Talk:Circassian ethnic cleansing

= Comments =

Alleged
Waiting for any alleged "original research or unverified claims, neutrality and factual accuracy disputed." --HanzoHattori 20:12, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

genocide
I think page should be named as Circussian genocide.Paparokan 11:52, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The extermination of the circassian people was an act of genocide. --140.180.7.145 22:32, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Sources and their misrepresentation
The book review in Times online does not talk about killing it says about the deportation of hundred of thousands. I have make changes accordingly.

The Johnson list says nothing aboth the genocide and colonization it just says that celebration of the 450 years of the voluntary unification of Adygeya, Karachaevo-Cherkessia, and Kabardino-Balkaria with Russia might be met with some resistance. Since I do not know there the genocide phrase came from I am moving the paragraph here until souced:
 * According to some researchers, an intentional large-scale ethnic cleansing ans genocide, although it has never been given proper attention or researched well . It was accompanied by the Russian colonization of these lands.


 * Of course that was a colonialism and genocide according to the definitions provided by Wikipedia. Biophys 00:36, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

It was definitely genocide. Increased awareness on this forgotten genocide is a must. Tauphon 22:00, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd also point out the genocide is not only physical (that is "killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group", etc). I believe what happened to the Ubykh would be prime example of the cultural genocide - since the deportation it was spoken in Turkey only, and the last person speaking it died in 1992. Of course, the cultural genocide would be just "Any form of population transfer which has the aim or effect of violating or undermining any of their rights", etc - what happened to the Ubykh was the TOTAL genocide of this kind, resulting in complete destruction of the culture. --HanzoHattori 23:28, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * You missed "Instead, there was a bloody war that ended in 1864 with the mass deportation of Circassians to Turkey and Russian colonization of their lands." This about the so-called "voluntary unification" 450 years ago (also: "However, genuine unification never occurred. Only a temporary military union was formed between some Kabardinian princes and Russia against Turkey in 1557"). --HanzoHattori 18:00, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Original research
There is no WP:RS used in the article. The close thing to the reliable source is the Radio Free Europe that is an obvious propaganda source, but even the RFE only supports that some Circassian politicians claim that there was a genocide. The sources to E-zine and a personal website are obviously unreliable.

The article is also a POV-fork of the Caucasian War that describes the same events. I suggest to merge the article there stating the info as not a fact but as opinion of some Circassian politicians and an E-zine Alex Bakharev 11:11, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with the merging proposal. Caucasian War is much bigger than Circassian genocide, and it is logical to have it as a separate article. Biophys 00:16, 19 November 2006 (UTC) But maybe the article about Caucasian War could be extended and improved. Biophys 00:32, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

This is not original research
I also disagee that this is an original research. This genocide is a fact. I probably have to dig out some references. The entire population of many villages was wiped out by Russian military forces (the tsarist Russia was indeed a prison of nations), so some of these villages (for example Pshou that I visited) were re-populated by Greeks and others who have been deported later by Stalin. Biophys 00:16, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

"Book of fiction"
It was really, really stupid, Alex. --HanzoHattori 18:10, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Sneaky tricks
What was this? Tag removal not just with no edit summary, but also marked as minor. I would like to strongly repriman the editor for sneaky tricks. I am restoring it as none of the problems were addressed. --Irpen 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * What was this? That's simple - look around: there's no discussion anymore. The only attempts at controversy were caused ~5 weeks ago by an unsigned user, who seemingly can't read English well enough. --HanzoHattori 18:58, 24 December 2006 (UTC)