur results in the synthesis of cinnabar has probably been known since the very first experiments with mercury, which likely predate even the advent of alchemy in the first century CE, and is of no historical importance whatsoever. In any case, it was known by all Arabic alchemists, including the earliest of them, writing under the name of Jabir ibn Hayyan. See, for example, :

So it's nonsense to claim that The earliest known method for the synthesis of Cinnabar first appeared in De aluminibus et salibus of al-Razi, nor does the source used actually claim that. What the source does –correctly– say is that the De aluminibus et salibus contains the earliest description of a way to prepare corrosive sublimate or Mercury(II) chloride, which in contrast to the production of cinnabar was of great historical importance.

Apart from that, the attribution of the De aluminibus et salibus is generally considered false by scholars; see :

It's only sometimes attributed to al-Razi, but this is not considered correct. The anonymous 11th/12th-century Andalusian Arabic treatise is considered to be strongly influenced by al-Razi's authentic works though, but that is neither here or there. ☿ Apaugasma  ( talk  ☉) 14:40, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Ok thanks! I learned a new stuff today Hu741f4 (talk) 01:45, 4 September 2022 (UTC)