Talk:City College of New York/Archives/2015

Untitled
I removed the offending writing. The writing looks as if a shill deliberately wrote about the Wiki entry on CCNY in awful English to embarrass the College.Iss246 (talk) 04:47, 3 June 2009 (UTC) Shouldn't notable alumni have their own page?, We're adding new non-written notable alumni who graduate from Cuny each day.

History
"City College was originally founded as the Free Academy of the City of New York in 1847 by Townsend Harris, a combination prep school and college, to provide children of the poor, and immigrants also, access to free higher education based on academic merit and other significant criteria."

Weasel word alert: "and other significant criteria" is impossibly vague. Besides, it is untrue. There were no "other significant criteria," and inserting that phrase misleadingly suggests that applicants who lacked academic merit were nonetheless admitted; they were not. I suspect that whoever inserted the misleading phrase sought to fabricate a precedent for open admissions, when no such precedent existed. 70.23.199.239 22:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

"Charging Admissions"
Is "charging admissions" really correct? Shouldn't we say that CCNY began charging for admission or charging tuition? "Charging admissions" makes it sound like a movie, not a college. Rlquall 02:32, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

what is the rank of college?
hey guys help me out telling me about the rank of this university. thanx johny

I graduated from it. There're several good parts & several bad. The good parts: School of Engineering & School of Architecture (I consider both stemming from common root - science/engineering), Dept. of Theoretical Physics but not other departments within science (as long as Kaku - Nobel Prize winner is running it, this dept is good), Environmental & Transportation stuff. School of Engineering produced extremely famous people (give you one name, as I am too busy to write lengthy opuses: Andy Grove, real name Andras Graaf: founder/CEO of Intel Corporation!!), a couple Astronauts, CEO's (Keyspan Energy), other parts of College produced certain politicians (Colin Powell) & more or less famous folks but I humbly believe Liberal Arts-related departments lag behing Engr. School. These few departments sre strong, rest of college is not as advanced. They will break your bones & brains before you graduate from Engr. School as its professors, while often not native English speakers, are impressive. This is not Ivy League and in fact it is not even a negative, b/c Ivy League is composed of Universities having little todo with Engineering and/or grades inflated proportionally to your parents sending money to those schools, it lacks the aura os "eliteness" BUT if you want to eb an engineer & posses sufficient IQ level, it is better than any elite Ivy league pomous full-0of-hot air school including Columbia minutes away by train. On the other hand, if you wish to become a Talking Head, Fortune500 exec, a POLITICIAN (!), a LAWYER (!), English, History. etc. majors - it's average & city environment around it is not particularly fond of "eliteness". You will know what I mean if you spend time in the "neighborhood". School of Engineering & 4-6 other divisions are however strong and worth the difficulties you will encounter going thru 4 years, in the neighborhood :), and train station is next to it in (City car parking is extremely limited, anyway). One special characteristic of CCNY is it's some of USA's MOST diverse schools with enormous foreign-born student population, I would call it "immigrant" school, but fear not, not everyone is an immigrant. In the past they were North/West Europeans, then East Europeans specifically Jews (including Intel's founder/President), then South American and Asian; currently reflecting global trend Electrical & COmputer dept's are heavily Asian (incl. Professors). I found it very comfortable, but depends on personality. I actually speak 2 languages & understand 3 so like fish in water.

Nobel Laureates
Sorry, but UC Berkeley is a public uni and I'm almost sure that is has produced more Nobel laureates than City. I wish someone would check that.


 * City College is talking about alumni who went on to win the Nobel Prize. UC Berkeley has an impressive list of scholars and faculty who won, but I am not sure about the number of alumni. City College has claimed this for many decades. One should decisively investigate. But here's a link to UCB "scholars" (faculty and researchers) who won the Nobel Prize, which is indeed impressive. -- Wikiklrsc 18:36, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I think City College is talking about people who did their undergraduate studies and graduated from City College and went on to get a Nobel Prize. I don't think they count people who did their Ph.D. at a university. I found a list of UC Berkeley Nobel Prize winners which is quite comprehensive, and would seem to have more alumni than City College, who won the Nobel Prize, but not all of whom did their undergraduate degree at UC Berkeley. List_of_Nobel_laureates_associated_with_UC_Berkeley -- Wikiklrsc 18:55, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


 * The undergraduate programs at Berkeley and CCNY have each graduated nine Nobel Laureates as of early 2006. CCNY has an edge, though, because two other laureates studied there for part of their undergraduate careers: Julian Schwinger (Physics 1965), who transferred to Columbia; and Henry Kissinger (Peace 1973), who transferred to Harvard.

