Talk:Ciolo (Apulia)

Educational Project Page
This page is part of an Educational Project by students of LIUC, Italy, with a course page at: https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/LIUC_-_Universit%C3%A0_Cattaneo/Digital_Technology_(Autumn_2020)/home The users of the group are new to the Wikipedia platform and are learning to edit following Wikipedia rules. They are open to any advice on improvements of the page in conformity to Wikipeida requirements and guidelines, and any help useful for the enhancement of the page will be gladly accepted. The student team User names are:
 * Phoenixmb13
 * QuotedMercury
 * BRSLIUCG1
 * Pinkuser14
 * LIUCFederico11
 * Yankee2121

References and Sources
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 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Referencing_for_beginners
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_referencing_with_Wiki_Markup/1

Automatically generating the table of contents box
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Users' Conversation
There is the necessity to find as much information as possible. References should be made for all the data added, look at the existing references that the other users have already used! Thanks.

Phoenixmb13 (talk) 16:18, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Just found some references on the section "Caves", i'll work on it! QuotedMercury (talk) 16:54, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Some issues:

- References 5 and 6 are exacly the same and they must be fixed, because only the link to a website isn't enough! - the "Nature" seems to be a intruding, in fact there already exist the sections Flora and Fauna; and most of all, terms like "Very special" cannot be used because it's a personal opinion! QuotedMercury (talk) 17:06, 11 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Still trying to get more info about 'Fauna', but the references seems

very similar to some parts we've already done. Opinions? LIUCFederico11 (talk) 18:22, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Reference can be used different times, as long as you write different information. Phoenixmb13 (talk) 17:28, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Users: In the tourism paragraph the part about the local disco must be deleted. It is pure advertising! Phoenixmb13 (talk) 17:51, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Since half of the text of the introduction is related to the bridge, it would not be better to create a new paragraph on the bridge? QuotedMercury (talk) 22:32, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * It's a good idea! Good job.

Just made the latest updates on the Flora paragraph, made also the references. Is there any paragraph that need to be completed? Where there’s none of us already working on it. BRSLIUCG1 (talk) 14:22, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Just added some information about the others caves, hope it will be fine.

BRSLIUCG1 (talk) 14:37, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Moreover the sentence “so rich in precious architecture” was too personal and subjective and was changed into “rich in architecture”. Let me know if it’s fine for you BRSLIUCG1 (talk) 13:25, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Just added a part about Fauna. Some other missing parts are: Plankton, coordinates of two caves BRSLIUCG1 (talk) 21:34, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Added a sentence in the page of Province of Lecce which can enable us to link our page in the future BRSLIUCG1 (talk) 14:31, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Good! There are a few other pages like: Gagliano del Capo, S.Maria di Leuca e Otranto. Phoenixmb13 (talk) 13:18, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Sent a mail to some photographers to ask them for photos. BRSLIUCG1 (talk) 14:33, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Me too. Caves, flora and fauna needs photos too. Phoenixmb13 (talk) 13:19, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately the three websites that were contacted, their pictures weren't for free.

BRSLIUCG1 (talk) 11:25, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

Adding a few lines about a legend in the paragraph Tourism. There are e few references too. What do you think? Phoenixmb13 (talk) 13:22, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Users, when you add references look the layout of the previous ones, you need to add fields like Language, Translated Title etc if the article/website is in Italian. Thank you. Phoenixmb13 (talk) 07:34, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Fixed all the spacing issues BRSLIUCG1 (talk) 11:24, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Issues with the draft (16.11.20)

 * References: several text sections have no references. There are five errors in red in the references. These relate to using the appropriate Cite templates correctly. Reference 6 has an author missing. Reference 17, 7 and 5 needs the original source referenced, not the site you found it on. Ref. 14 and 15 needs publication titles, etc. Be consistent in how you reference Italian sources - some have titles translated, some say 'in Italian', others just the Italian text.
 * Structure: add See Also, External Links, Gallery and Categories. Change section Bridge to Ponte Ciolo (Bridge Ciolo). Change Caves to The Ciolo Caves. The sentence on caves is not relevant to the section on the bridge.
 * Images: the long text sections need acceptable and relevant images sourcing and formatting to align with the relevant text sections. Try to find and add an acceptable large scale map (location section).
 * Links out: fix the link out in red. You link out once, where you first use the linked text. You are missing some useful links out (e.g. to Etoiliate, Sea Cave, etc.). Be consistent in what you link out to, and the reasons for it e.g. you link out to owl, but nor robin, etc.; you link out to Cave of the monk seal, but not Sparrows Cave, etc. Some links out need reviewing for removal e.g. colours, greenish, reddish, boat, etc.
 * Talk page: As an educational project, use of the Talk page is required for article development.
 * Page format: the page is largely flat text. Consider better ways to format it. For example, the data on the different caves could be tabulated in an introductory sub-section, then have other sub-sections in this section on the specific cave descriptions.
 * Content: some of the detailed text needs to be reduced, particularly where it belongs on another existing page. As one of many examples, 2 of the 4 sentences on Alyssum belong on the latter page, not here. Don't include too much from the secondary sources - you are summarizing, not duplicating, this content. It is better to have several references to different facts, rather that a paragraph from one source. Be consistent in the use of bold and italics e.g. for the names of the caves, the biggest one, etc. Remove the repetitive content.
 * Grammar/Style: avoid and remove the use of superfluous words e.g. Then, moreover, just, also, for some tears now, a place like, so it's possible, most fearless, adrenalin-pumping, there's, strictly, at the mercy of, particularly, was born, additionally, remarkable, admiring, breath-taking, enjoyable, etc. Don't start sentences with And, But, etc. Be consistent across all the content e.g. is it The Ciolo, or Ciolo, or ciolo? Is it a canal or channel? Are you using Latin or common names for plants? Check and use the correct format for years. Correct the obvious spelling errors (in red in English editor).Limelightangel (talk) 14:04, 16 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Just added some categories, the section "External Links" and a larger frame map, as you suggested. QuotedMercury (talk) 20:29, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Corrected some of the mistakes that you pointed out! We will work and try to fix all of them. Phoenixmb13 (talk) 11:54, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Links In
Added a phrase in the wikipedia page of Salento which can allow us to link our page BRSLIUCG1 (talk) 14:25, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

