Talk:Citadel (software)

condensation
Condensed the two history sections and the fork section into one history section. The condensation removed commentary from Jeff and Bruce - sorry, guys. Hue White 19:35, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

inappropriate tone
It's really neat that we're getting the Great Ones like CrT and Hue to contribute here, but this is supposed to be a damned encyclopedia article. It's not a bbs! You don't sign your contributions in the text -- that's what the history is for. You don't add voliminous non-integrated historical comments and put them in brackets -- use the Talk page. I'm severely tempted to revert to before CRT showed up and leave it that way! Rpresser 19:49, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Fine. I'll work up an introduction section and toss it in here (?) when it seems to be first draft quality. Hue White 14:39, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * On second thought, the intro section is more or less fine. Hue White 19:17, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Condensed the User Interface section, incorporating Cynbe's addition and made the tone more formal. 146.122.71.198 20:10, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * EXcellent job. Rpresser 21:19, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

page name
Shouldn't the page be named "Citadel (BBS)" or something like that? "(Software)" is not only vague, but there have been other unrelated software programs called Citadel. --Litlnemo 05:15, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Certainly, I just followed existing links to start the page. SchmuckyTheCat 14:17, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

As this page currently reads, "Citadel (BBS)" would make sense. However, reading citadel.org, the current Citadel developers, something like "Citadel (Messaging)" might make more sense, because a BBS is only one of the possible uses. My interest is that the IMAP page is trying to refer to a wiki page for the software from citadel.org, but the reference needs to be updated. --JamesStansell, 15:45, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


 * As far as I am aware, Citadel/UX is the only Citadel-related software for which the IMAP link is relevant. (And the IMAP page seems to be updated to link to the Cit/UX page now, so that looks correct to me.) For that matter, Citadel/UX is probably the only version of the software that has really tried to expand seriously beyond BBS-like activities. Please keep in mind that the people at citadel.org are mistaken when they claim to be the only current Citadel developers, and their software is only one of many Citadels. Changing the page title specifically to reflect what Cit/UX is doing would be a mistake, IMHO. -- ManekiNeko | Talk 00:43, 10 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It might make good sense to name the pages "Citadel (BBS)" and "Citadel (Groupware)". 205.144.62.1 21:10, 10 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree. I suppose we should wait and see what happens with the Citadel/UX AFD process. But, yeah, those names make more sense. -- ManekiNeko | Talk 00:07, 11 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Ditto ManekiNeko's last comment here. I, too, find "Citadel (software)" a little vague, and would welcome a 'Citadel (BBS)' and 'Citadel (Groupware)' pair of pages.. or at the very least, 'Citadel (BBS)'.  Also, Citadel/UX is only one of many varients to the Citadel style of BBS, as ManekiNeko correctly points out, so it's awkward to attribute some of Citadel/UX's features to all Citadels, past and present by renaming this 'Citadel (Messaging)'. --TreyVanRiper 15:32, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

South Jersey Cits
Why is there no mention of the South Jersey Citadels? There were at least 5 Citadel:K2NE's in South Jersey, along with a fnordadel or two, all networked together. Vince Quaresima may have had his conflicts with Hue, Jr., but Cit86:K2NE was good software, dammit. --Rpresser 21:57, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Citadelphia
Probably a better way to deal with this is to discuss the various regional Citadel hot spots under the umbrella term "Citadelphia" or "Citadelphias". Notable users in each region might also deserve specific note. The Sacramento Citadel scene was very active in the 80s to early/mid 90s, and probably represents dozens of Citadel BBSes over the years - as well as significant cooperation with other regional Citadel hotspots. It seems to me a noteworthy aspect of the Citadel BBS phenomenon. Citadel thrived in certain geographic regions *specifically*, and those regions tended to be aware of and in communication with other geographic regions where Citadel variants also thrived. This also resulted in unique regional Citadel *cultures*. In Sacramento - CSUS played a very central role in the atmosphere of many of the most popular Citadel BBSes. Many of the users were students or otherwise associated with the University.

It seems to me that it is mostly on the members of those various communities to contribute their experience in their specific community. Unfortunately - as far as Sacramento Citadelphia is concerned - the people who were in most active communication with other regional Citadelphias were the local Citadel developers - Gary Meadows, Brent Barrett and others - and most of them seem to have little interest in contributing to historical documentation of Citadel at this point.

The "Sugar Bunny Incident"
The page indicates that CrT bailed out of active development because of the "Sugar Bunny Incident." Even after 20+ years of active involvement in the Citadel community I have no idea what this means. Could someone in the know please elaborate? Art Cancro (talk) 18:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * An earlier version of this page had this text, which was edited out as non-encyclopedia-style:
 * [This is an interesting take on why the code forked, and really doesn't go to the heart of the matter. The primary reason for the end of Cynbe's involvement with the code, and withdrawal from the 1980s Seattle BBS scene had nothing to do with contributors to the code. I'm referring to an episode that we later called "the sugar bunny incident". A brief synopsis is that there was a personality conflict, people chose sides, and a schism developed which never got resolved. The schism was related to a particular individual (sugar bunny) who was very good at polarizing peoples opinions. There was a divorce involved, plenty of name calling, high minded calls for peace, personal attacks -- all the stuff that happens when most of the interaction is limited to email only. Cynbe basically completely withdrew from the code for personal reasons, and that's where I stepped in. Cynbe's being out of it forced other people to either watch the code die or step in, and in effect it made David Bonn and I and James Shields and others pick up the ball and run with it. Bruce King]
 * I don't know if there is anything else extant about this on the web. Rpresser (talk) 21:05, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Can't help but hope not :) Hue White (talk) 21:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I wasn't involved in the incident (it was mostly before my time), but I do recall that it spawned the creation of the Bunny Shit Filter (commonly referred to as the Bunny Filter, implemented by CrT as the fakeFullCase function). Some people tended to type in all-caps, even when they were obviously capable of using lowercase, and the Bunny Filter intelligently changed their text to lowercase (except after a period/question mark/exclamation mark and standalone "I" character). It took effect upon saving if a particular uppercase threshold was met (number of characters -- typically one lowercase character was enough to avoid it). --Goldfndr (talk) 06:59, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The link to retroarchive appears to be broken, Goldfndr. Hue White (talk) 17:48, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed, thanks!--Goldfndr (talk) 09:09, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:CitadelBBSwindow.litlnemo.png
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BetacommandBot (talk) 20:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Podcast interview
Art Cancro of Citadel was interviewed on podcast FLOSS Weekly, episode 209, 2012-05-02 (MP3). Perhaps this can used as a source? --Mortense (talk) 11:12, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

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