Well that should be reflected in the article then, shouldn't it?


 * Surely, as time permits. We're all volunteers ! Have a look at this Wikipedia article (which may or may not be accurate or complete) which seems to address some points you raised:


 * Nobel Prize laureates by university affiliation


 * Wikiklrsc 02:33, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Le Mot Juste
Even today, after three decades of relative mediocrity... Is mediocrity le mot juste here? Firstly it strains the objectivity, and secondly CCNY's recent status is, unfortunately, somewhat below mediocre.


 * I didn't write it. I just don't know. The statement has a perceptual essence of fact in it. There are some really great and famous professors still there from many decades ago. CCNY is just not the same place it was many decades ago when the best and the brightest went there in lieu of ivy league colleges. The perception of the institution as a whole, I don't know. I do know it is trying to bounce back. They are building a dormitory -- the first one ever at CCNY. They have an honours college within CCNY. Being a special public "for all" college, its student population by-and-large follows the trend of the current minority populations in greater New York City. Some students do come from out of state, and from abroad, but they are not seemingly in very large numbers, at least at the undergraduate level, currently. -- Wikiklrsc 02:49, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes but mediocre? As I said I don't think CCNY or CUNY as a whole has yet "bounced back" to mediocre.

Why not soften that? "After three decades of controversy concerning its academic standards" would be less judgmental.


 * How do soften the truth? How do you talk about standards without being judgmental? You can't.


 * CCNY was, until its 1965 introduction of "remedial education," the nation's finest undergraduate institution, private or public, in terms of its admissions and graduations requirements, and thus the brilliance of its students. Since its 1970 introduction, in response to threats of racist violence, of "open admissions" (the standard of being able to "fog up a mirror"), CCNY has been a mockery of its prior greatness. A sterling exception is its School of Engineering, which did not water down its standards. Otherwise, CCNY does not deserve to be accredited as an institution of higher education. I invite all who are interested in City's history to read James Traub's City on a Hill ... and weep.
 * 70.23.199.239 22:47, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I SECOND THAT: SCHOOL OF ENGINEERING IS ONE BRIGHT EXCEPTION, NEVER SUBSTANDARD IN ANY HISTORICAL ERA. SOME GREAT PEOPLE GRADUATED FROM IT (INTEL FOUNDER/PRESIDENT AS ONE EXAMPLE). Four or 5 other departments are also great (Architecture, Theoretical Physics, etc.). Rest of college is not so great. Reason is b/c racist issues never spread to Engineering school b/c folks who participate in nonsense don't apply for Engineering majors, actually. They go into Politics, History, and such. So School of Engineering did not suffer due to influx of certain kind of people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.185.228.18 (talk) 00:27, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Dormitory at the college
Actually this is the second dormitory at city college. the first one closed in the 1950's (it was off campus housing)   64.131.207.37 08:02, 22 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, yes, but this one is the first one built exclusively from the ground up as a dormitory, and on campus. The Hebrew Orphan Asylum across from CCNY was originally just that, The Hebrew Orphan Asylum, unaffiliated with CCNY, but later housed "Army Hall" where the large ROTC classes, etc. were held. Then for a some years it may have housed some rooms for students. Then it was demolished. To wit: "Designed by William H. Hume. Erected 1884 as new home of Hebrew Orphan Asylum (HOA). When the HOA closed, the building was used by City College to house members of the U. S. Armed Forces assigned to the Army Specialized Training Program (ASTP). From 1946-1955, it provided dormitory, library and classroom space to the college. Demolished 1955/6." --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 16:20, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Rockefeller & CCNY
An anonymous contributor put these statements in the article, which were unverifiable. Tuition only started after Rockefeller was out of office. He was governor until 1973 and tuition started being charged in 1976. And the "umbrella" university, CUNY, was founded in 1961. Something doesn't seem to add up. The original statement by the contributor was:


 * There had been a desire to create a "university" umbrella for the various city run colleges which had been operating as extensions of The City College. Governor Nelson Rockefeller agreed to university status on condition that the colleges charge tuition.  Up until that point, New York city's public colleges had always been free.