links in: - Otranto - Gagliano del capo - Province of Lecce - Santa Maria di Leuca - Monk Seal - Tricase - Magpie - Salento - Apulia - Robert Maillart

QuotedMercury (talk) 10:48, 22 November 2020 (UTC)


 * All these links in will become available once the page is published. Phoenixmb13 (talk) 09:42, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Issues with the draft (03.12.20)

 * Talk page: you may wish to tidy up the Talk page prior to submission, to better comply with the conventions and style e.g. remove the use of the personal tense, 'I'm gonna repair it', etc.
 * Structure: The summary intro needs to say where it is in terms of region and country. The sentence on the origin of the name here can be removed (duplicated from Fauna section). The location section needs to then describe the specific location. Chane the Diving subsection to High Diving, and link out.
 * Grammar/Style: the grammar is very poor e.g. 'most large', 'position Is located ', 'Eng. Mario Carrone', 'Prof. Ing. Vincenzo', 'has been object of', ' the homonyms cove', ' speciem', 'name to to the cave', 'studies have relieved', ' also on little scale but very stable in time even if in stable decreasing.', 'analysed', 'for over than 120 meters ', 'is hight is over 30 meters', 'wich includes', 'a relict', 'mediterranean', 'the queen's falcon', etc. Avoid and remove the use of subjective and superfluous words e.g.  Then, moreover, just, fearless, adrenalin-pumping, there's, strictly, nowadays, we have to consider, however, thus, is remarkable, perfect spots, admiring dives, indeed enjoyable, etc. Be consistent across all the content e.g. in the inconsistent use of italics and bold; The names of the caves need to be in a consistent format (case); 'semi submerge' or 'semi- submerged'? Check and use the correct and consistent format for years/dates/numbers/distances etc. e.g. '1960s', 'the Summer of 2019', 'fifteen', '75', '4Km', '24 of December',etc. Correct the obvious spelling errors (in red in English editor).
 * Content: You state there are 4 caves, then that one of these has two of these 4 names; fix this contradiction. Use east/west, not 'left'. The first 3 sentences on Ferns needs to be removed (not specific to this page, belongs on Ferns page. The single sentence under scuba diving does not relate to scuba diving, but to access to the sea for swimming, snorkeling and diving, and is better in the intro to activities, or in the location section. Try to find more information on this site as a scuba diving location. There is still duplicate content e.g. on the name origin, the staircase to the sea, etc. The map can be located better, and sooner.
 * Links out: You are missing some useful links out (e.g. to Etoiliate, Sea Cave, High diving, etc.). Some links out need reviewing for removal e.g. boat, etc. There are still many duplicate links out, which need removing. The External links need formatting correctly.
 * Images: try to get an acceptable image of rock climbing at this location. Improve the image captions in the Gallery e.g. with exact location (they are stored on Wikimedia). Remove 'Another angle' and, if permitted, the photographers names. Remove the diving image in the gallery, which is almost identical to the one used in the text.Limelightangel (talk) 11:02, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Issued solved
In order to do a more efficient work I suggest to write here every issue that has already been solved. All the photographers we got in touch with want their names under the images!
 * - Solved every issues related to structure Phoenixmb13 (talk) 13:24, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
 * - Solved some of the issues from the paragraph content (caves, ferns, some links out)
 * - Changed the images captions.
 * The issue is discussed at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Captions/Archive_1 You have a number of options: leave them in, and see what happens; remove the names from the captions on the page, but retain them on WikiCommons; remove the images with credits from the gallery, which is anyway too big, and contains some credited images very similar to some in the text. Limelightangel (talk) 09:13, 10 December 2020 (UTC)


 * - Solved issued related to links out (External links too) Phoenixmb13 (talk) 14:55, 5 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Started working on Grammar Yankee2121 (talk) 14:46, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Removed the image about people diving as pointed out. Yankee2121 (talk) 15:04, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

The Legend
This currently in the section on tourism. It needs to be in a different section, perhaps called 'Curiosities', or similar - see similar pages. Limelightangel (talk) 11:44, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Just created the new section "Curiosities", in which now the section regarding the Legend is present.QuotedMercury (talk) 15:23, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Style
There remains issues with acceptable, objective style. For example, in the tourism section, you cannot say that it is a 'perfect spot' or 'enjoyable' - it may well be, but this is subjective and biased content. This section also duplicates content related to being sheltered from the wind. You may be able to improve the content in this section. There are sourcing documenting overcrowding at the tiny beach in July-August (not from an acceptable source) and you may be able to find tourist statistics, and/or local news sources on this sub-topic. Limelightangel (talk) 12:16, 15 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Edited the issues that have been highlighted. Phoenixmb13 (talk) 09:39, 31 December 2020 (UTC)