If anyone can verify this please showing citations or some backing information, then re-insert it. Thanks. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 15:56, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Good edit. The original post was not correct. CUNY began long before imposition of tuition, which I believe was in 1976 or perhaps even later. Thanks. -- Fred Sherman


 * Thanks, Fred. I was really confused on understanding the addition to the article ! Best Regards. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 15:42, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

"Fictional" alumni / students of CCNY
I wonder if this category "Fictional" (students/alumni/etc.) that someone started recently, really works in this article. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 19:16, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

"flagship campus"
I still think that's POV unless it's cited somewhere. Did Princeton Review or Kaplan call it that? Or a news article about CCNY? Wl219 02:59, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

You're right. When "CUNY" was founded in 1961, CCNY was its flagship college, but the school lost that status when CUNY gutted its academic standards between 1965 and 1970. 70.23.199.239 06:07, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Point Shaving
It seems a bit off -- and honestly, perhaps even biased -- to have a mention of CCNY being "well-known" for their dual NCAA/NIT championships in 1950, yet no mention whatsoever of the arguably more well-known point-shaving scandal which involved members of that very team and which immediately thereafter led to CCNY's departure from major college athletics. Unfortunately, I'm not well-versed enough in the details of that incident to feel comfortable incorporating it into the article, but hopefully someone is. JFMorse 14:39, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I started a little bit of it, with a link to an ESPN.com article. If there are people who know more, I hope someone can add more details, because it was a huge deal. Benuski 17:04, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

In response to your talk page comment at CCNY CCNY Point Shaving Scandal UnclePaco 09:31, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Prestigious scholarships section
What I am concerned about it that the list might be incomplete. Surely, not only recent graduates have won such scholarships ? It looks lop-sided. Any ideas ? --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 13:25, 8 May 2007 (UTC) (talk) --64.131.162.152 (talk) 21:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)--64.131.162.152 (talk) 21:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)--64.131.162.152 (talk) 21:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Academic programs & curriculum
This article seems to be very heavy on history and very light on the current academic programs and majors offered by the school. Can someone who knows a lot about CCNY improve this please? -- Eastlaw  talk ⁄ contribs 06:29, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree with you. I also underline that any additions regarding current academic programs should come without deleting material regarding the College's remarkable history.Iss246 (talk) 15:19, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

External links section
The current "External links" section is ridiculously out of hand. Our governing policies are WP:EL and WP:NOTDIR and to bring this article in line with those policies and other articles this section needs to be drastically trimmed. I attempted to do so but was reverted so I am initiating discussion. This is such a clear-cut case, however, that if there is not further discussion I will re-remove most of the links. ElKevbo (talk) 15:11, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

The external links section is largely not a list or repository "of loosely associated topics such as (but not limited to) quotations, aphorisms, or persons (real or fictional)." The items listed are largely related to the history of the City College. The list includes information that is "accurate and on-topic" but not in copyright violation. The links are non-redundant. They do not include social networking sites.

I am in favor of removing the athletics link because athletics is peripheral to education. I also favor removing the Andew Grove video on the bottom, and incorporating it into the footnotes bearing on the engineering school.

I am going to work on this. I think a wholesale chopping off of the links will diminish the entry.Iss246 (talk) 15:36, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * At best, some of the links would be valuable as references if they were actually used as such. But I encourage you to reread the policies above, especially WP:EL, and compare this article with other high-quality college and university articles.  It might also be worth looking at our guidelines for college and university articles.
 * Finally, while I have some sympathy with your argument regarding athletics there is clearly very widespread consensus that athletics are a significant part of American colleges and universities. So we definitely should have a link and discussion of athletics in this and nearly every other college and university article.  ElKevbo (talk) 18:32, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

I read the guidelines. I just fixed the title of a link to show it covers CCNY and the neighborhood surrounding the College. I also removed a dead link and a link that is peripherally relevant. The links that remain are relevant to CCNY as per the guidelines.Iss246 (talk) 20:57, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Does CCNY require more disambiguation?
I just typed CCNY into Google and got several hits unrelated to the college:

Computer Connection of Central New York - CCNY www.ccny.com

Community Church Of New York 40 East 35th Street - New York, NY 10016 Tel: 212.683.4988 - Email: info@ccny.org www.ccny.org

CCNY | The Camera Club of New York One of New York’s oldest not-for-profit arts organizations, the Camera Club of New York (CCNY) is a workspace for photographers and a hub for the photo community ... cameraclubny.org

etc.

71.109.157.189 (talk) 00:16, 23 April 2011 (UTC)